F30POST
F30POST
2012-2015 BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > Technical Forums > Suspension | Chassis | Brakes > Custom Wilwood BBK
proTUNING Freaks
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-25-2020, 06:48 AM   #1
RbBugBitMe
PdV Motorsports
RbBugBitMe's Avatar
United_States
120
Rep
165
Posts

Drives: 2014 335i xDrive sedan
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Lancaster, PA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Custom Wilwood BBK

Following on from the post about coilovers I'm working on https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1720525

My wheel and brake assembly is coming together. The funky greyish thing is a sweep of the Wilwood FNSLR6 caliper.



I think I've seen most of the typical stuff available on the market which for the most part is the OEM M Performance upgrade (I'm M sport 340/330mm rotors), OEM F80 upgrade, and Stoptech BBK. These seem to range from $2096 to $3500 plus for front kits only. I took a look at Wilwood and they certainly don't offer anything that is bolt on for us but they are reasonably priced with a good reputation as far as I'm aware.

For $1306 without discounts and sales tax I can get the 6 piston forged narrow super lite calipers with dust boots, 355x32mm GT 72 curved vane rotors, and custom brake lines. I just need to make the rotor hats and caliper brackets. The rear is a similar story.

Benefits I see:
- Increased thermal mass and applied torque (albeit not as much as a 370mm rotor)
- Axial and radial floating rotors, relatively cheap replacements
- 6 pistons with dust boots, relatively cheap replacements
- I can tweak the rotor/caliper offset if necessary to clear different wheel designs
- Decent pad compound options
- 24 custom caliper colors to pick from
- Can recoup a lot of the mfg. cost from selling the Brembos
- Will take the time to water jet out some titanium pad backing plates

Anyone have experience with their pad options and have issues with them for a mostly street car?

I still need to figure out if I need to upgrade the master cylinder to whatever comes with the M Performance cars or the M3 and possibly have to do some coding as well. I also assume I'm going to have to bypass the pad wear sensors.
__________________
Ryan M. PdVMotorsports.com Owner https://www.youtube.com/@pdvmotorsports
2014 EB M-Sport 335i xDrive - PdV/BC custom coilovers, PdV spherical rear shock mounts, PdV big brake kit, MHD Stage 2+
Next up: PdV genuine GTX3582R Gen2 turbo kit, Nostrum HPFP & Stage 2 injectors, PdV PM5 w/ "Veyron" Bosch E5LM

Last edited by RbBugBitMe; 04-19-2021 at 06:01 AM..
Appreciate 1
andino479.50
      05-25-2020, 01:41 PM   #2
andino
Captain
480
Rep
681
Posts

Drives: F31 328i xdrive
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: norcal

iTrader: (2)

Fwiw, you can code the mpbbk to use if you're using the "base" brakes master. Seems to be pretty normal for those who do the mpbbk or f8x brake upgrade from base.
__________________
2016 328ix F31 - SOLD!
2006 997.1 C4S
Appreciate 1
      05-25-2020, 06:30 PM   #3
Logicoeur
Lieutenant Colonel
Logicoeur's Avatar
988
Rep
1,934
Posts

Drives: F30 335i xDrive
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Boston

iTrader: (0)

Depending on the cost of the rotor hats and brackets this could be a great alternative to the bmw brembos. I believe the only 2piece option we have is the ECS rotors, and their replacement rings are $600+. Wilwoods would be really nice.

What do you mean by "without sales" ?
__________________
F30 335iX | Remus Axleback | Fabspeed Catted DP | VRSF Comp IC | 18X9 ET35 19lb MT1 | 255/40/18 ECS | Ohlins RT Millway Street | Millway Control Arm Bushings | Turner Endlinks | TMH 75mm 14x1.5 Studs | BMW MPerf LSD | XDelete | Pipercross Filter | MHD Stg2 93
Appreciate 0
      05-25-2020, 09:02 PM   #4
RbBugBitMe
PdV Motorsports
RbBugBitMe's Avatar
United_States
120
Rep
165
Posts

Drives: 2014 335i xDrive sedan
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Lancaster, PA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logicoeur View Post
What do you mean by "without sales" ?
Just meaning I used regular pricing, no holiday/sale pricing.
__________________
Ryan M. PdVMotorsports.com Owner https://www.youtube.com/@pdvmotorsports
2014 EB M-Sport 335i xDrive - PdV/BC custom coilovers, PdV spherical rear shock mounts, PdV big brake kit, MHD Stage 2+
Next up: PdV genuine GTX3582R Gen2 turbo kit, Nostrum HPFP & Stage 2 injectors, PdV PM5 w/ "Veyron" Bosch E5LM
Appreciate 0
      04-29-2021, 02:55 PM   #5
RbBugBitMe
PdV Motorsports
RbBugBitMe's Avatar
United_States
120
Rep
165
Posts

