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      10-18-2019, 04:04 PM   #45
Lancelot
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Just got mine fitted too, very happy with them, although only did 50km or so.

Production version is due October they said.

This one is a hybrid version as i’m running the f80 struts bar they have the additional 3 holes for this reason

Camber is set at -2.2deg
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      10-19-2019, 12:01 AM   #46
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That looks quality. Will they update the normal camber top (non PU) to also have the same top portion? Looks quite a bit beefier!
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      10-19-2019, 07:47 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jahjaman View Post
That looks quality. Will they update the normal camber top (non PU) to also have the same top portion? Looks quite a bit beefier!
It's actually beefier with the spherical bearing. It sticks up past the adjustment. It's very thick.
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      10-20-2019, 02:36 AM   #48
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Lancelot, How is the ride after installation of these camber plates? I'm in a need for camber adjustment but not in expense of comfortness. Hopefully no affect on noise level..
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      10-20-2019, 02:43 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Veketti View Post
Lancelot, How is the ride after installation of these camber plates? I'm in a need for camber adjustment but not in expense of comfortness. Hopefully no affect on noise level..
It's virtually identical to oem plates, these street camber plates are a very good option for our needs
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      11-01-2019, 06:27 PM   #50
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Looks like the street version is out of beta and released.
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      11-03-2019, 12:24 PM   #51
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Interesting design but unless I'm missing something obvious, I don't see how these new poly version camber plates can 'naturally' incorporate camber.

The larger fixed plate is bolted to the suspension turret, therefore is on a fixed plane.

The sliding plate, which incorporates the poly washer, bolts to the larger plate and is therefore only adjustable on a fixed plane ((sliding, not rotating).

The poly washer is presumably sandwiched between the top plate and the stainless steel washer (visible), which is in turn held in place by a threaded retainer (not visible, but the same approach as for the monoball versions), and therefore on a fixed plane.

The damper piston rod is bolted through the stainless steel washer, and is therefore on a fixed plane at 90° to the washer.

So, how is a change of plane (change of camber) achieved ? There's no rotating monoball so presumably it's just achieved by deformation (squashing on one hemisphere) of the poly washer causing one side to be loaded and one side to potentially be unloaded.

Thoughts ?

I'm not knocking Millway; just interested in the operation of this new design.
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      11-03-2019, 02:01 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsey View Post
Interesting design but unless I'm missing something obvious, I don't see how these new poly version camber plates can 'naturally' incorporate camber.

The larger fixed plate is bolted to the suspension turret, therefore is on a fixed plane.

The sliding plate, which incorporates the poly washer, bolts to the larger plate and is therefore only adjustable on a fixed plane ((sliding, not rotating).

The poly washer is presumably sandwiched between the top plate and the stainless steel washer (visible), which is in turn held in place by a threaded retainer (not visible, but the same approach as for the monoball versions), and therefore on a fixed plane.

The damper piston rod is bolted through the stainless steel washer, and is therefore on a fixed plane at 90° to the washer.

So, how is a change of plane (change of camber) achieved ? There's no rotating monoball so presumably it's just achieved by deformation (squashing on one hemisphere) of the poly washer causing one side to be loaded and one side to potentially be unloaded.

Thoughts ?

I'm not knocking Millway; just interested in the operation of this new design.
To my understand camber is just adjusting the distance between the two shock tower mounts. Shorter distance between the two top mounts the more camber you get. Why would you need rotation? Wouldn't that be something other than camber (toe, castor, etc, idk which one)
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      11-03-2019, 03:23 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsey View Post
So, how is a change of plane (change of camber) achieved ? There's no rotating monoball so presumably it's just achieved by deformation (squashing on one hemisphere) of the poly washer causing one side to be loaded and one side to potentially be unloaded.

Thoughts ?

I'm not knocking Millway; just interested in the operation of this new design.
The change in plane does the same thing, it just puts stress on the poly bushing/damper. That's why they aren't recommended for camber adjustment. But it works, especially if you aren't planning on adding a bunch of camber.

If you think about it, all of our bushings work the same way. Your control arm bushings are constantly experiencing forces in all directions. It's just that this load would be static.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Logicoeur View Post
To my understand camber is just adjusting the distance between the two shock tower mounts. Shorter distance between the two top mounts the more camber you get. Why would you need rotation? Wouldn't that be something other than camber (toe, castor, etc, idk which one)
He's just talking about the pivot point in the camber plate. On the bottom, the ball joint rotates on it's bearing. This needs rotation because camber changes as the strut is compressed. There's no rotation needed for the OEM strut mount, so it works great with a rubber/poly bushing. But with the camber plates, you are further rotating the angle of the strut assembly. As I said above it's static, but it does still apply a lateral load to the bushing and strut. Not ideal, but probably not a huge issue unless you're running a lot of camber.
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      11-04-2019, 08:36 AM   #54
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kern417 The thing is, they ARE recommended for camber - the markings clearly show nearly 3 neg is available. There's a lot of adjustment range in the stadium cut-out.

The poly washer is going to have to take a lot of eccentric loading as camber is increased.

I like Millway's top mount designs (simple but effective designs) and build quality but personally I'll stay with the monoball version.
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      11-04-2019, 04:02 PM   #55
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Hi Guys. I will try to answer some of your questions about the design.

The design is very similar to OE top mounts. The stack height of the damper and spring is the same as original. This is the first thing we must achieve in the design. Already there we are stuck with the fact that the OE damper top pin and thread is extremly short, the strutbar is in the way for the adjuster etc. They also need to fit with all different suspension brands.

