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      05-28-2020, 04:56 PM   #1629
Moflow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by super51fan View Post
That really isn't a good way to think about it though. Not only 370z is rated at the crank where as the Supra/other BMWs are underrated, that is just peak power and not power under the curve. Also the 4 cylinder Supra makes a lot more torque and weighs less than the 370z. This is why they the 4 cylinder Supra and 370z have similar 0-60 times and quarter mile times. Not that is matters but the 4 cylinder Supra has a lot better fuel economy as well.

So in real world applications the argument is actually just the cost of the nicer interior for $10,000.
Ehhh, the 4-banger in the Supra is likely underrated and the 3.7 in the Z is probably over rated, but we're talking 75 horsepower here, not like 15-25. I'm sure they have very similar acceleration numbers, but i'm guessing most of that comes down to transmission and the ZF 8-speed being god tier as far as autos go.

And quite frankly if you have two cars with identical acceleration numbers, i'd almost always rather have the one that shifts slower, as you know its pulling harder IN GEAR than the car that's making up time by shifting faster (that and i've never owned an automatic and don't intend to start any time soon.)

I'm not saying the Supra is a bad value. I'm saying for people who just want the best driving experience and don't have a lot of money to spend, taking a long hard look at a Z might be a wise move.
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      05-28-2020, 05:40 PM   #1630
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moflow View Post
Ehhh, the 4-banger in the Supra is likely underrated and the 3.7 in the Z is probably over rated, but we're talking 75 horsepower here, not like 15-25. I'm sure they have very similar acceleration numbers, but i'm guessing most of that comes down to transmission and the ZF 8-speed being god tier as far as autos go.

And quite frankly if you have two cars with identical acceleration numbers, i'd almost always rather have the one that shifts slower, as you know its pulling harder IN GEAR than the car that's making up time by shifting faster (that and i've never owned an automatic and don't intend to start any time soon.)

I'm not saying the Supra is a bad value. I'm saying for people who just want the best driving experience and don't have a lot of money to spend, taking a long hard look at a Z might be a wise move.
75 peak horsepower. Keyword is peak. Peak is important.

2.0 Supra makes more power than the 370z until roughly 5500-6000 rpm and makes more torque throughout the powerband. IN GEAR or not, the Supra pulls way harder down low at the RPMs you use the most thus feeling faster.

Of course the ZF8 is to credit for this. But the 370Z also has abysmal gearing that only makes the car fun on a track at redline.

I truly donít think 2.0 Supra is a good value either but my 6MT G37 was the most boring car I ever owned and was only a good driving experience on longer road trips which I donít think the 370z is as refined in that category.
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      05-28-2020, 09:02 PM   #1631
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No fucking way i'd take 370Z over a 2T Supra, you'd be stark raving mad unless the $$$ broke the bank.
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      05-29-2020, 07:58 AM   #1632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by super51fan View Post
I truly don’t think 2.0 Supra is a good value either but my 6MT G37 was the most boring car I ever owned and was only a good driving experience on longer road trips which I don’t think the 370z is as refined in that category.
I don't understand this sentiment at all. We are living in an era where a loaded Subaru WRX STI (still rocking 2004 tech) comes in over $40k, a Golf R (GTI with a hp bump and Haldex AWD) has a MSRP of $41k, and a FWD Civic Type R is $37k (extremely shoddy build quality). A BMW built RWD sports coupe in the same price ballpark as these sport compact cars based of entry level compact vehicles is a fantastic value.
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      05-29-2020, 08:01 AM   #1633
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Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
I don't understand this sentiment at all. We are living in an era where a loaded Subaru WRX STI still rocking 2004 tech comes in over $40k, a Golf R has a MSRP of $41k, and a FWD Civic Type R is $37k (extremely shoddy build quality). A BMW built RWD sports coupe in the same price ballpark as these sport compact cars based of entry level compact vehicles is a fantastic value.
I say that because you get so much more by paying $8k more to get the 3.0. And just because I don't think it is a good value, doesn't mean I don't see why someone would buy one.

Last edited by super51fan; 05-29-2020 at 08:14 AM..
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      05-29-2020, 09:44 AM   #1634
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Quote:
Originally Posted by super51fan View Post
I say that because you get so much more by paying $8k more to get the 3.0. And just because I don't think it is a good value, doesn't mean I don't see why someone would buy one.
Supra premium is what 55$k with some options
There's exist a much better BMW sports coupe with a much superior inline 6 for a few grand more and it comes in manual
M2 comp
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      05-29-2020, 10:01 AM   #1635
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Originally Posted by pikkagtr View Post
Supra premium is what 55$k with some options
There's exist a much better BMW sports coupe with a much superior inline 6 for a few grand more and it comes in manual
M2 comp
We will agree to disagree on which car is better
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      05-29-2020, 02:58 PM   #1636
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I'm shocked how many dealers are still asking well over MSRP for the 2020 Supra. A quick search of Autotrader shows more than 200 of them across country for sale under MSRP by thousands.
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      05-29-2020, 05:01 PM   #1637
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Quote:
Originally Posted by super51fan View Post
75 peak horsepower. Keyword is peak. Peak is important.

2.0 Supra makes more power than the 370z until roughly 5500-6000 rpm and makes more torque throughout the powerband. IN GEAR or not, the Supra pulls way harder down low at the RPMs you use the most thus feeling faster.
I get that it has more torque, I just don't think you're correct about area under the curve (not that either of us could verify without back to back dyno runs on the same day, along with a bunch of math.) If we assume you're correct and the Z makes less power below 5500 RPM, you've still got 2000 RPM to work with between 5500 RPM and the Z's 7500 RPM redline. If you shift at redline, the Z drops from 7500 RPM to about 6000 RPM, at which point the car is still making more horsepower than the Supra would be at peak power. So while overall area under the curve may go either way, the area under the curve that actually matters during high performance driving is MUCH bigger on the Z car.

That said, between the transmission, the better torque and the lower peak power RPM, I'm sure the Supra would feel faster in day to day driving. But if you're driving the cars hard, the Z is going to pull harder in gear.

Obviously everyone drives differently and its totally fine to prefer one type of powerband over another. My personal preference when it comes to performance cars is to always place some sort of a premium on high RPM power, as I find that to be the most exciting part of the powerband. I also would never buy a supra by virtue of transmission. But hey, I could've bought a 370Z and I didn't even consider it for a second, so its not like you're totally wrong here either.
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