Drives: 2014 335i xDrive sedan
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Lancaster, PA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
This has been a fun project. I've got the front upright off the CMM at work for all critical locations (maybe a drop spindle is next ). I just received the FNSL6R calipers and BP10 pads which I needed early for some more measurements. My original post used a $340/caliper estimate but I got them from THMotorsports for $277! Still waiting on a Wilwood lug drive rotor hat so I can replicate the lug dimensions exactly. My rotor hat will use that design with their lug drive rotors so no bolts required which is pretty slick.

Now I just need to finish the caliper bracket design and 3D print it for test fitting before ordering a set. Caliper piston area is only 3-4% higher with Wilwood's I picked so the MC should be fine. I'm glad the piston area is larger rather than smaller but I would have preferred a 4 piston front with the same area. Oh well.




__________________
Ryan M. PdVMotorsports.com Owner https://www.youtube.com/@pdvmotorsports
2014 EB M-Sport 335i xDrive - PdV/BC custom coilovers, PdV spherical rear shock mounts, PdV big brake kit, MHD Stage 2+
Next up: PdV genuine GTX3582R Gen2 turbo kit, Nostrum HPFP & Stage 2 injectors, PdV PM5 w/ "Veyron" Bosch E5LM

Last edited by RbBugBitMe; 04-29-2021 at 03:17 PM..
Appreciate 1
      05-13-2021, 12:58 PM   #6
RbBugBitMe
PdV Motorsports
RbBugBitMe's Avatar
United_States
120
Rep
165
Posts

Drives: 2014 335i xDrive sedan
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Lancaster, PA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Does anyone know what the max system pressure can be during an emergency braking event for the F30?

Also, does anyone know the CG height for this car?
__________________
Ryan M. PdVMotorsports.com Owner https://www.youtube.com/@pdvmotorsports
2014 EB M-Sport 335i xDrive - PdV/BC custom coilovers, PdV spherical rear shock mounts, PdV big brake kit, MHD Stage 2+
Next up: PdV genuine GTX3582R Gen2 turbo kit, Nostrum HPFP & Stage 2 injectors, PdV PM5 w/ "Veyron" Bosch E5LM
Appreciate 0
      05-22-2021, 10:21 AM   #7
RbBugBitMe
PdV Motorsports
RbBugBitMe's Avatar
United_States
120
Rep
165
Posts

Drives: 2014 335i xDrive sedan
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Lancaster, PA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Well I'm assuming CG height is 22in for now and Turner Motorsport shows a max tested pressure for BMW of 1200psi on their SS brake line page. So the Wilwood caliper is good to go and I was able to start building out a matlab script for load calcs.

Now I'm into caliper bracket detail design and FEA. I should have 3D printed bits to test fit soon along with the Motorsport Hardware stud conversion kit. Obligatory FEA image with no detail shown for the oohhhs and aaaahhhs.



This next pic is interesting. I found a research paper that compared rotor deflection when the connection from the rotor ring to the hat was on the inboard (turquoise) vs outboard (blue) side. This is not intuitive so I made my own version to test in FEA and I'll say its verified. Unfortunately, I am going to have to stay with an outboard design due to very low clearance between the rotor hat and the caliper bracket as well as the caliper body to the 3 piece wheel bolts on the other side. The benefit now will be my ability to space the caliper/rotor a little further inboard for even more clearance to aggressive wheel designs with deep lips. Just need to check rotor clearance to the knuckle and other things at full steer to know how much further inboard I can go.



I received the Wilwood lug drive rotor hat and pulled dimensions off of it to design my own and return theirs. If you haven't seen the lug drive before, its pretty damn nifty. Requires no bolts or safety wire which is why I'm using their rotors! The metal inserts reduce wear on the aluminum hat and a big ass retaining ring keep the rotor from falling off.






