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      06-30-2019, 10:19 AM   #1
Icarium81
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Slow or no upshift if left to it's own choice

2018 330i xdrive, doesn't matter what settings I use, eco, comfort,sport or sport+, even if I put it in sportshifting.
Floor it, and keep your foot in it, no problems at all, it'll shift about 5 or 6 grand no problem.
Floor it and take your foot off, it's as dull and winter witted as any other automatic I've driven. It sits at 5 to 7k and just let's it wind down.
I wouldn't mind one bit IF there was any sort of engine drag caused by doing so, but it just seems to coast along and let the rpm go down as it will. (For comparison I drive an 18 wheeler and engine braking is almost as good as using the brake pedal, and I ride a bike which you can almost feel like you're shoved forward when down shifting aggressively and letting it wind down)
Please tell me this isn't normal. I'd hate to think that this is the best one of the performance auto makers can do.
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      06-30-2019, 10:36 AM   #2
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When flooring it, regardless of mode. The car thinks you are driving aggressively and will hold rpms high until it realizes u don't plan to upshift hard again. Than it will shift itself accordingly.

It's little weird at first, but it's normal
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      06-30-2019, 10:47 AM   #3
Icarium81
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that's the thing though, it doesn't shift at all until it drops down to about 3k.
I know it should assume aggressive driving but when you stop doing it it seems to just be exceptionally slow witted
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      06-30-2019, 10:55 AM   #4
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I notice with downshifting the ZF8 it doesn't really brake down the car. It's a weird feeling coming from a manual. I think that's across the board though. If you think there's a transmission problem you can always take it in as u r still under warranty. But it does sound normal.
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      06-30-2019, 10:57 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icarium81 View Post
that's the thing though, it doesn't shift at all until it drops down to about 3k.
I know it should assume aggressive driving but when you stop doing it it seems to just be exceptionally slow witted
Correct that's what my f32 does as well... when flooring it and than letting of it... rpms hold while coasting until the car realizes you are not going to floor it again kind of
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      06-30-2019, 11:11 AM   #6
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I don't understand what you want the transmission to do. On sport and sport + , it does downshift to keep you in the powerband. Secondly your comparing the engine braking while winding down the rpm band to an 18 wheeler, are you serious 18 wheeler have tall gear for pulling cargo.

In our car or the 330i, you only feel that engine braking at 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, not that you would downshift to 1st.
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      06-30-2019, 11:56 AM   #7
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I think sport auto trans and paddle shifters do a fine job...
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      06-30-2019, 12:50 PM   #8
Icarium81
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Gen13,I'm not expecting it to brake like an 18 wheeler, but I do expect something more that an easy coasting when it's winding down from 6 or 7k.

I've downshifted to 1st as well and it is a bit more than no engine braking, but it seems to be much less forceful than any other car I've driven.

AlpineX, no paddle shifters in the 330i, when doing it manually the car performs almost dreamlike, not quite as crisp as a real manual, but good for a semi auto.
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      06-30-2019, 03:03 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icarium81 View Post
Floor it and take your foot off, it's as dull and winter witted as any other automatic I've driven. It sits at 5 to 7k and just let's it wind down.

I wouldn't mind one bit IF there was any sort of engine drag caused by doing so, but it just seems to coast along and let the rpm go down as it will.

Please tell me this isn't normal. I'd hate to think that this is the best one of the performance auto makers can do.
Normal... Note the following description for the ZF 8HP gearbox.

Quote:
Rapid retraction of the accelerator pedal

This function can change the basic map depending on the speed with which the foot is taken off the accelerator pedal. For this reason, the determined accelerator pedal speed value is compared with threshold values that are saved in the control unit. This comparison leads to delayed upshifts and it also avoids (multiple) upshifts.
It is purposely waiting (upshift suppression) your next command. Perhaps better explained for the ZF 6HP gearbox.

Quote:
Braking deceleration and automatic upshift

To decelerate the vehicle, the foot is taken off the gas and the brake depressed as necessary. The gearshift map triggers an upshift when the throttle is closed. These gearshifts are not necessary in conjunction with brake applications as they prevent the engine's braking effect from being exploited.

The intention to apply the brakes can often be anticipated from the accelerator pedal being rapidly released to the zero position. If such an action is detected, the upshift is suppressed for as long as the accelerator pedal is in the zero position and the vehicle is in overrun mode.
Simply not taking the foot rapidly off the accelerator to the zero position, allows for expected upshifts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icarium81 View Post
Gen13,I'm not expecting it to brake like an 18 wheeler, but I do expect something more that an easy coasting when it's winding down from 6 or 7k.

I've downshifted to 1st as well and it is a bit more than no engine braking, but it seems to be much less forceful than any other car I've driven.
The engine has valvetronic, so there can be little natural engine braking, due to low pumping losses.
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      06-30-2019, 03:46 PM   #10
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If your car is at 5-6k RPM and there is no engine braking, then there is something wrong with your torque converter. There is a lockup clutch in there that should stay engaged when shifting manually and/or in sport trans mode. BMW does have a lot of different tunes for different cars, and the only recent automatic I have to compare is my wife's 2017 X5 35i M Sport. That car, when put in sport transmission mode in either of the sport modes will keep the torque converter locked up pretty 100% of the time except on a start from a standstill. It has crips downshifts even in auto mode and you will feel engine braking.

I'm assuming your car should behave the same way. Of course, it's a diff engine, different tune possibly, and it's also an xDrive. BMW has historically tuned xDrive cars more on the comfort scale since they're usually purchased by enthusiasts as much.
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      06-30-2019, 05:10 PM   #11
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I have little doubt that BMW have programmed the transmission and engine this way to reduce driveline shunt and to game the economy and emissions regs.

I've seen this with other North American spec vehicles. Many CARB spec vehicles had/have hitches in the throttle response. I had a 2001 Tahoe that did not GO when floored, there was a distinct delay in "fuelling up" while the computer waited to make sure you wanted to GO.
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      06-30-2019, 06:00 PM   #12
Icarium81
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Highland, thank you for that.

Agent orange. Wife claims it does exactly that, I've told her to take it the f out of eco mode lol.
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      06-30-2019, 07:31 PM   #13
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Coding it to sports automatic transmission will make it better. But yea, the transmission will hold a lower gear if you've been driving it hard immediately before. Then if you resume to normal driving, it should shift up and be less aggressive.

If they'd done it much more differently, then people would complain it upshifts too fast.
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      07-01-2019, 04:27 AM   #14
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Some of the characteristics users view as 'issues' are simply functions and features of the transmission management. A feature we need to get to know and understand, if we want to get the best out of the AT.

The issue raised by the OP is definitely built in to the programming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icarium81 View Post
Floor it and take your foot off, it's as dull and winter witted as any other automatic I've driven. It sits at 5 to 7k and just let's it wind down.
Upshift suppression is not a 'problem' or weakness in the programming. The characteristic is simply made evident in how we drive and use the accelerator.

I remember the first time I came across it in my E39 540i, I made a fast kick-down overtake and rapidly lifted off the pedal to zero position, the 'box didn't change up... First thought was, "what's going on?" When you understand the function, that it is programmed to anticipate brake action in this situation, it makes sense.

In the same manoeuvre, simply lift off more slowly and/or not to zero position and it up shifts as expected... it's all in the foot control.
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      07-01-2019, 08:52 PM   #15
Icarium81
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I'll give that a try highland.
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      07-02-2019, 05:47 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icarium81 View Post
I'll give that a try highland.
Yes, the best advice is to experiment.

Same with other features like 'brake evaluation', 'corner assessment' and 'kick-fast' responses, get to know how the transmission reacts to the driving situation and your inputs. Adjust your driving techniques to get what you want from the 'box.
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      07-02-2019, 11:22 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icarium81 View Post
that's the thing though, it doesn't shift at all until it drops down to about 3k.
I know it should assume aggressive driving but when you stop doing it it seems to just be exceptionally slow witted
The transmission is adaptive, it's learning according to your driving behavior. You been beating the crap out of it, the car will hold its gears because it's prepared for you to beat on it again. When I got my car back from service, it does that too, so I know they been beating it on test drives. All you need to do is a transmission adaptive reset and it'll go back to normal, until you beat the shit out of it again.
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