F30POST
F30POST
2012-2015 BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > Technical Forums > Suspension | Chassis | Brakes > Millway Camber Plates
European Auto Source (EAS)
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      09-03-2019, 07:05 AM   #23
kern417
Cheapskate
United_States
2010
Rep
3,135
Posts

Drives: 2018 440i / 2010 X5
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Cincinnati

iTrader: (0)

Very interesting. I'm curious how the bushings will hold up. Typically poly is a nice middle ground between spherical bearings and rubber bushings.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by umizoomi View Post
As long as 3-pedals are an option, I will exercise my right to suffer the handicap and indignity of slower shifts and reaction times.
Instagram @kern417
Appreciate 0
      09-04-2019, 11:17 PM   #24
andino
Lieutenant
269
Rep
428
Posts

Drives: F31 328i xdrive
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: norcal

iTrader: (0)

Nice! I would have opted for those had I known they were available. Should make a lot less noise over the uniball version I have. Though I will say that I'm very happy with mine so far. I've put about 3k miles on them since installing and they're still quiet.
__________________
2016 328ix F31 | Bilstein B14 PSS | MPBBK | ER Catted Downpipe | REMUS Sport Exhaust | VRSF Chargepipe | G-Plus FMIC | BM3 Stage 2 | K&N Drop In Filter | KC Front Strut Bar | VAC LCA Monoball | BMS OCC | Millway Camber Plates | KMAC FCA Monoball | KC RSB
Appreciate 0
      09-05-2019, 04:00 AM   #25
opvaulet
New Member
0
Rep
24
Posts

Drives: 1 series
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Global

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by andino View Post
Nice! I would have opted for those had I known they were available. Should make a lot less noise over the uniball version I have. Though I will say that I'm very happy with mine so far. I've put about 3k miles on them since installing and they're still quiet.
Wonder if one could upgrade just the slider which has the poly bush....
Appreciate 0
      09-10-2019, 12:48 PM   #26
MacklinUSOB
Captain
United_States
384
Rep
719
Posts

Drives: f30 328i 6MT Sport
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Connecticut

iTrader: (0)

These look like a great option. All the uniball options for our chassis seem to come with a lot of noise complaints. If everyone is still happy with these I may pull the trigger.

edit: pulled the trigger. Between Kern and Watsey liking them, being Ohlins preferred, and a great price it's an easy choice. Hoping to get them on before last track day of the year.
__________________
Add 5 horsepower for every M logo

328i RWD | Sportline | CRed on MW | 6MT | Bootmod3 STG 1 | MPE | GPlus FMIC | KW V2 | F80 LCA/TS | APEX SM-10 | R-S4 | Hawk HP+ | RBF600 | SS Lines |
Past: E36 328is & E38 740i

Last edited by MacklinUSOB; 09-10-2019 at 01:09 PM..
Appreciate 1
kern4172010.00

      09-10-2019, 01:59 PM   #27
Watsey
Major General
United Kingdom
2561
Rep
5,423
Posts

Drives: F31 330D sDrive M Sport
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Herts, UK.

iTrader: (1)

I'm going to post a long write-up on the Millway camber plates and Ohlins R&T, but a couple of things need to reach a clear conclusion first. They may take a month or so to resolve.

For now, as there's clearly some interest in the Millway units, you can have confidence in them.

Further details will follow...
__________________
Current : F31 330sD, DMS remap, Ohlins Road & Track, Millway Motorsports top mounts, SuperPro poly bushes, Quaife LSD, Stoptech BBK with Pagid RS4-2 pads, Birds ARBs.
Appreciate 2
      09-17-2019, 05:29 PM   #28
MacklinUSOB
Captain
United_States
384
Rep
719
Posts

Drives: f30 328i 6MT Sport
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Connecticut

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacklinUSOB View Post
These look like a great option. All the uniball options for our chassis seem to come with a lot of noise complaints. If everyone is still happy with these I may pull the trigger.

edit: pulled the trigger. Between Kern and Watsey liking them, being Ohlins preferred, and a great price it's an easy choice. Hoping to get them on before last track day of the year.
Ordered on 9/10, shipped today with estimated delivery of 9/20. Not bad.

Looks like price has also gone up 20USD since ordering.
__________________
Add 5 horsepower for every M logo

328i RWD | Sportline | CRed on MW | 6MT | Bootmod3 STG 1 | MPE | GPlus FMIC | KW V2 | F80 LCA/TS | APEX SM-10 | R-S4 | Hawk HP+ | RBF600 | SS Lines |
Past: E36 328is & E38 740i
Appreciate 0
      09-21-2019, 05:32 PM   #29
MacklinUSOB
Captain
United_States
384
Rep
719
Posts

Drives: f30 328i 6MT Sport
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Connecticut

iTrader: (0)

Got done throwing these on today with a buddy. Pretty simple install, I didn't bother removing the shock. Re-torqued the whole suspension and dialed in each side to -10.

Test drive was good. Expecting more noise and that's what I got. No clanging or banging, just more noise from tires and bumps. Time to send it off for a corner balance and alignment.
__________________
Add 5 horsepower for every M logo

328i RWD | Sportline | CRed on MW | 6MT | Bootmod3 STG 1 | MPE | GPlus FMIC | KW V2 | F80 LCA/TS | APEX SM-10 | R-S4 | Hawk HP+ | RBF600 | SS Lines |
Past: E36 328is & E38 740i
Appreciate 2
andino269.00
kern4172010.00

      09-21-2019, 05:36 PM   #30
andino
Lieutenant
269
Rep
428
Posts

Drives: F31 328i xdrive
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: norcal

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacklinUSOB View Post
Got done throwing these on today with a buddy. Pretty simple install, I didn't bother removing the shock. Re-torqued the whole suspension and dialed in each side to -10.

Test drive was good. Expecting more noise and that's what I got. No clanging or banging, just more noise from tires and bumps. Time to send it off for a corner balance and alignment.
Nice I need to get mine in for an alignment still. I'm running them in the stock position still since I haven't been able to figure out a time to drop my car for balancing. Looking forward to what specs you run!
__________________
2016 328ix F31 | Bilstein B14 PSS | MPBBK | ER Catted Downpipe | REMUS Sport Exhaust | VRSF Chargepipe | G-Plus FMIC | BM3 Stage 2 | K&N Drop In Filter | KC Front Strut Bar | VAC LCA Monoball | BMS OCC | Millway Camber Plates | KMAC FCA Monoball | KC RSB
Appreciate 1
      09-21-2019, 06:57 PM   #31
MacklinUSOB
Captain
United_States
384
Rep
719
Posts

Drives: f30 328i 6MT Sport
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Connecticut

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by andino View Post

Nice I need to get mine in for an alignment still. I'm running them in the stock position still since I haven't been able to figure out a time to drop my car for balancing. Looking forward to what specs you run!
I only drive the car a handful of times a month at this point so this is what I am aiming for.

F c= -2.9 toe= 0
R c= -1.9 toe= -1/8"~

See how that goes until it has an LSD.
__________________
Add 5 horsepower for every M logo

328i RWD | Sportline | CRed on MW | 6MT | Bootmod3 STG 1 | MPE | GPlus FMIC | KW V2 | F80 LCA/TS | APEX SM-10 | R-S4 | Hawk HP+ | RBF600 | SS Lines |
Past: E36 328is & E38 740i
Appreciate 1
andino269.00

      10-08-2019, 04:09 PM   #32
MacklinUSOB
Captain
United_States
384
Rep
719
Posts

Drives: f30 328i 6MT Sport
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Connecticut

iTrader: (0)

So I had the car in for an alignment over the weekend at my local go to shop, SpeedSport Tuning. I had a chance to talk things over with the alignment tech to see what spec would best fit my needs. He suggested that we go for more camber in the rear and to take the minimum OE toe settings and cut that in half. Here is the final result, it drives better than it ever has, looking forward to LRP.

As far as the plates go they have a bit more to give and I could definitely pull -3.5 out of them. Noise did increase a bit after the alignment and a couple hundred miles but again, nothing I wasn't expecting moving to plates. No clanging or banging (and no more rubbing!!!!!) just some noise at low speed, I'll check the torque again but I'm not worried.
Attached Images
  
__________________
Add 5 horsepower for every M logo

328i RWD | Sportline | CRed on MW | 6MT | Bootmod3 STG 1 | MPE | GPlus FMIC | KW V2 | F80 LCA/TS | APEX SM-10 | R-S4 | Hawk HP+ | RBF600 | SS Lines |
Past: E36 328is & E38 740i

Last edited by MacklinUSOB; 10-08-2019 at 04:29 PM..
Appreciate 1
kern4172010.00

      10-08-2019, 04:42 PM   #33
aps
Lieutenant
aps's Avatar
144
Rep
597
Posts

Drives: '13 F30 335i
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacklinUSOB View Post
Got done throwing these on today with a buddy. Pretty simple install, I didn't bother removing the shock. Re-torqued the whole suspension and dialed in each side to -10.

Test drive was good. Expecting more noise and that's what I got. No clanging or banging, just more noise from tires and bumps. Time to send it off for a corner balance and alignment.
this is going to be a dumb question since I've never done a suspension install myself, but how did you go about installing the camber plates without removing the shock?
Appreciate 0
      10-08-2019, 05:15 PM   #34
MacklinUSOB
Captain
United_States
384
Rep
719
Posts

Drives: f30 328i 6MT Sport
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Connecticut

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by aps View Post
this is going to be a dumb question since I've never done a suspension install myself, but how did you go about installing the camber plates without removing the shock?
The way to get these installed without removing the shock involves loosening the two lower control arms. Take off the wheel, unhook the brake lines and ABS sensors, remove the sway bar end link from the strut, loosen the chassis side bolts on the TS and LCA. Now up top remove the chassis strut brace bolt then start to remove the 3 (or 5 if LCI) top bolts connecting the strut to the chassis. Do not just take them all off without supporting the hub or it will fall out and ruin your day. Carefully lower out the strut assembly from the well. If you have coilovers take note of the perch position then get rid of the preload. If you have struts and springs use a spring compressor to contain the spring. Remove the top bolt, move the spring bearing to the camber plate, reinstall in reverse. Re-torque all arms under load.

Not a hard job if you've wrenched before but having a handy friend around helps a lot, particularly with loosening the top bolts and guiding out the strut.
__________________
Add 5 horsepower for every M logo

328i RWD | Sportline | CRed on MW | 6MT | Bootmod3 STG 1 | MPE | GPlus FMIC | KW V2 | F80 LCA/TS | APEX SM-10 | R-S4 | Hawk HP+ | RBF600 | SS Lines |
Past: E36 328is & E38 740i
Appreciate 1
aps143.50

      10-08-2019, 11:07 PM   #35
kern417
Cheapskate
United_States
2010
Rep
3,135
Posts

Drives: 2018 440i / 2010 X5
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Cincinnati

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacklinUSOB View Post
The way to get these installed without removing the shock involves loosening the two lower control arms. Take off the wheel, unhook the brake lines and ABS sensors, remove the sway bar end link from the strut, loosen the chassis side bolts on the TS and LCA. Now up top remove the chassis strut brace bolt then start to remove the 3 (or 5 if LCI) top bolts connecting the strut to the chassis. Do not just take them all off without supporting the hub or it will fall out and ruin your day. Carefully lower out the strut assembly from the well. If you have coilovers take note of the perch position then get rid of the preload. If you have struts and springs use a spring compressor to contain the spring. Remove the top bolt, move the spring bearing to the camber plate, reinstall in reverse. Re-torque all arms under load.

Not a hard job if you've wrenched before but having a handy friend around helps a lot, particularly with loosening the top bolts and guiding out the strut.
I didn't even have to loosen any control arm bolts for it to clear.

5 strut tower bolts
1 strut brace bolt
1 sway bar end link bolt

Push down a bit and the strut will swing out.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by umizoomi View Post
As long as 3-pedals are an option, I will exercise my right to suffer the handicap and indignity of slower shifts and reaction times.
Instagram @kern417
Appreciate 1
aps143.50

      10-08-2019, 11:42 PM   #36
andino
Lieutenant
269
Rep
428
Posts

Drives: F31 328i xdrive
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: norcal

iTrader: (0)

I've put about 5k miles on my camber plates now and they're still silent. I'm running the ball bearing version and not poly top version that was released recently. I primarily drive in SF, CA and the roads aren't great here. Couple road trips to LA under the belt as well and things are holding up fantastic. Most camber plates I've had in the past have started to make some noise by this point so this is a good experience thus far.
__________________
2016 328ix F31 | Bilstein B14 PSS | MPBBK | ER Catted Downpipe | REMUS Sport Exhaust | VRSF Chargepipe | G-Plus FMIC | BM3 Stage 2 | K&N Drop In Filter | KC Front Strut Bar | VAC LCA Monoball | BMS OCC | Millway Camber Plates | KMAC FCA Monoball | KC RSB
Appreciate 2
aps143.50
kern4172010.00

      10-09-2019, 02:25 PM   #37
MacklinUSOB
Captain
United_States
384
Rep
719
Posts

Drives: f30 328i 6MT Sport
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Connecticut

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kern417 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacklinUSOB View Post
The way to get these installed without removing the shock involves loosening the two lower control arms. Take off the wheel, unhook the brake lines and ABS sensors, remove the sway bar end link from the strut, loosen the chassis side bolts on the TS and LCA. Now up top remove the chassis strut brace bolt then start to remove the 3 (or 5 if LCI) top bolts connecting the strut to the chassis. Do not just take them all off without supporting the hub or it will fall out and ruin your day. Carefully lower out the strut assembly from the well. If you have coilovers take note of the perch position then get rid of the preload. If you have struts and springs use a spring compressor to contain the spring. Remove the top bolt, move the spring bearing to the camber plate, reinstall in reverse. Re-torque all arms under load.

Not a hard job if you've wrenched before but having a handy friend around helps a lot, particularly with loosening the top bolts and guiding out the strut.
I didn't even have to loosen any control arm bolts for it to clear.

5 strut tower bolts
1 strut brace bolt
1 sway bar end link bolt

Push down a bit and the strut will swing out.
Good to know. I was also doing this with the intention of retorquing so I took the opportunity while it was apart.
__________________
Add 5 horsepower for every M logo

328i RWD | Sportline | CRed on MW | 6MT | Bootmod3 STG 1 | MPE | GPlus FMIC | KW V2 | F80 LCA/TS | APEX SM-10 | R-S4 | Hawk HP+ | RBF600 | SS Lines |
Past: E36 328is & E38 740i
Appreciate 1
kern4172010.00

      10-09-2019, 07:46 PM   #38
Watsey
Major General
United Kingdom
2561
Rep
5,423
Posts

Drives: F31 330D sDrive M Sport
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Herts, UK.

iTrader: (1)

My experience with camber-adjustable top mounts : it's been a long road (pun intended), incredibly frustrating, and extremely expensive.

The F31 330d has a fairly heavy front end and is prone to understeer - no 'new news' there.

My suspension upgrade journey has gone like this :
  1. Completely OEM : adaptive dampers; M-Sport suspension; BMW anti-roll bars; BMW top mounts - very soft; poor damping; lots of understeer.
  2. Adaptive dampers; AC Schnitzer springs; H&R ARB; BMW top mounts - improved ride (less wallow); much flatter cornering; significant understeer.
  3. Ohlins Road & Track; H&R ARBs; Vorshlag top mounts - vastly improved damping; the same flatter cornering; some unwanted increase in front ride height; camber set at -1'30"; very significant knocking from front suspension (audible and physical - it could be felt through the pedals, seat and steering column) which was suspected to be caused by the Vorshlag top mounts which were immediately removed (yes, the noise was THAT bad - audio file attached, recorded on a normal UK stretch of road).
  4. Remove Vorschlag; reinstall OEM top mounts - silent running, but the understeer returned (obviously).
  5. Installed Millway top mounts - no increase in front ride height; camber set at -1'75" (understeer almost gone); knocking noise returned (very intrusive).
  6. At this stage the specialist suspension shop and I suspected that the monoballs in the top mounts were the root cause. Millway were VERY accommodating and worked with me to engineer an upgrade.
  7. Millway solution installed (still using a monoball) - the knocking noise was still there. Hopefully of interest, to anyone considering Millway camber-adjustable top mounts, their standard monoballs showed no signs of wear after 7K miles. The monoballs were still tight to turn; no pitting; etc.
  8. All bushes, including the SuperPro poly units (which had been ono the car for ~20K miles) were inspected - no wear was discovered.
  9. Finally the Ohlins R&T front dampers were investigated on the car using wireless 'chassis ears' - this identified that significant mechanical noise was coming from the front dampers.
  10. Ohlins R&T front units were removed, driven to the UK distributor / service centre, and stripped/rebuilt. The 'bearing', actually a simple coated sleeve, located at the top of the damper bodies was not identified as worn but was replaced as a precaution.
  11. Dampers were refitted the same day and the noise has 99% gone.

We can't be 100% conclusive that the dampers were the root cause of the knocking, but there seems to be too strong a correlation for it to be coincidence.

My conclusions :

I'm disappointed to apparently have had such an intrusive problem with Ohlins R&T after just 12K miles. These are premium-priced dampers, and I expected them to be flawless. Even though the mileage was low, Ohlins refused a warranty claim because they were 2 years old. I think that's an example of really bad customer service. I would be reluctant to buy Ohlins again in the future.

The Ohlins UK agent, BG Motorsports at Silverstone, was far more helpful and helped to fix the problem. Thanks Ben. I believe they are also agents for Bilstein...

Millway top mounts - highly recommended; nice simple design; apparently robust; excellent customer service (both from Millway - Samuel, and also the UK agent Hack Engineering - another Ben).

Suspension expertise : Center Gravity (UK) have shared the frustration with this journey, to the extent where they refused to fit top mounts to other cars until the root cause of the problem was fully understood. We had tried several approaches to try and rule out the R&T being the problem, including running the dampers on full hard and full soft. Many other components were eliminated through investigation - steering rack; lower control arms; tension arms; drop links; intercooler; ARBs and bushes; undertrays; strut braces; engine mounts; etc. The noise was ever-present with aftermarket top mounts, but silent when the OEM top mounts were reinstalled. Everything pointed towards the top mounts being the problem, however, in reality it shows how soft and isolating the elastomer-encased OEM top mount bushes are.

I will continue to take my car to Center Gravity (Pete, Chris, Holly & Jayne) for all its suspension work.

Has it been worth it ? That's subjective. Although the car now rides and handles as I want it to, on road and on track, it's certainly been much more expensive than I'd have liked.
Attached Files
File Type: zip Millway Top Mounts - Noise copy.m4a.zip (406.9 KB, 7 views)
__________________
Current : F31 330sD, DMS remap, Ohlins Road & Track, Millway Motorsports top mounts, SuperPro poly bushes, Quaife LSD, Stoptech BBK with Pagid RS4-2 pads, Birds ARBs.

Last edited by Watsey; 10-10-2019 at 12:21 PM..
Appreciate 1
      10-13-2019, 11:28 AM   #39
Moupe
Monobloc
Moupe's Avatar
United_States
168
Rep
278
Posts

Drives: '02 M Coupe - '19 F31 Ind.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Bay Area, Killa Kali

iTrader: (1)

Not exactly related to F3x plates but I wanted to chime in on their product and service. Copped Millway plates for my 2002 M Coupe a few years ago and have been extremely pleased with them. I paid extra for a 'motorsport' monoball bearing upgrade in hopes of extended service life. Their customer service is on point and their product is A-1 you feel me?

No issues, self-installed and just miles of smiles yadidimean?!
__________________
-2019 F31 Individual M-sport
-2002 S54 M Coupé
Appreciate 0
      10-13-2019, 12:40 PM   #40
madriz
New Member
2
Rep
29
Posts

Drives: 440i f32
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: spain

iTrader: (0)

on the millway page, where is the polyurethane top? I can not find it
Appreciate 0
      10-14-2019, 07:53 AM   #41
kern417
Cheapskate
United_States
2010
Rep
3,135
Posts

Drives: 2018 440i / 2010 X5
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Cincinnati

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by madriz View Post
on the millway page, where is the polyurethane top? I can not find it
I don't think it's released yet. What we saw was just a prototype unit.

I'd be weary of it though. The monoball is a big part of why camber plates work. It rotates freely to allow the suspension to realign when you add camber. A stiff poly bushing could prevent everything from slipping to the correct angle, and can put extra stress on the rest of the suspension (basically adding a lateral load to the shocks and other bushings).
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by umizoomi View Post
As long as 3-pedals are an option, I will exercise my right to suffer the handicap and indignity of slower shifts and reaction times.
Instagram @kern417
Appreciate 0
      10-14-2019, 12:08 PM   #42
Watsey
Major General
United Kingdom
2561
Rep
5,423
Posts

Drives: F31 330D sDrive M Sport
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Herts, UK.

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kern417 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by madriz View Post
on the millway page, where is the polyurethane top? I can not find it
I don't think it's released yet. What we saw was just a prototype unit.

I'd be weary of it though. The monoball is a big part of why camber plates work. It rotates freely to allow the suspension to realign when you add camber. A stiff poly bushing could prevent everything from slipping to the correct angle, and can put extra stress on the rest of the suspension (basically adding a lateral load to the shocks and other bushings).
This ^

I've seen a photo of what I understand was a prototype unit which incorporates a poly component. It was sent to me by Millway under what I believe to be an understanding regarding confidentiality so I won't comment any further.

The Millway-sourced monoballs are stainless steel motorsport grade units, manufactured by a German components specialists. They were still tight (to turn) in my units after 7K miles, which I take as a very good sign. They are rigidly mounted in the lower camber plate.

K-Mac uses a monoball encased in an isolating material to provide a degree of isolation. I've not used them so I don't know whether damper performance is compromised.
__________________
Current : F31 330sD, DMS remap, Ohlins Road & Track, Millway Motorsports top mounts, SuperPro poly bushes, Quaife LSD, Stoptech BBK with Pagid RS4-2 pads, Birds ARBs.
Appreciate 0
      10-14-2019, 01:14 PM   #43
FaRKle!
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
1015
Rep
1,536
Posts

Drives: '17 328d Sport Wagon
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Bay Area, CA

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by madriz View Post
on the millway page, where is the polyurethane top? I can not find it
Here's the link to the poly bushing camber plate prototype.
Appreciate 4
kern4172010.00
aps143.50
Logicoeur344.50

      10-14-2019, 01:24 PM   #44
madriz
New Member
2
Rep
29
Posts

Drives: 440i f32
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: spain

iTrader: (0)

Thanks!
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:37 AM.




f30post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST