[milanski]

F30 Fam,

It may be a heated topic, but wanted to ask the forum for advice on oil for my next oil service.

Time Mileage Oil
2017 10K-127k OEM 0W-20.
2022 127K-147K Liqui Moly BMW 5W30 Oil Change Kit from FCP (If anyone has figured out a way to ship the fluid back for a reasonable price, I would greatly appreciate the insight..lol)
2024 150K - TBD

I've been doing some research and am unsure if I should continue using 5W-30; my tuning shop says 5W-40, and OE says 0W-20 or 0W-30. The reason for initially changing from 0W-20 was mainly because of YT (Kern417(5W-40), Justin B. (5W-30), and FCP recommends 5W-30). However, after reading LINK and learning about oil properties, I'm starting to think I might have messed up. I've experienced less efficiency and a weird clicking noise from the engine within the past 10k miles. After researching, OE spec 0W-20 or 0W-30 seems more beneficial to the engine upon cold start (the most vulnerable temp to drive). The lower the startup weight, the better it is in warmer climates (I live in FL).

Excerpt from the FerrariChat (the closer you are to 10 at start up the better)

Oil type.. Thickness at 75 F (startup) ..Thickness at 212 F

Straight 30..........250....................10
10W-30...............100....................10
0W-30.................40.....................10

I'm considering going back to 0W-20 or trying 0W-30. Any thoughts?

Link 1 - https://www.bimmerfest.com/threads/5.../post-12380822
Link 1.5 - https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/th...e-this.136052/
Link 2 - https://gdfdn-my.sharepoint.com/:f:/..._4gqg?e=ZIKKNa

Thanks in advance fellas!
Milan

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Q6lWx-4Ypv4?si=i35lEZ5i1Wr-hFWp" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Link 3 -

[B58]

Most with mods use 5w40. Some use 5w30. I personally have been using 0w40 since my car had 500 miles on the odometer. It’s just preference.

[Ivilla035]

Originally Posted by milanski

F30 Fam,

It may be a heated topic, but wanted to ask the forum for advice on oil for my next oil service.

Time Mileage Oil
2017 10K-127k OEM 0W-20.
2022 127K-147K Liqui Moly BMW 5W30 Oil Change Kit from FCP (If anyone has figured out a way to ship the fluid back for a reasonable price, I would greatly appreciate the insight..lol)
2024 150K - TBD

I've been doing some research and am unsure if I should continue using 5W-30; my tuning shop says 5W-40, and OE says 0W-20 or 0W-30. The reason for initially changing from 0W-20 was mainly because of YT (Kern417(5W-40), Justin B. (5W-30), and FCP recommends 5W-30). However, after reading LINK and learning about oil properties, I'm starting to think I might have messed up. I've experienced less efficiency and a weird clicking noise from the engine within the past 10k miles. After researching, OE spec 0W-20 or 0W-30 seems more beneficial to the engine upon cold start (the most vulnerable temp to drive). The lower the startup weight, the better it is in warmer climates (I live in FL).

Excerpt from the FerrariChat (the closer you are to 10 at start up the better)

Oil type.. Thickness at 75 F (startup) ..Thickness at 212 F

Straight 30..........250....................10
10W-30...............100....................10
0W-30.................40.....................10

I'm considering going back to 0W-20 or trying 0W-30. Any thoughts?

Link 1 - https://www.bimmerfest.com/threads/5.../post-12380822
Link 1.5 - https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/th...e-this.136052/
Link 2 - https://gdfdn-my.sharepoint.com/:f:/..._4gqg?e=ZIKKNa

Thanks in advance fellas!
Milan

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Q6lWx-4Ypv4?si=i35lEZ5i1Wr-hFWp" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Link 3 -

I live in San Diego, Motul xcess gen 2 5w40

[e30 4 life!]

goshippo.com for discounted ups and fedex

[milanski]

Originally Posted by B58

Most with mods use 5w40. Some use 5w30. I personally have been using 0w40 since my car had 500 miles on the odometer. It’s just preference.

Nice! What brand are you running? Definitely leaving towards 0Ws after reading the FerrariChat Post.

Originally Posted by Ivilla035

I live in San Diego, Motul xcess gen 2 5w40

Awesome! Thanks bro!

Originally Posted by e30 4 life!

goshippo.com for discounted ups and fedex

Oh baby! Thank you so much. I’m going to check it out.

[B58]

Originally Posted by milanski

Oh baby! Thank you so much. I’m going to check it out.

I been using Amsoil 0w40.

[sspade]

40 weight!

[milanski]

sspade B58 Ok, so thinking about going 0W-40. Where are you guys buying from? FCP has 0W-30 Motul LL01FE LINK and only Racing 0W-40 Motul LINK spec'ed for my car.

[BaconDouble]

Originally Posted by milanski

sspade B58 Ok, so thinking about going 0W-40. Where are you guys buying from? FCP has 0W-30 Motul LL01FE LINK and only Racing 0W-40 Motul LINK spec'ed for my car.

I've decided to follow the LL-01 standard for my B58 gen1.
Once the free dealer oil changes were up, I started using Mobil 1 Euro 0W-40 with the LL-01 rating. It's relatively cheap and I can pick it up at any Walmart.

So far, so good. I live in an area where the weather ranges from 10-95F throughout the year. (East Coast).

[milanski]

Originally Posted by BaconDouble

I've decided to follow the LL-01 standard for my B58 gen1.
Once the free dealer oil changes were up, I started using Mobil 1 Euro 0W-40 with the LL-01 rating. It's relatively cheap and I can pick it up at any Walmart.

So far, so good. I live in an area where the weather ranges from 10-95F throughout the year. (East Coast).

Awesome! Thanks dude.

[B58]

Originally Posted by milanski

sspade B58 Ok, so thinking about going 0W-40. Where are you guys buying from? FCP has 0W-30 Motul LL01FE LINK and only Racing 0W-40 Motul LINK spec'ed for my car.

I’m a preferred member so I pay $11.89 per quart

https://www.amsoil.com/p/amsoil-sign...motor-oil-azf/

They also have the Euro oil

https://www.amsoil.com/p/amsoil-0w-4...motor-oil-efo/

If you’re looking to use the FCP life time oil change then you’re basically stuck with the limited options they offer.

[Ivilla035]

Originally Posted by milanski

F30 Fam,

It may be a heated topic, but wanted to ask the forum for advice on oil for my next oil service.

Time Mileage Oil
2017 10K-127k OEM 0W-20.
2022 127K-147K Liqui Moly BMW 5W30 Oil Change Kit from FCP (If anyone has figured out a way to ship the fluid back for a reasonable price, I would greatly appreciate the insight..lol)
2024 150K - TBD

I've been doing some research and am unsure if I should continue using 5W-30; my tuning shop says 5W-40, and OE says 0W-20 or 0W-30. The reason for initially changing from 0W-20 was mainly because of YT (Kern417(5W-40), Justin B. (5W-30), and FCP recommends 5W-30). However, after reading LINK and learning about oil properties, I'm starting to think I might have messed up. I've experienced less efficiency and a weird clicking noise from the engine within the past 10k miles. After researching, OE spec 0W-20 or 0W-30 seems more beneficial to the engine upon cold start (the most vulnerable temp to drive). The lower the startup weight, the better it is in warmer climates (I live in FL).

Excerpt from the FerrariChat (the closer you are to 10 at start up the better)

Oil type.. Thickness at 75 F (startup) ..Thickness at 212 F

Straight 30..........250....................10
10W-30...............100....................10
0W-30.................40.....................10

I'm considering going back to 0W-20 or trying 0W-30. Any thoughts?

Link 1 - https://www.bimmerfest.com/threads/5.../post-12380822
Link 1.5 - https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/th...e-this.136052/
Link 2 - https://gdfdn-my.sharepoint.com/:f:/..._4gqg?e=ZIKKNa

Thanks in advance fellas!
Milan

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Q6lWx-4Ypv4?si=i35lEZ5i1Wr-hFWp" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Link 3 -

Actually I have a question. I'm bringing my 340 back from san diego to Utah, which will get a bit cold in the 30's. Should I switch from motul 5w40 to something like mobil 1 euro 0w40? If anyone has any recommendations lmk.

[B58]

Originally Posted by Ivilla035

Actually I have a question. I'm bringing my 340 back from san diego to Utah, which will get a bit cold in the 30's. Should I switch from motul 5w40 to something like mobil 1 euro 0w40? If anyone has any recommendations lmk.

The 0W will always help in the cold.

[milanski]

Originally Posted by Ivilla035

Actually I have a question. I'm bringing my 340 back from san diego to Utah, which will get a bit cold in the 30's. Should I switch from motul 5w40 to something like mobil 1 euro 0w40? If anyone has any recommendations lmk.

From what I’ve read, you’re fine running 0W-40. I’m still trying to determine what I’m gong to do. Definitely moving from 5W back to 0W. If you haven’t read the FerrariChat post on oil. It’s pretty informative.

Also, not sure if this is helpful, but here’s a video from kern417 LINK. I rewatched it today.

B58 the idea of lifetime replacement is nice, except that I’m still sitting on 5 old oil kits. 😂

[Ivilla035]

Originally Posted by B58

The 0W will always help in the cold.

That's what I was thought. I just don't know if it's worth the switch if It's only gonna be 30 degrees.

[Ivilla035]

Originally Posted by milanski

From what I’ve read, you’re fine running 0W-40. I’m still trying to determine what I’m gong to do. Definitely moving from 5W back to 0W. If you haven’t read the FerrariChat post on oil. It’s pretty informative.

Also, not sure if this is helpful, but here’s a video from kern417 LINK. I rewatched it today.

B58 the idea of lifetime replacement is nice, except that I’m still sitting on 5 old oil kits. 😂

Yea, I've been doing motul xcess on FCP just because the additive pack seems to be much better than the liquimoly stuff. Never ran 0w40 so I'm trying to figure that out.

[milanski]

Still looking at comps for current oils approved for the B58, specifically LM BWM Approved Oil, which can also be found on FCP. Here's an XLS.

Found this blog post too, which I'm still reading through.

Outstanding questions:
1. What is the optimal Viscosity @ 212ºF (KV100) for B58s with higher milage?
2. What is the optimal HTHS @ 302ºF for our engines with higher mileage?
3. How does sulfate ash content impact our engines, or is it strictly environmental?
4. I saw some guys on the oil forum using LL04 in their cars, which looks like it's possible based on the linked screenshot of "Technically suitable engine oils for petrol engines" from SI110796(138) from 2020. Does this mean we can use any of these in our engines? Thoughts?
5. Why do you prefer 40 weight over 20 or 30? I daily and my driving style is moderate-aggressive, rarely get to 6500RPM unless I'm logging.

I've included my Blackstone report from 134k miles here.

Thanks for your insight.
Milan

Link 1 - https://gdfdn-my.sharepoint.com/:x:/...GtxPw?e=tsYx19
Link 2 - https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/th...dation.337089/
Link 3 - https://gdfdn-my.sharepoint.com/:i:/...TgHWA?e=yQ5uCB
Link 4 - https://gdfdn-my.sharepoint.com/:i:/...ujcMw?e=ldo8BL

[yupetc]

If you're in Florida as your sig says, you've no real worry about deviating from 0W oils on a brand new motor. Of all the pro's you get from 0W oil, the initial startup benefits most from the 0W, hands down. And on newer cars where wear is minimal, bearing gaps will be ideal for good oil film retention.

On used cars at 150k miles if you bearings aren't replaced, then I would opt for a 5w oil in suspicion that the gaps have wear plus some debris in the bearing babbit, B58 bearings have iRox coating on the babbit layer, so there's a lot of give for impurities and debris to embed and get cleaned out, and a heavier oil has better inertia when in motion, it'll help with cleaning a bit better. And with wear, the gaps are opened up a bit more, so 5W is better at keeping the geometry and maintaining a thicker lubrication film; although it's less at initial lubrication upon startup. However, you're seldomly dealing the same temps as folks in the north where ambient temperature gets below freezing, 0w will get you all the help you can get at warming up soon and go through lubrication channels easily. But in temperate climate zones, 5w isn't that bad at getting in and out of channels and get that startup condition as soon as possible.

Besides, B58 motors have come a long way in the game, there are plenty of temperature management features which will keep the motor extendedly warmed, quick to heat up, and consistent in running temps. Not much to worry about at all.

If I have to nit-pick about it, I'll say the latter TU and TU2 B58's do seem to have slightly bigger bearing gaps set from the factory. At least from a handful of build I've dealt so far, those dial gauges don't lie, and on brand new TU motors, I would be more settled with using 5w from the get-go.

So for your application, if the question is to choose between 0W or 5W at 150k miles, blindly without knowing how you drive, what oil temperature you're running, and power figures, I'd suggest 5W for more peace of mind protection. Whether it being 5w-30 or 5w-40 that's really up to your preference on whether you'd like more protection or better efficiency. The way I run my oils beyond 150k is I would go for 5w-30 and use MHD to tune the cooling mode at sport so it's running at around 190-195 degrees. Or if I use 5w-40, I would have MHD run my cooling at default of 210 degrees or so. This gives a good balance amongst efficiency, protection, degradation, and total life of the oil.

My opinion only.

[milanski]

Thanks yupetc. Appreciate the insight!

I've continued to dig, and I think I've landed on 0W30 Special Tech LL01FE or Synthoil Energy A40 SAE 0W-40 (LL01). FYI - Ivilla035

I saw this video tonight, and it coincided with my research. Shout out to kern417 .

Here's the updated XLS if anyone is interested in the comps.

Thanks again everyone!

Link 1 -

Link 2 - https://gdfdn-my.sharepoint.com/:x:/...GtxPw?e=tsYx19

[edycol]

Originally Posted by milanski

Thanks yupetc. Appreciate the insight!

I've continued to dig, and I think I've landed on 0W30 Special Tech LL01FE or Synthoil Energy A40 SAE 0W-40 (LL01). FYI - Ivilla035

I saw this video tonight, and it coincided with my research. Shout out to kern417 .

Here's the updated XLS if anyone is interested in the comps.

Thanks again everyone!

Link 1 -

Link 2 - https://gdfdn-my.sharepoint.com/:x:/...GtxPw?e=tsYx19

Unfortunately, I cannot unsee this video.

This guy makes a lot of assumptions and then some.

Let's start from the basics:

1. B58 can use ANY oil as long as it is not thinner than 0W20 or HTHS of 2.6mPas. Using thicker oil is not an issue to use in an engine. As he pointed out correctly, the viscosity of cold oil is much "thicker" than that of KV100. So, if the engine can survive a cold start and very often in city commute never be warmed up, it can survive KV100 of, let's say, 5W50.
2. It is not about grade but High Temperature/High Shear. You see KV100 (I explained this numerous times) is really irrelevant. WHat matters is HTHS which is as some would say "viscosity under pressure." HTHS is measured at 150c (a more common temperature around journal bearings, piston rings, etc.), and it is measured the same as winter rating 0W. However, HTHS would be very confusing to ordinary customers, so we settled at XWXX ratings. In practice, BMW (and other European manufacturers) base their approvals (MB, LL, VW) on minimum HTHS. So LL01 and LL04 are min 3.5mPas, LL01FE is min 3mPas, LL17FE is minimum 2.6mPas. Higher mPas, more protection. However, higher mPas also means more resistance, less performance, more consumption. Simple reason why BMW went from LL01 to LL01FE and then LL17FE, etc. is CAFE. I explained this in other posts, on M2 F87 forums etc. Generally, if I owned B58, I would go LL01 or LL04, as minimum HTHS of 3.5 is generally very good compromise between protection, performance and consumption. However, THIS is VERY important, HTHS is not tied to one grade. Many xW30 oils have HTHS of 3.6-3.7mPas, while some xW40 oils have HTHS of 3.6 (Mobil1 0W40). There is more to protection, like additives (ZDDP) etc.

3. He touts Liqui Moly 0W30. First off, by far, the gold standard among 0W30 oils is Castrol Edge 0W30, or as the old crowd knows, "German Castrol" or Green Castrol (the first version was green and absolutely the best thing after sliced bread). Edge 0W30 is LL01, not LL01FE. Why? Bcs. HTHS is around 3.6. It is not energy-conserving oil like that of Liqui Moly. Castrol lists Edge 0W30 as suitable for LL01FE. Why? Because LL01FE maximum HTHS can be 3.49mPas. In reality, BMW tried to get CAFE credits by slightly lowering HTHS hoping EPA would give them 1mpg credit (which they did). So, technically (and I said earlier that you can use thick oil), the engine would not know the difference between the BMW 0W30 TPT or the Liqui Moly 0W30 and Edge 0W30 until things get really hot, and one needs that extra protection.
4. The quality of oil is far from just HTHS. The question is the composition of base stocks and additives. Liqui Moly is a champion of using cheap Group III base stocks. They touted that in the '90s as the next best thing after sliced bread, the hydrocracked technology that was invented by Chevron. But, (as I know from oil testing I did for an oil company) their oils are average at best. This Liqui Moly he touts has a bit of PAO but nowhere near as Castrol (0W30 Castrol, 0W40, other Castrols are similar to Liqui Moly). How do I know that? Check the pour point of oil. The pour point does not mean anything for a cold start as cold start utilizes an oil pump. But, pour point indicates base stock composition. Lower pour point, higher % of PAO, AN or POE. PAO is really good for cold starts. So, generally, 0WXX oils have a lower pour point than 5WXX oils. But this Liqui Moly has a pour point at -45, the same as MANY 5W40 oils like Motul X-Cess 5W40, etc. What is pour point of Castrol Edge 0W30? -60c. Another big difference is evaporation loss or Noack. Liqui Moly lists it at 10%, which is max. Noack to meet MB229.6 specification. Castrol Edge 0W30? 8.3%, which is an excellent result. Even if we take other oils as a comparison, this Liqui Moly is just average. Motul X-Clean 0W30 EFE (LL04) has Pour point of -52c.

5. I said this before: Liqui Moly is an OK oil, but far from being anything special. They tout huge Made in Germany letters on the bottle, but that is about it.

6. For cold starts, 0WXX oils are not necessary until you start to talk some serious cold, -25 and lower. To simplify, if you have two oils, one 0W30 and another 5W30 and same base stock composition, 5W30 is more shear stable. It will stay longer in grade, have lower Noack. Good example is Casstrol 0W30 and 0W40. They are VERY similar oils, same base stocks, additives etc. Noack of 0W30 is 8.3%, while 0W40m is 9.1%. Or Mobil1 ESP 5W30 and 0W30 (previous versions, do not know data for new SP versions). Noack of 5W30 is 7.1& (exceptional result) and 9% for 0W30. So basically, to simplify, all things being equal (composition) the smaller the spread between XW and XX, more stable is oil. How do you make very stable, stay in grade 0W30 or 0W40 oils? Utilization of PAO,AN and POE base stocks. For example, exceptional oils would be HPL oils that have a huge amount of PAO.

This is a quick write-up. One forum member asked me to write general guidelines for oil use in BMW's, and after procrastinating for two years, I really need to jump on that.

[n55david]

Originally Posted by edycol

Unfortunately, I cannot unsee this video.

This guy makes a lot of assumptions and then some.

Let's start from the basics:

1. B58 can use ANY oil as long as it is not thinner than 0W20 or HTHS of 2.6mPas. Using thicker oil is not an issue to use in an engine. As he pointed out correctly, the viscosity of cold oil is much "thicker" than that of KV100. So, if the engine can survive a cold start and very often in city commute never be warmed up, it can survive KV100 of, let's say, 5W50.
2. It is not about grade but High Temperature/High Shear. You see KV100 (I explained this numerous times) is really irrelevant. WHat matters is HTHS which is as some would say "viscosity under pressure." HTHS is measured at 150c (a more common temperature around journal bearings, piston rings, etc.), and it is measured the same as winter rating 0W. However, HTHS would be very confusing to ordinary customers, so we settled at XWXX ratings. In practice, BMW (and other European manufacturers) base their approvals (MB, LL, VW) on minimum HTHS. So LL01 and LL04 are min 3.5mPas, LL01FE is min 3mPas, LL17FE is minimum 2.6mPas. Higher mPas, more protection. However, higher mPas also means more resistance, less performance, more consumption. Simple reason why BMW went from LL01 to LL01FE and then LL17FE, etc. is CAFE. I explained this in other posts, on M2 F87 forums etc. Generally, if I owned B58, I would go LL01 or LL04, as minimum HTHS of 3.5 is generally very good compromise between protection, performance and consumption. However, THIS is VERY important, HTHS is not tied to one grade. [...]

I stopped trying to tell people this a long time ago. Though I do use Amsoil over Castrol but hey.. I've had really good luck with it, though I prefer redline tbh.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by n55david

I stopped trying to tell people this a long time ago. Though I do use Amsoil over Castrol but hey.. I've had really good luck with it, though I prefer redline tbh.

Amsoil is good stuff, but just to be clear, most Amsoil oils are not approved.
Redline Performance series (not Professional, which is repackaged Philips66) is not approved for any of their oils.
What these companies use is "meets and exceeds" language. That is their claim that oil is meeting specification, but it is not BMW approval (Amsoil has one or two oils approved by BMW).
BMW has VERY strict oxidation requirements, and most boutique oils have bit higher oxidation, or in case of Redline, much higher due to utilization of POE. Almost all Liqui Moly oils are approved. But, approval is minimum requirement. For example, max. Noack in BMW approvals is 13%. That is very easy to achieve. Things get more complicated at 9% and lower. Redline is the champion there.
But Amsoil, Redline, and HPL have specific customers. Obtaining approvals is not their priority. This becomes an issue if warranty is in question.