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      03-20-2021, 08:20 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adhrp View Post
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Originally Posted by heifetz17 View Post
ZF undoubtedly makes a better transmission than GM, but if you think BMW doesn't have a history of transmission problems spanning from the 90's all the way into the 2000's you're sorely mistaken.
I am sure BMW must have had trans problems in the past, but that is not a BMW issue, it is a trans manufacturer issue. Doesn't necessarily extrapolate to the newer ZF transmissions just because they are in a BMW.
No it's not a manufacturer issue, it's a lifetime fluid issue. It only ever started when the lifetime fluid recommendation came out. All I'm saying is when the actual manufacturer of the transmission says to service the fluid you can't expect good long term service never changing it just because BMW says you don't have to. There's plenty of ZF transmission problems in BMW as well, it's just more comments with the GM's as they're a lower quality trans.
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      03-20-2021, 06:01 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by heifetz17 View Post
No it's not a manufacturer issue, it's a lifetime fluid issue. It only ever started when the lifetime fluid recommendation came out. All I'm saying is when the actual manufacturer of the transmission says to service the fluid you can't expect good long term service never changing it just because BMW says you don't have to. There's plenty of ZF transmission problems in BMW as well, it's just more comments with the GM's as they're a lower quality trans.
With a trans fluid change how long do you expect your auto transmission to last? 200k miles? 300k miles? There are already plenty of examples on the forums with folks close to 200k miles without an ATF change and smooth shifting transmissions. Is an ATF change going to drastically improve service life?
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      03-20-2021, 08:55 PM   #47
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Interesting thread. Lifetime or not lifetime... that is the question.
ZF fluid is expensive like crazy, and I am glad that Liquimoly came with an alternative.
I too do not believe in lifetime fluids and I like driving my BMWs well past 200k miles.
I also bring my car to the track so fluid change for me.

I understand that some people might not want to spend the money to get the fluid replaced or might be comforted by BMW promises of lifetime of transmission happiness.
At the end, we all do what makes sense for ourselves.
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      03-21-2021, 06:52 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by frchdragon View Post
Interesting thread. Lifetime or not lifetime... that is the question.
ZF fluid is expensive like crazy, and I am glad that Liquimoly came with an alternative.
I too do not believe in lifetime fluids and I like driving my BMWs well past 200k miles.
I also bring my car to the track so fluid change for me.

I understand that some people might not want to spend the money to get the fluid replaced or might be comforted by BMW promises of lifetime of transmission happiness.
At the end, we all do what makes sense for ourselves.
I bought the ZF automatic transmission service kit from FCP Euro (which was much cheaper than Genuine BMW labeled). With the FCP replacement warranty i can service my AT as often as I wish and never pay for parts again.
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      04-02-2021, 03:41 AM   #49
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Finally changed the trans fluid on my ‘14 640i gran coupe three weeks ago with the FCP Euro Kit. 69,000 miles.

When the mechanic changed the fluid, it looked clear and clean with no metal or clutch material.

The first few days after the change, it did shift somewhat odd. So, after driving it for a few long highway drive cycles, I re-flashed XHP Stage 4. Ever since, it shifts beautifully as it did prior to the change.
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      04-02-2021, 07:50 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Wanwansuii View Post
Finally changed the trans fluid on my '14 640i gran coupe three weeks ago with the FCP Euro Kit. 69,000 miles.

When the mechanic changed the fluid, it looked clear and clean with no metal or clutch material.

The first few days after the change, it did shift somewhat odd. So, after driving it for a few long highway drive cycles, I re-flashed XHP Stage 4. Ever since, it shifts beautifully as it did prior to the change.
Good stuff. I don't have the cajones to flash my ZF. Too worried about longevity. Would love the Gear indicator display when in D that XHP offers. Oh well!

I've had zero issues since my drain and fill at $112K.
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      04-02-2021, 08:17 AM   #51
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OP, did you ever get your analysis back from Blackstone? I'm really interested to see what it shows.

On the 'lifetime' issue...

1994 Honda Accord 2.2L 4AT 160k
1996 Chevrolet S10 4.3L 4AT 106k
1997 Buick LeSabre 3.8L 4AT 177k
2008 Chevrolet Malibu 3.6L 6AT 103k
2010 Chevrolet HHR 2.2L 4AT 70k
2012 Nissan Maxima 3.5L CVT 115k
2017 Chevrolet Equinox 2.2L 6AT 40k

And now, 2017 BMW 330i 2.0L 8AT 34k, transmission untouched as of yet. Except for the S10, don't have any of the above any more.

But all of the above, I have serviced the transmission on, some of them many times. Up until the 2008 Malibu, all recommended the transmission fluid and filter be changed every 40k miles or so. Starting with the Malibu, the recommendation was 100k miles, or never ('lifetime'). Obviously the CVT is a different animal, but with all of them, I noticed a tangible improvement in transmission operation and shift quality after the service, even when it was well before the recommended interval. I typically perform it every 40-50k miles. And, honestly, the improvement was identical in all of them regardless of the year, number of gears, or how long the manufacturer recommended I do it.