She's coming together quickly, waiting to hear on special pricing I'm getting for the rest of the Wilwood bits I need. Rotor hat drawing is done and out for quote.
__________________
Ryan M. PdVMotorsports.com Owner https://www.youtube.com/@pdvmotorsports
2014 EB M-Sport 335i xDrive - PdV/BC custom coilovers, PdV spherical rear shock mounts, PdV big brake kit, MHD Stage 2+
Next up: PdV genuine GTX3582R Gen2 turbo kit, Nostrum HPFP & Stage 2 injectors, PdV PM5 w/ "Veyron" Bosch E5LM

Last edited by RbBugBitMe; 05-22-2021 at 11:14 AM..
Appreciate 0
      06-10-2021, 12:12 AM   #8
RbBugBitMe
PdV Motorsports
RbBugBitMe's Avatar
United_States
120
Rep
165
Posts

Drives: 2014 335i xDrive sedan
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Lancaster, PA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Joy! So much progress.
  • Got my special pricing from a Wilwood dealer and placed the remainder of my order.
  • Received my new wheel bearings and Motorsport Hardware M14x1.5 conversion stud kit with their Titan forged nuts. These got me a few critical dimensions I was still missing. Now I have an accurate model of all the critical points/faces/axes in the suspension.
  • Received my 3D printed caliper bracket and rotor hat. Made some minor tweaks for clearance. Sourcing studs for the bracket is incredibly annoying but it'll be worth solving.
  • Should receive quotes to make the caliper bracket and rotor hat any day.

Next step is to install the new wheel bearings/studs and test fit everything on the car before ordering the machined bits.






__________________
Ryan M. PdVMotorsports.com Owner https://www.youtube.com/@pdvmotorsports
2014 EB M-Sport 335i xDrive - PdV/BC custom coilovers, PdV spherical rear shock mounts, PdV big brake kit, MHD Stage 2+
Next up: PdV genuine GTX3582R Gen2 turbo kit, Nostrum HPFP & Stage 2 injectors, PdV PM5 w/ "Veyron" Bosch E5LM
Appreciate 5
Polo088161593.50
Logicoeur988.00
pauli18c207.00
cfm56d7b5849.00
      06-14-2021, 01:56 PM   #9
cfm56d7b
Lieutenant General
United_States
5849
Rep
10,229
Posts

Drives: 2017 440i Gran Coupe & 2015 X5
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Orange County, CA

iTrader: (2)

Phenomenal project. Thanks for sharing!
Appreciate 1
      06-14-2021, 02:12 PM   #10
RbBugBitMe
PdV Motorsports
RbBugBitMe's Avatar
United_States
120
Rep
165
Posts

Drives: 2014 335i xDrive sedan
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Lancaster, PA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
I've decided to take my projects to production and became a forum sponsor. I can't speak about this here anymore so please lock the thread.
__________________
Ryan M. PdVMotorsports.com Owner https://www.youtube.com/@pdvmotorsports
2014 EB M-Sport 335i xDrive - PdV/BC custom coilovers, PdV spherical rear shock mounts, PdV big brake kit, MHD Stage 2+
Next up: PdV genuine GTX3582R Gen2 turbo kit, Nostrum HPFP & Stage 2 injectors, PdV PM5 w/ "Veyron" Bosch E5LM
Appreciate 0
      06-14-2021, 02:41 PM   #11
frchdragon
Lieutenant
frchdragon's Avatar
338
Rep
416
Posts

Drives: 2016 BMW M4
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: ON, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RbBugBitMe View Post
Joy! So much progress.
Is it possible to use a rotor hat off the shelf or existing rotor in the BMW lineup and then create the bracket to locate the caliper?
Economy of scale, cheaper to use something that already exists or your hat will be very expensive no?
__________________
'16 M4 bone stock
'13 335ix Msport BM3 stage1 - MAD FMI - FTP CP - Bilstein B4 (SOLD)
'85 635csi M30 turbo race car (SOLD)
Appreciate 0
      06-14-2021, 03:23 PM   #12
ryan@PdVmotorsports.com
New Member
ryan@PdVmotorsports.com's Avatar
9
Rep
22
Posts

Drives: F30
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: PA

iTrader: (0)

Good question, I just announced my forum sponsorship so I'll answer from this account.

I am committed to using Wilwood products because they are good and they are cheaper. For example, the 355x32 replacement Aerorotor ring from Stoptech is around $350 per rotor. The same size and slotted Wilwood GT 72 curved vane rotor would be around $250-$275 from me.

