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      11-28-2014, 02:21 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paigey View Post
It's only going to be a 320-330hp from what the insider has said, not 340-360hp.
Source? Not saying you're wrong, would just like a link.
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      11-28-2014, 04:03 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahzari View Post
Source? Not saying you're wrong, would just like a link.
I don't think there are any official links yet on the B58.

The B48 is already in the 2 series AT and Mini's, and the B58 hasn't been implemented yet.

Even still, the B48 is detuned to only 235 in the above vehicles:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_B48

But sources say it'll output 260-270.
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      11-28-2014, 05:04 PM   #91
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Last 30i had 272ps I don't see anything below 275-280ps unless BMW want to go backward.
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      11-28-2014, 08:13 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwalls90 View Post
I don't think there are any official links yet on the B58.

The B48 is already in the 2 series AT and Mini's, and the B58 hasn't been implemented yet.

Even still, the B48 is detuned to only 235 in the above vehicles:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_B48

But sources say it'll output 260-270.
Fair enough. A 10% (or more) power bump for both the 4-cylinder and 6-cylinder should be nice.

I'll be interested in seeing the price bump and the options list once the MY2016 F30 comes out.
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      11-28-2014, 09:20 PM   #93
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I have seen comments that the B48 will not be in the 2016 LCI, but will be delayed until the 2017 (N20 carrying over for one more year). The B58 supposedly will be in 2016 model. Do any of our board gurus have info that this is true, or will we actually see the B48 in the 2016 model? Since the B48 is already operational in other models it seems strange that it would be delayed unless there are some production issues.
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      11-28-2014, 09:39 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahzari View Post
Source? Not saying you're wrong, would just like a link.
Here is the post.

Nothing is official yet of course, still just rumors. But I would not be optimistic that BMW will unnecessarily increase the power any more than they need to. The competition is hovering in the 330HP range.
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      11-28-2014, 09:45 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeTerp View Post
I have seen comments that the B48 will not be in the 2016 LCI, but will be delayed until the 2017 (N20 carrying over for one more year). The B58 supposedly will be in 2016 model. Do any of our board gurus have info that this is true, or will we actually see the B48 in the 2016 model? Since the B48 is already operational in other models it seems strange that it would be delayed unless there are some production issues.
This is what I said (that it would come out with the LCI) but someone else shut me down saying it was delayed until 2016.

I, too, agree that with the B48 being ready in other models, it would be silly to not introduce it with the next MY.

All I do know is that the B48 and B58 will come out at the same time, and I'd still bet it's this coming summer.
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      11-29-2014, 08:28 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahzari
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paigey View Post
It's only going to be a 320-330hp from what the insider has said, not 340-360hp.
Source? Not saying you're wrong, would just like a link.
I think 320-330 makes a lot of sense because

1) 340-360 makes the F30 only 60-80 off the F80
2)BMW has never been known to try to outgun HP ratings of other competitors. With the C400 and S4 at about 330 I doubt BMW is trying to beat these hp ratings. I surmise that they would prefer a number south of these competitors numbers
3) no one is complaining about the performance of the N55 at 300hp, I would guess 310hp. They will probably still offer PPK to get you to around 350hp
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      11-29-2014, 10:03 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerMat135 View Post
Last 30i had 272ps I don't see anything below 275-280ps unless BMW want to go backward.
The 330i was the top of the line model at that time. With the 340i sitting above now, there's no need for the 330i to outperform the old one. The 323i and 325i namesakes have gone through similar transitions from top model to lower model - the newer one does not generally sit above the past one.
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      11-29-2014, 10:12 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel
Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerMat135 View Post
Last 30i had 272ps I don't see anything below 275-280ps unless BMW want to go backward.
The 330i was the top of the line model at that time. With the 340i sitting above now, there's no need for the 330i to outperform the old one. The 323i and 325i namesakes have gone through similar transitions from top model to lower model - the newer one does not generally sit above the past one.
+1 as a general guide I would say start with the M3, deduct at least 100hp for the top line model and another (at least) 55hp for the 330i

With that I get 325 for the 340i and about 270 for the 330i.

If I use the S4 and C400 as sanity checks based on BMWs prior approach to HP ratings I think 310-325 seems reasonable to me. Besides the current N55s have been testing out the 320-335hp range with the ppk so this is already tried and tested territory. The new engines can then add a dose of fuel efficiency and a broader area under the graph to complete the picture

lol talk about guesstimating
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      11-29-2014, 11:13 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 300hp View Post
I think 320-330 makes a lot of sense because

1) 340-360 makes the F30 only 60-80 off the F80
2)BMW has never been known to try to outgun HP ratings of other competitors. With the C400 and S4 at about 330 I doubt BMW is trying to beat these hp ratings. I surmise that they would prefer a number south of these competitors numbers
3) no one is complaining about the performance of the N55 at 300hp, I would guess 310hp. They will probably still offer PPK to get you to around 350hp
Quote:
Originally Posted by 300hp View Post
+1 as a general guide I would say start with the M3, deduct at least 100hp for the top line model and another (at least) 55hp for the 330i

With that I get 325 for the 340i and about 270 for the 330i.

If I use the S4 and C400 as sanity checks based on BMWs prior approach to HP ratings I think 310-325 seems reasonable to me. Besides the current N55s have been testing out the 320-335hp range with the ppk so this is already tried and tested territory. The new engines can then add a dose of fuel efficiency and a broader area under the graph to complete the picture

lol talk about guesstimating
I agree with the above.

M3/M4 with S55 makes 430 hp.

340/440 with B58 will make 330hp.

330/430 with B48 will make 270-280hp.

320/420 with N20 will get bumped to 200-220hp. I'd also expect to see the 420 come stateside but maybe post LCI.

320/420 is going to be the new sweet spot. The N20 in the 328/428 already hits 240hp stock, and BMW won't allow the 320 and 330 to have a gap of 90hp once the 330/340 hit dealer lots. I've seen lots of 320's on the road so by opening the engine a little bit, it could help drive even more sales. Hoping the 320/420 gets the same options and packages treatment as the 328/428 instead of getting shafted like it does now, though.
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      11-29-2014, 11:20 AM   #100
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Does anyone around here know how the Bx8 series of engines will differ from the current Nxx series of engines, other than trying to guess the power ratings? I am not expecting the B58 to have more than 330 hp either because the M2 is said to have an N55 in the 370-380 range.
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      11-29-2014, 11:29 AM   #101
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Love l c I bmw.
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      11-29-2014, 11:40 AM   #102
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Um my guess is a bit higher than 330bhp as BMW seems to be taking the fight to S models etc with M performance line.

Merc are looking at 360+ BHP for new AMG sport

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/mercede...rce=newsletter

Audi S4 2015 is rumoured to be 350+ BHP

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/audi/a4...te-and-rumours

As for a PPK to reach the same output as their competitors' S and AMGSp models I would say that's not good business sense - it says subtly that your product is inferior from the outset. Maybe one for the M3/4 to compete with C63S might make sense.

As for the BHP of 340i vs the M3 it's surely the torque difference that's crucial there, and that the M3 is highly underrated.
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      11-29-2014, 02:37 PM   #103
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BMW underrates their engines. I don't see the B58 having much more than 330HP if that because it would kill M3 sales when tuned.
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      11-29-2014, 04:07 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diver
Does anyone around here know how the Bx8 series of engines will differ from the current Nxx series of engines, other than trying to guess the power ratings? I am not expecting the B58 to have more than 330 hp either because the M2 is said to have an N55 in the 370-380 range.
No one knows anything, we are all guesstimating here. However any estimate within 100hp of the M3/4 is wishful thinking. And as you said the M2s hp ratings should be higher too, that's just the way the food chain works

My other guess would be the Bx8 engines are probably going to focus more on getting closer to what you get with the S55 iro the area under the graph.
Again just guesstimating here
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      11-29-2014, 04:29 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clbmw View Post
Um my guess is a bit higher than 330bhp as BMW seems to be taking the fight to S models etc with M performance line.

Merc are looking at 360+ BHP for new AMG sport

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/mercede...rce=newsletter

Audi S4 2015 is rumoured to be 350+ BHP

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/audi/a4...te-and-rumours
The AMG is not the 335i's competitor. Mercedes' C400 runs at 329HP.

The 2015 Audi S4 is already out with 333 HP.

Quote:
As for a PPK to reach the same output as their competitors' S and AMGSp models I would say that's not good business sense - it says subtly that your product is inferior from the outset. Maybe one for the M3/4 to compete with C63S might make sense.
We are talking about BMW here. They release a brand new N55 engine in 2010 for the preparation of the F30 release, yet keep the power at 300HP. Meanwhile, Audi's S4 has been at 333-340HP since 2003. It does not phase them.

BMW is very Apple-esque when it comes to performance. They don't try to race to tout the fastest CPU/GPU/HP at the cutting edge, it's almost a disservice to do so -- valuing your worth on who has the fastest hardware will give the competition more ammunition to claim superiority. The focus is on driving experience and handling, just as Apple's focus is on software and the overall usability experience. I would not be surprised if BMW undercuts at around 320-325HP just to send the message that they don't need these numbers to compete.
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      11-29-2014, 04:31 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paigey
Quote:
Originally Posted by clbmw View Post
Um my guess is a bit higher than 330bhp as BMW seems to be taking the fight to S models etc with M performance line.

Merc are looking at 360+ BHP for new AMG sport

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/mercede...rce=newsletter

Audi S4 2015 is rumoured to be 350+ BHP

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/audi/a4...te-and-rumours
The AMG is not the 335i's competitor. Mercedes' C400 runs at 329HP.

The 2015 Audi S4 is already out with 333 HP.

Quote:
As for a PPK to reach the same output as their competitors' S and AMGSp models I would say that's not good business sense - it says subtly that your product is inferior from the outset. Maybe one for the M3/4 to compete with C63S might make sense.
We are talking about BMW here. They release a brand new N55 engine in 2010 for the preparation of the F30 release, yet keep the power at 300HP. Meanwhile, Audi's S4 has been at 333-340HP since 2003. It does not phase them.

BMW is very Apple-esque when it comes to performance. They don't try to race to tout the fastest CPU/GPU/HP at the cutting edge, it's almost a disservice to do so -- valuing your worth on who has the fastest hardware will give the competition more ammunition to claim superiority. The focus is on driving experience and handling, just as Apple's focus is on software and the overall usability experience. I would not be surprised if BMW undercuts at around 320-325HP just to send the message that they don't need these numbers to compete.
This
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      11-29-2014, 04:55 PM   #107
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Fair enough, time will tell. It's not always the case, BMW did up the 550i power to keep in line with the S6.

I stand by the assertion that having to sell a PPK to equal rivals' power levels is a poor starting point.
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      11-29-2014, 05:11 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clbmw
Fair enough, time will tell. It's not always the case, BMW did up the 550i power to keep in line with the S6.

I stand by the assertion that having to sell a PPK to equal rivals' power levels is a poor starting point.
Exactly bro, it's all about making a prediction and we see who is right when the time comes. No one but BMW has the answer.

But I think the 300-330hp predictions are in the money
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      11-30-2014, 11:57 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel
Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerMat135 View Post
Last 30i had 272ps I don't see anything below 275-280ps unless BMW want to go backward.
The 330i was the top of the line model at that time. With the 340i sitting above now, there's no need for the 330i to outperform the old one. The 323i and 325i namesakes have gone through similar transitions from top model to lower model - the newer one does not generally sit above the past one.
I was talking about the late 330i. They made them until 2012 I believe. That car was the top of the line of the n/a 6cyl at the time but was a slot behind the 335i. I think 275-280hp is a good guess for the next 30i.


Considering that the c45amg is around the corner i won't see anything less than 360hp for the 40i. The difference between the 1m and the 135i was only 35hp but 1m were selling like hot cake. So BMW don't need to maintain such a high difference in power between m and non-m models as they have many other interesting features non-m cars don't.
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      11-30-2014, 04:13 PM   #110
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Yup. The 4 series concept lights are finally here. And I'm glad they're not going to be limited to Laser headlights only. The LED headlights will now be "L" shaped.

Really glad that these will be available on the M2.
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