Blackstone explains (in a previous post) how the lifetime fluid concept works, and that essentially it is a low wear hydraulic fluid. Again, the CVT is likely not in that category, but all the rest of them are simple hydraulic devices as they describe. Particularly the case in the older ones.

So why the change? What happened a decade ago to make them suddenly less necessary to maintain regularly? They certainly aren't simpler than the four speeds from the 90s.

Not trying to start, or add to the debate, but honestly just curious. I'm currently on the changing it anyway bandwagon, but if it's not necessary, that would be great too.
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      04-02-2021, 08:32 AM   #52
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No word yet from Blackstone. Little concerned that USPS might have chucked my container - I dropped it in the package delivery cart they told me to.

I'll prolly call Blackstone to see if they've received.
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      04-02-2021, 07:58 PM   #53
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Quote:
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Good stuff. I don't have the cajones to flash my ZF. Too worried about longevity. Would love the Gear indicator display when in D that XHP offers. Oh well!

I've had zero issues since my drain and fill at $112K.
Well, if it makes anyone comfortable, I had XHP stage 3 downloaded for 5,000 miles before I did the fluid change. When the fluid was changed, there was no metal or clutch material in the fluid; it was also still the same original color.
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      04-02-2021, 08:16 PM   #54
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I changed my fluid as 98k with no issues. Changing the fluid makes a good shifting transmission into a better one.
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      04-03-2021, 02:49 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adhrp View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by heifetz17 View Post
No it's not a manufacturer issue, it's a lifetime fluid issue. It only ever started when the lifetime fluid recommendation came out. All I'm saying is when the actual manufacturer of the transmission says to service the fluid you can't expect good long term service never changing it just because BMW says you don't have to. There's plenty of ZF transmission problems in BMW as well, it's just more comments with the GM's as they're a lower quality trans.
With a trans fluid change how long do you expect your auto transmission to last? 200k miles? 300k miles? There are already plenty of examples on the forums with folks close to 200k miles without an ATF change and smooth shifting transmissions. Is an ATF change going to drastically improve service life?
There's other variables of course, but the short answer is yes. I've seen an auto fail at 98k and the fluid was black as night, and I've seen an auto still going at 360k after regular fluid changes every 60k.

You're absolutely correct that you may be able to push 200k on the original fluid. But if you drive hard or want to approach 300k or beyond you're on very borrowed time.

I serviced mine at 69k and the fluid was already very dark. I'd hate to see what it looked like as well as the magnets at 169k if it even went that far.
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      04-04-2021, 07:13 PM   #56
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I changed my 435i's tranny oil at 70,000kms because the transmission pan had a leak - So I thought may as well change the oil too.
Didn't have an issue with any slippage, in fact, it felt smoother during upshifts and downshifts.
I think the key is to take it to a shop that knows BMW's.
Sold my 435 for a 440 and I'll be doing the exact same thing to it..
Just my opinion
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      04-06-2021, 12:58 PM   #57
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So, the main outcome after almost all comments is it was good shifting before a change, it is still good in shifting after))).

Mine has 83,000 mi. Original fluid. And might live there for times.
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      04-06-2021, 01:57 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heifetz17 View Post
There's other variables of course, but the short answer is yes. I've seen an auto fail at 98k and the fluid was black as night, and I've seen an auto still going at 360k after regular fluid changes every 60k.

You're absolutely correct that you may be able to push 200k on the original fluid. But if you drive hard or want to approach 300k or beyond you're on very borrowed time.

I serviced mine at 69k and the fluid was already very dark. I'd hate to see what it looked like as well as the magnets at 169k if it even went that far.
Speaking for myself: My goal for my auto trans is 200k. If it reaches that, I will consider its duty done. If it goes beyond that, bonus. If it dies, I can get a used one installed for around $2k and that will last another 70-100k miles or more. At that point, the car with 300k miles will surely have other components failing or interior cracking/sagging, etc., so it'll be retired. Now contrast this with the cost for 4-5 ATF changes with the proper fill procedure, fluid, etc., within the same timespan/mileage and you are at (or above) the same level of expense. Not to mention the hassle of getting it serviced 4-5x and the inherent risk that is posed every time you touch the transmission assembly.

Now this is assuming you keep the car for 200-300k miles. If you don't, then the financial equation for doing ATF changes is even poorer.
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      04-07-2021, 07:42 PM   #59
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I've got just under 60k on my 435i. I noticed the trans hangs in gear when it's cold out. This is when the temp is 60 and below in South Florida. I start the car and wait about 30 secs before I drive off. I leave it in comfort mode and just pull straight of my driveway. The first shift always hangs around 4k before shifting into 2nd and so forth. Wonder is a drain fill will help.
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      04-07-2021, 08:04 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Randy Johnson View Post
I've got just under 60k on my 435i. I noticed the trans hangs in gear when it's cold out. This is when the temp is 60 and below in South Florida. I start the car and wait about 30 secs before I drive off. I leave it in comfort mode and just pull straight of my driveway. The first shift always hangs around 4k before shifting into 2nd and so forth. Wonder is a drain fill will help.
Certainly wouldn’t hurt, but I’m not sure that alone would fix it. Do you have a scanner to see if there are any codes stored?
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      04-07-2021, 10:43 PM   #61
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I've got just under 60k on my 435i. I noticed the trans hangs in gear when it's cold out. This is when the temp is 60 and below in South Florida. I start the car and wait about 30 secs before I drive off. I leave it in comfort mode and just pull straight of my driveway. The first shift always hangs around 4k before shifting into 2nd and so forth. Wonder is a drain fill will help.
The cold 1-2 shift is common and not really an issue, just do a google search on it. 4k is really high though, why are you even revving to 4k cold? it would normally shift 2-2.5k max accelerating gently in comfort.
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      04-08-2021, 12:56 AM   #62
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Gareth pretty much reaffirmed everything I said earlier. Err on the side of caution with maintenance, after all it does use friction and pressure to operate.

Although regardless, a very robust transmission

Last edited by 328iX; 04-08-2021 at 01:10 AM..
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      04-08-2021, 11:17 AM   #63
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About to have my 3rd 8at pan/filter and fluid replacement in 9 months. The pan keeps leaking again after a month. I suspect the shop isn't torquing the bolts to spec or using the appropriate procedure.

I could be a case study for new fluid performance at this point, because virtually 100% of the factory fill has been exchanged with Lifeguard over the last 3 filter/pan attempts.

It doesn't shift any differently than the factory fill. First gear still hangs/jerks when cold on the first shift. Butter after that.
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      04-08-2021, 08:27 PM   #64
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If your fluid is still good - change it at 50,000 miles.
If your fluid is bad - leave it.
ZF recommend every 50k.. I would listen to the manufacturer.
You're meant to change the oil while it's still good

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      04-09-2021, 10:07 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZoranTerzic View Post
If your fluid is still good - change it at 50,000 miles.
If your fluid is bad - leave it.
ZF recommend every 50k.. I would listen to the manufacturer.
You're meant to change the oil while it's still good
Works for me, I was going to wait until 60k but 40-50k is what I’ve always done, so why change now? I always love the way they drive after a change, feels new again.

This thread reminded me of a guy I knew in high school, he had an old Buick Century with a four speed auto that was formerly his grandma’s. She didn’t even know there was fluid in the transmission. By the time he got it from her, it had already rolled the sixth digit twice, he managed to roll it over a third time.

It still drove somehow, what was left in the transmission ended up black and thick as tar. Most of the gears worked, but you never really knew when or how hard it would shift. After the 300k mark, it stopped shifting into fourth gear on its own. After that, it was kind of a running game trying to figure out what would finally get it to kick over into fourth gear. For a while, jiggling the shifter around in the steering column would get it to shift after a bit. After a few more months, that stopped working reliably. After that, he got it in his mind that doing that while honking the horn would sometimes force a shift out of it. Not sure if it was really related or not, but it did sometimes work.

Car had some serious electrical issues...

He gave it away to a local kid for a project car when he went off to college, that guy dropped the pan and flushed the sludge out thinking he was doing a good thing. Car never moved again until it was hauled off for scrap.

Probably why I stay regular with that sort of thing, I keep picturing that guy rolling down the road at 4000 rpm honking nonstop at absolutely nothing.
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      04-09-2021, 09:58 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by auburnf30x View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZoranTerzic View Post
If your fluid is still good - change it at 50,000 miles.
If your fluid is bad - leave it.
ZF recommend every 50k.. I would listen to the manufacturer.
You're meant to change the oil while it's still good
Works for me, I was going to wait until 60k but 40-50k is what I’ve always done, so why change now? I always love the way they drive after a change, feels new again.

This thread reminded me of a guy I knew in high school, he had an old Buick Century with a four speed auto that was formerly his grandma’s. She didn’t even know there was fluid in the transmission. By the time he got it from her, it had already rolled the sixth digit twice, he managed to roll it over a third time.

It still drove somehow, what was left in the transmission ended up black and thick as tar. Most of the gears worked, but you never really knew when or how hard it would shift. After the 300k mark, it stopped shifting into fourth gear on its own. After that, it was kind of a running game trying to figure out what would finally get it to kick over into fourth gear. For a while, jiggling the shifter around in the steering column would get it to shift after a bit. After a few more months, that stopped working reliably. After that, he got it in his mind that doing that while honking the horn would sometimes force a shift out of it. Not sure if it was really related or not, but it did sometimes work.

Car had some serious electrical issues...

He gave it away to a local kid for a project car when he went off to college, that guy dropped the pan and flushed the sludge out thinking he was doing a good thing. Car never moved again until it was hauled off for scrap.

Probably why I stay regular with that sort of thing, I keep picturing that guy rolling down the road at 4000 rpm honking nonstop at absolutely nothing.
I'm the exact same - always have been. Changed the gearbox oil at 50,000miles on my 435i and it was a noticeable difference. And I will be doing the same to my current 440i when the time comes.

Haha great story! Just reiterated everything in the video above.
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