Regarding the wrong angle of the damper when adjusting camber is already happening with the OE top mounts along the suspension travel. The cars has also different control arm length for different models and continents. Some cars come with -0,5 camber and some with -1,2 but the same top mounts. But this is not a problem because the washer is vulcanized in rubber and designed to change angle.

Our poly-washers is preloaded in the assembly so the small angle that occour at camber change is only a small amount of the preload. And unlike rubber the polyurethane we use flows sideways to equal out the force on the washer and damper. It is very similar to the discs you have in your spine. (Another great design)

The adjustment range is not 30mm for the street version as the markings show. Full range is only possible if you have the uniball version, which you can upgrade to later if desired. That is why we have full range marked. You can also do the other way and upgrade from uniball to the poly-version without buying completely new camber plates.

Our street camber plates will not replace the uniball version.

Kind regards from Sweden.
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      11-04-2019, 05:05 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsey View Post
Interesting design but unless I'm missing something obvious, I don't see how these new poly version camber plates can 'naturally' incorporate camber.

The larger fixed plate is bolted to the suspension turret, therefore is on a fixed plane.

The sliding plate, which incorporates the poly washer, bolts to the larger plate and is therefore only adjustable on a fixed plane ((sliding, not rotating).

The poly washer is presumably sandwiched between the top plate and the stainless steel washer (visible), which is in turn held in place by a threaded retainer (not visible, but the same approach as for the monoball versions), and therefore on a fixed plane.

The damper piston rod is bolted through the stainless steel washer, and is therefore on a fixed plane at 90° to the washer.

So, how is a change of plane (change of camber) achieved ? There's no rotating monoball so presumably it's just achieved by deformation (squashing on one hemisphere) of the poly washer causing one side to be loaded and one side to potentially be unloaded.

Thoughts ?

I'm not knocking Millway; just interested in the operation of this new design.
All this is very similar to guys using longer F80 LCAs, or lowering the car with a set of coilovers they all change the angle at rest; and the damper struts angle changes during suspension travel too, all the time.

So perhaps uniball is better in some aspects, but it's not a necessity since most situations we don't use this, and it comes at the expense of noise/comfort, which wasn't a tradeoff i was happy to make.

So when Samuel at millway proposed this instead of my original intention of using uniball camber plates i jumped at the opportunity

Now i'm super happy with the car's front end behavior, it's much more agile and eager to rotate thanks to the adjusted camber.
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      11-05-2019, 12:09 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel Lindkvist View Post
Hi Guys. I will try to answer some of your questions about the design.

The design is very similar to OE top mounts. The stack height of the damper and spring is the same as original. This is the first thing we must achieve in the design. Already there we are stuck with the fact that the OE damper top pin and thread is extremly short, the strutbar is in the way for the adjuster etc. They also need to fit with all different suspension brands.

Regarding the wrong angle of the damper when adjusting camber is already happening with the OE top mounts along the suspension travel. The cars has also different control arm length for different models and continents. Some cars come with -0,5 camber and some with -1,2 but the same top mounts. But this is not a problem because the washer is vulcanized in rubber and designed to change angle.

Our poly-washers is preloaded in the assembly so the small angle that occour at camber change is only a small amount of the preload. And unlike rubber the polyurethane we use flows sideways to equal out the force on the washer and damper. It is very similar to the discs you have in your spine. (Another great design)

The adjustment range is not 30mm for the street version as the markings show. Full range is only possible if you have the uniball version, which you can upgrade to later if desired. That is why we have full range marked. You can also do the other way and upgrade from uniball to the poly-version without buying completely new camber plates.

Our street camber plates will not replace the uniball version.

Kind regards from Sweden.
Samuel
Thanks for the clarification Samuel. Certainly helps to know that the different designs/constructions are for different applications.

Out of interest, what's the recommended maximum negative camber for the poly washer version ?
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      11-05-2019, 04:34 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsey View Post
Thanks for the clarification Samuel. Certainly helps to know that the different designs/constructions are for different applications.

Out of interest, what's the recommended maximum negative camber for the poly washer version ?
It sounds like it's mechanically limited by the design. The plate shows a higher range of adjustment than they allowed it go actually go. So it can't physically go past the recommended max camber.
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      11-05-2019, 04:45 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kern417 View Post
It sounds like it's mechanically limited by the design. The plate shows a higher range of adjustment than they allowed it go actually go. So it can't physically go past the recommended max camber.

Correct! They are mechanically limited to -22mm on all F-series except M2comp, M3 and M4 which is limited to -24mm.

Uniball version -27mm and -30mm.

10mm is approximately -1.0 degrees added camber.
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      11-06-2019, 05:34 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel Lindkvist View Post
Correct! They are mechanically limited to -22mm on all F-series except M2comp, M3 and M4 which is limited to -24mm.

Uniball version -27mm and -30mm.

10mm is approximately -1.0 degrees added camber.
OK, still a very useful increase in neg camber for the poly version.

Thanks.
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      11-06-2019, 07:47 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel Lindkvist View Post
Correct! They are mechanically limited to -22mm on all F-series except M2comp, M3 and M4 which is limited to -24mm.

Uniball version -27mm and -30mm.

10mm is approximately -1.0 degrees added camber.
I'm running -22mm with my uniball mounts now so the max of -22mm with the poly version is pretty good!
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      11-10-2019, 10:23 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andino View Post
I'm running -22mm with my uniball mounts now so the max of -22mm with the poly version is pretty good!
did they bolt up to your B14 coils without any issues?
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      11-11-2019, 02:26 PM   #63
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did they bolt up to your B14 coils without any issues?
Zero issues and can be done pretty quickly as well.
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