The other issue has to do with the stock calipers. I really wanted this to work out where I could do staged upgrades by doing the rotors or calipers first. However, the rotor thickness from Wilwood does not align with what Brembo does. Msport rotors are meant to be maintained between 30 and 28.4mm. Wilwood options start at 32mm or 25mm.
__________________
Ryan M., Owner www.pdvmotorsports.com

Please do not PM me if you have questions, email me at pdvmotorsports@gmail.com
Appreciate 0
      06-14-2021, 07:36 PM   #13
Logicoeur
Lieutenant Colonel
Logicoeur's Avatar
988
Rep
1,934
Posts

Drives: F30 335i xDrive
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Boston

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RbBugBitMe View Post
I've decided to take my projects to production and became a forum sponsor. I can't speak about this here anymore so please lock the thread.
Well that escalated quickly
__________________
F30 335iX | Remus Axleback | Fabspeed Catted DP | VRSF Comp IC | 18X9 ET35 19lb MT1 | 255/40/18 ECS | Ohlins RT Millway Street | Millway Control Arm Bushings | Turner Endlinks | TMH 75mm 14x1.5 Studs | BMW MPerf LSD | XDelete | Pipercross Filter | MHD Stg2 93
Appreciate 1
      06-24-2021, 10:44 AM   #14
ryan@PdVmotorsports.com
New Member
ryan@PdVmotorsports.com's Avatar
9
Rep
22
Posts

Drives: F30
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: PA

iTrader: (0)

It seems I'm allowed to keep this discussion going as long as it stays technical. With that in mind, I actually have a blog and recently posted a lot on this project.

https://www.pdvmotorsports.com/blogs...coilovers-pt-4

The one update since that post is that I am moving forward with the FNSL6R calipers and will adapt the Aero4's later when I move to 380mm rotors in the front and probably 355 in the rear.

As for retaining the rear parking brake with the floating rotor, I had planned to thread in a steel ring based on the same concept as centerlock wheels. One thread would be the normal direction and the other reversed so that in the vehicle-moving-forward direction of travel applying the parking brake would act to tighten the ring. I am probably going to move away from this toward a bolted design like you can see below but I can't make a final call until I dig into the design and see what packaging space is available.

__________________
Ryan M., Owner www.pdvmotorsports.com

Please do not PM me if you have questions, email me at pdvmotorsports@gmail.com
Appreciate 0
      06-26-2021, 08:41 AM   #15
ryan@PdVmotorsports.com
New Member
ryan@PdVmotorsports.com's Avatar
9
Rep
22
Posts

Drives: F30
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: PA

iTrader: (0)

Man I get ish done when wifey takes the kids out of town!

Perhaps the only F30 rear floating rotor with stock parking brake functionality in the world...

Key features
- Lug drive floating rotors with 330, 355, and 380mm Wilwood GT48 rotor ring options. NO BOLTS! NO SAFETY WIRE!
- Retains stock parting brake
- 330mm rotor option is 16.8lbs vs 17.9lbs for the stock rotor
- Machined in parking brake drive feature
Attached Images
     
__________________
Ryan M., Owner www.pdvmotorsports.com

Please do not PM me if you have questions, email me at pdvmotorsports@gmail.com
Appreciate 0
      06-26-2021, 02:30 PM   #16
Logicoeur
Lieutenant Colonel
Logicoeur's Avatar
988
Rep
1,934
Posts

Drives: F30 335i xDrive
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Boston

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryan@PdVmotorsports.com View Post
Man I get ish done when wifey takes the kids out of town!

Perhaps the only F30 rear floating rotor with stock parking brake functionality in the world...

Key features
- Lug drive floating rotors with 330, 355, and 380mm Wilwood GT48 rotor ring options. NO BOLTS! NO SAFETY WIRE!
- Retains stock parting brake
- 330mm rotor option is 16.8lbs vs 17.9lbs for the stock rotor
- Machined in parking brake drive feature
MUCH EXCITE! I just finished a brake project and there are no floating rotor options for the rear on this car that I could find. In for the final product
__________________
F30 335iX | Remus Axleback | Fabspeed Catted DP | VRSF Comp IC | 18X9 ET35 19lb MT1 | 255/40/18 ECS | Ohlins RT Millway Street | Millway Control Arm Bushings | Turner Endlinks | TMH 75mm 14x1.5 Studs | BMW MPerf LSD | XDelete | Pipercross Filter | MHD Stg2 93
Appreciate 0
      07-06-2021, 08:06 PM   #17
Cozmo Kraemer
New Member
6
Rep
28
Posts

Drives: 2016 340i, 2003 M3
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Orange County

iTrader: (0)

This is awesome work! Also in for a finished product, would love to support this kind of project.
Appreciate 1
      07-14-2021, 02:49 PM   #18
ryan@PdVmotorsports.com
New Member
ryan@PdVmotorsports.com's Avatar
9
Rep
22
Posts

Drives: F30
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: PA

iTrader: (0)

Finally! Wilwood has crazy shipping delays right now.

Super pumped to have the rotors and retaining kit in hand. Confirming some measurements and placing my rotor hat order ASAP. The 3D print fit perfectly which is a little surprising. Almost done.
Attached Images
    
__________________
Ryan M., Owner www.pdvmotorsports.com

Please do not PM me if you have questions, email me at pdvmotorsports@gmail.com
Appreciate 2
Logicoeur988.00
Ennoch2213.50
      07-15-2021, 10:07 AM   #19
Ennoch
Colonel
2214
Rep
2,025
Posts

Drives: F31 335D XDrive
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Scotland

iTrader: (0)

I love reading about stuff like this, it's great for inspiration on my own things!
Appreciate 1
      01-16-2022, 09:50 PM   #20
RbBugBitMe
PdV Motorsports
RbBugBitMe's Avatar
United_States
120
Rep
165
Posts

Drives: 2014 335i xDrive sedan
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Lancaster, PA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Well shit happens, I just have to figure out if it was my fault or my machinist. Either way it is going to be expensive to fix. Something is not allowing the spring inserts to install correctly. They look sick though and fit together without the springs. Hub fitment is perfect.











__________________
Ryan M. PdVMotorsports.com Owner https://www.youtube.com/@pdvmotorsports
2014 EB M-Sport 335i xDrive - PdV/BC custom coilovers, PdV spherical rear shock mounts, PdV big brake kit, MHD Stage 2+
Next up: PdV genuine GTX3582R Gen2 turbo kit, Nostrum HPFP & Stage 2 injectors, PdV PM5 w/ "Veyron" Bosch E5LM
Appreciate 4
Ennoch2213.50
Logicoeur988.00
Tchao333.50
      02-02-2023, 04:00 PM   #21
RbBugBitMe
PdV Motorsports
RbBugBitMe's Avatar
United_States
120
Rep
165
Posts

Drives: 2014 335i xDrive sedan
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Lancaster, PA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Happy 2023. Its been a long time, as usual the day job keeps me from progressing and I mostly post on social media instead.

I did make some progress though with a little bit of luck. I made titanium brake pad shims to enable using the Wilwood FNSL6R caliper with M Sport rotors. Part of the upgrade to Wilwood rotors is that they are thicker and so can manage more thermal energy but I wanted to be able to upgrade in stages to spread out the costs.



I also totally randomly stumbled on V̵a̵r̵g̵a̵s̵ a company with really shitty customer service that has a Wilwood drag brake kit which has all different components but the caliper has the same hose thread in the same location as mine. Big time saver buying his set of brake lines! So they'll arrive Saturday and I might be able to do the full front caliper kit install on M Sport rotors this weekend.

I've also jumped ahead and ran a topology optimization on the rotor hat and brake caliper bracket. A 32% weight reduction looks like this...





Quick video of the sim -->


Of course I couldn't stop there and had to optimize the rotor hat. That also was about a 30% reduction in mass...





So now these are directional rotor upgrade options I'm quoting. I'm also kicking off discussions with an automotive testing facility to put these rotors through a typical brake dyno durability test. Something you don't see to much of in the aftermarket world
__________________
Ryan M. PdVMotorsports.com Owner https://www.youtube.com/@pdvmotorsports
2014 EB M-Sport 335i xDrive - PdV/BC custom coilovers, PdV spherical rear shock mounts, PdV big brake kit, MHD Stage 2+
Next up: PdV genuine GTX3582R Gen2 turbo kit, Nostrum HPFP & Stage 2 injectors, PdV PM5 w/ "Veyron" Bosch E5LM

Last edited by RbBugBitMe; 02-03-2023 at 11:50 AM..
Appreciate 1
Ennoch2213.50
      02-03-2023, 11:51 AM   #22
RbBugBitMe
PdV Motorsports
RbBugBitMe's Avatar
United_States
120
Rep
165
Posts

Drives: 2014 335i xDrive sedan
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Lancaster, PA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Well Vargas sucks. Apparently when you ask for a brake line that fits in the caliper its perfectly OK to provide a line without the fitting that goes into the caliper. My line of thinking was clearly at fault.
__________________
Ryan M. PdVMotorsports.com Owner https://www.youtube.com/@pdvmotorsports
2014 EB M-Sport 335i xDrive - PdV/BC custom coilovers, PdV spherical rear shock mounts, PdV big brake kit, MHD Stage 2+
Next up: PdV genuine GTX3582R Gen2 turbo kit, Nostrum HPFP & Stage 2 injectors, PdV PM5 w/ "Veyron" Bosch E5LM
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:12 AM.




f30post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST