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      07-28-2020, 04:58 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancelot View Post
So... quick update on the topic, i'll be going Eibach for my second attempt at anti roll bars

To refresh the table at the beginning
H&R: 28mm front plain / 19mm rear plain
Eibach & KW : 28mm front *hollow* / 16mm rear plain

Eibach and KW are hollow so much lighter and not as strong as H&R which I initially tried
H&R are definitely designed only for track beasts but not road usage, as they compromise suspension independence that you need when dealing with uneven surfaces.

Eibach or KW would be better suited, Dinan are probably good too but difficult to source in Europe.

I'll keep you posted in a month or so when I get a chance to have an appointment with my shop to mount them.
so you had the H&R sways and they are too rough for street use and getting them off?
are you on coil overs or springs?
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      07-28-2020, 11:56 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shield_F32 View Post
so you had the H&R sways and they are too rough for street use and getting them off?
are you on coil overs or springs?
Yes, several of us shared this view FaRKle! recently too

Was on stock dampers then coilovers but in both cases the rear wheels would often lift instead of being in contact whenever a bump comes across, what I want is a balance between body roll control and suspension independence, I don't feel the H&R are right for that.
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      07-29-2020, 08:07 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancelot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shield_F32 View Post
so you had the H&R sways and they are too rough for street use and getting them off?
are you on coil overs or springs?
Yes, several of us shared this view FaRKle! recently too

Was on stock dampers then coilovers but in both cases the rear wheels would often lift instead of being in contact whenever a bump comes across, what I want is a balance between body roll control and suspension independence, I don't feel the H&R are right for that.
Would the Dinan sways give you the same problem?
I'm not sure what other options there are for xDrive, if that doesn't work then I guess upgrading isn't really the best option.
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      08-01-2020, 02:30 AM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shield_F32 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancelot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shield_F32 View Post
so you had the H&R sways and they are too rough for street use and getting them off?
are you on coil overs or springs?
Yes, several of us shared this view FaRKle! recently too

Was on stock dampers then coilovers but in both cases the rear wheels would often lift instead of being in contact whenever a bump comes across, what I want is a balance between body roll control and suspension independence, I don't feel the H&R are right for that.
Would the Dinan sways give you the same problem?
I'm not sure what other options there are for xDrive, if that doesn't work then I guess upgrading isn't really the best option.
Dinan are hollow bars so much less strong than h&r for same outer diameter, should be a better compromise.
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      08-02-2020, 12:04 AM   #115
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Following advice from this forum I bought the 15mm bmw rear bar for my 335 xdrive, but the last quote I got was $650 for installation. Saying it's an option...
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      08-28-2020, 01:21 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancelot View Post
So... quick update on the topic, i'll be going Eibach for my second attempt at anti roll bars

To refresh the table at the beginning
H&R: 28mm front plain / 19mm rear plain
Eibach & KW : 28mm front *hollow* / 16mm rear plain

Eibach and KW are hollow so much lighter and not as strong as H&R which I initially tried
H&R are definitely designed only for track beasts but not road usage, as they compromise suspension independence that you need when dealing with uneven surfaces.

Eibach or KW would be better suited, Dinan are probably good too but difficult to source in Europe.

I'll keep you posted in a month or so when I get a chance to have an appointment with my shop to mount them.
So they're all set, with KC Design adjustable endlinks and I must say i'm very happy with the setup, firm but not harsh.

General setup is:
- ST Sport Springs
- Koni Sport yellow dampers
- Eibach antiroll bars
- KC Design endlinks

This is a good match together, it's really when all components come together that it makes for a consistent setup.
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      08-29-2020, 06:58 AM   #117
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      09-16-2020, 07:43 AM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancelot View Post
From realoem:
Front: 25/22,2mm for MSport, 25/21.2mm for non-M Sport
Rear: 14mm for MSport, 12mm for non-MSport

hiya... slightly confused by the / in the numbers, what does it mean to say 25/22.2mm front sway bar?

EDIT: oh its outer and inner radius, so ... that meansthe OEM ones are hollow, right?

Last edited by gippy; 09-16-2020 at 08:11 AM..
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      09-16-2020, 08:11 AM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gippy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancelot View Post
From realoem:
Front: 25/22,2mm for MSport, 25/21.2mm for non-M Sport
Rear: 14mm for MSport, 12mm for non-MSport

hiya... slightly confused by the / in the numbers, what does it mean to say 25/22.2mm front sway bar?
It is confusing

That's because the diameter is not the same everywhere, attached is a photo where i've drawn the actual diameter of each section
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M Performance BBK - F80 struts brace - Quaife LSD - Koni Sport & ST sport springs - Millway Camber Plates and monoball - Akrapovic Exhaust - HJS EU6 catted downpipe - Wagner Evo2 Comp IC - BMC air filter - Powerflex Black Subframe Bushings - Bimmertech amp with Focal speakers
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      09-16-2020, 08:24 AM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancelot View Post
It is confusing

That's because the diameter is not the same everywhere, attached is a photo where i've drawn the actual diameter of each section

ok ta.
i stumbled across your very useful thread - currently trying to determine how much stiffer the H&R bars are compared to my OEM (440i w/passive m-sport suspension), in % terms roughly.
Would you take the point of smallest diameter on the OEM, so 22.2, to plug into the formula?
(i'm assuming OEM's are solid then)
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      09-16-2020, 08:41 AM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancelot View Post
So they're all set, with KC Design adjustable endlinks and I must say i'm very happy with the setup, firm but not harsh.

General setup is:
- ST Sport Springs
- Koni Sport yellow dampers
- Eibach antiroll bars
- KC Design endlinks

This is a good match together, it's really when all components come together that it makes for a consistent setup.
Hi, how are the Koni sport working for you? What settings do you have on them? I am considering them but looking for feedback. So few people choose these Koniís.

Thanks much!
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      09-16-2020, 09:27 AM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gippy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancelot View Post
From realoem:
Front: 25/22,2mm for MSport, 25/21.2mm for non-M Sport
Rear: 14mm for MSport, 12mm for non-MSport

hiya... slightly confused by the / in the numbers, what does it mean to say 25/22.2mm front sway bar?

EDIT: oh its outer and inner radius, so ... that meansthe OEM ones are hollow, right?
OEM bars are not hollow, but solid.
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      09-16-2020, 09:38 AM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gippy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancelot View Post
It is confusing

That's because the diameter is not the same everywhere, attached is a photo where i've drawn the actual diameter of each section

ok ta.
i stumbled across your very useful thread - currently trying to determine how much stiffer the H&R bars are compared to my OEM (440i w/passive m-sport suspension), in % terms roughly.
Would you take the point of smallest diameter on the OEM, so 22.2, to plug into the formula?
(i'm assuming OEM's are solid then)
I would assume smallest diameter as a starting point for comparison, and that oem are plain also i haven't sawed them to check
With the multiple diameters of course it's a bit more complicated, and i haven't studied the effects of torsion on a shaft with different diameters but i would think it results in some progressivity, ie. stiffer as torsion increases

That would workout for h&r to be 2.4 times stronger (or +140%) roughly although the actual effect depends on the adjustment since they are two way adjustable, the endlinks will have greater leverage at the outermost attachment points
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      09-16-2020, 09:41 AM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opvaulet View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancelot View Post
So they're all set, with KC Design adjustable endlinks and I must say i'm very happy with the setup, firm but not harsh.

General setup is:
- ST Sport Springs
- Koni Sport yellow dampers
- Eibach antiroll bars
- KC Design endlinks

This is a good match together, it's really when all components come together that it makes for a consistent setup.
Hi, how are the Koni sport working for you? What settings do you have on them? I am considering them but looking for feedback. So few people choose these Koni’s.

Thanks much!
Quite happy with the konis, they work really well for me.
I found nothing but good reviews here on bimmerpost so went ahead ordering them, which was a first for my shop as they usually push KW and a bit of Bilstein, but overall quite good, the only difficulty is adjusting the rear shocks requires to remove them completely
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      09-17-2020, 08:31 AM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancelot View Post
Quite happy with the konis, they work really well for me.
I found nothing but good reviews here on bimmerpost so went ahead ordering them, which was a first for my shop as they usually push KW and a bit of Bilstein, but overall quite good, the only difficulty is adjusting the rear shocks requires to remove them completely
Thank you for your feedback. Can you share how much difference the adjustments can make, for example how soft is soft?

Thanks again!
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      09-17-2020, 03:43 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opvaulet View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancelot View Post
Quite happy with the konis, they work really well for me.
I found nothing but good reviews here on bimmerpost so went ahead ordering them, which was a first for my shop as they usually push KW and a bit of Bilstein, but overall quite good, the only difficulty is adjusting the rear shocks requires to remove them completely
Thank you for your feedback. Can you share how much difference the adjustments can make, for example how soft is soft?

Thanks again!
It's not really like that; konis are rebound adjustable so compression is quick, and you can control how strong the rebound is with the adjustment;
To me it's not soft or hard, but more between bouncy (insufficient rebound control) and " crashy " (not enough rebound), and a good compromise in between i would call composed, sufficient initial rebound to absorb shock and revert, but not too much to keep in control and not bounce around.

You need to try different settings but the rear is a pain to change though as you need to dismount the damper.

The best settings would depend on your springs (stiffer springs will need stronger rebound control), and weight distribution; i would recommend to increase rebound damping at the rear from factory settings though, then adjust front; it seems to me rear rebound damping has a significantly greater impact than front, but then again that comment could very well be specific to my car.
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      09-20-2020, 06:32 AM   #127
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sooo whats the verdict on the sway bars then?
i was going to get H&R, then flipped to Eibach, now not sure as the KC design ones could be good too?

my purpose is for a track orientated setup - but i dont want it to be 'dangerous' for the road. I do not drive enthusiastically on public roads so not bothered about road performance, as long as its safe enough for motorways, quick lane changes and going to the shops then that would be fine.

i would say that even without an LSD, if i stick it in sport+ to allow some slip, and floor it coming out of a wide right hand turn from a standstill at a traffic light - the rear will 'wobble'. No steering correction needed, but there is that 'floaty weighty wobble' - maybe the B14 kit i've ordered will remedy some of that - its fine on track and enjoyable, but i wouldn't want to make that 'worse' on the road.
i suppose my only concern is putting a stiff rear sway will make the back more 'sketchy' - but then i'll be adding a considerably stiffer front Sway too, so the effect should balance out?

in which case, maybe H&R is best for me?
what do you guys think
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      09-20-2020, 10:57 AM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancelot View Post
It's not really like that; konis are rebound adjustable so compression is quick, and you can control how strong the rebound is with the adjustment;
To me it's not soft or hard, but more between bouncy (insufficient rebound control) and " crashy " (not enough rebound), and a good compromise in between i would call composed, sufficient initial rebound to absorb shock and revert, but not too much to keep in control and not bounce around.

You need to try different settings but the rear is a pain to change though as you need to dismount the damper.

The best settings would depend on your springs (stiffer springs will need stronger rebound control), and weight distribution; i would recommend to increase rebound damping at the rear from factory settings though, then adjust front; it seems to me rear rebound damping has a significantly greater impact than front, but then again that comment could very well be specific to my car.
Thank you for your comments. Very detailed advice!
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      09-20-2020, 11:17 AM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gippy View Post
sooo whats the verdict on the sway bars then?
i was going to get H&R, then flipped to Eibach, now not sure as the KC design ones could be good too?

my purpose is for a track orientated setup - but i dont want it to be 'dangerous' for the road. I do not drive enthusiastically on public roads so not bothered about road performance, as long as its safe enough for motorways, quick lane changes and going to the shops then that would be fine.

i would say that even without an LSD, if i stick it in sport+ to allow some slip, and floor it coming out of a wide right hand turn from a standstill at a traffic light - the rear will 'wobble'. No steering correction needed, but there is that 'floaty weighty wobble' - maybe the B14 kit i've ordered will remedy some of that - its fine on track and enjoyable, but i wouldn't want to make that 'worse' on the road.
i suppose my only concern is putting a stiff rear sway will make the back more 'sketchy' - but then i'll be adding a considerably stiffer front Sway too, so the effect should balance out?

in which case, maybe H&R is best for me?
what do you guys think
I don't think sway-bars will fix breaking the rear free like you described as that is forced. If you are worried about oversteer get a larger swaybar in the front. All this said, BMWs are generally designed to slight understeer so most should be looking to stiffen the rears. I would highly suggest adjustable sways like Lancelot mentioned unless you know what you are doing and it has nothing to do with brand or solid vs hollow it is all in the spring rates and for most that is touchy feely. In the hollow vs solids, solids are heavier by weight and really not by much at all but do protect tubular steel from buckling since recall a sway is not a straight piece of hollow tube.
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      09-27-2020, 06:04 AM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancelot View Post

The best settings would depend on your springs (stiffer springs will need stronger rebound control), and weight distribution; i would recommend to increase rebound damping at the rear from factory settings though, then adjust front; it seems to me rear rebound damping has a significantly greater impact than front, but then again that comment could very well be specific to my car.
... and as i've just found out, wheel weight is also a factor, changing from summer wheels 442m 19in to winter 400m 18in i had to readjust and increase damping as the ride became bouncy from different set of wheels
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      10-09-2020, 10:42 AM   #131
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So, if I wanted to keep the ride height, and reduce body roll, while not negatively impacting handling composure, in what order would I work to upgrade things?

it would be nice to cut the excessive body roll measurably without breaking the bank.

would a strut tower brace, which looks to be the least expensive and easiest thing to do, be of much value on an otherwise stock 328i Msport?
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      10-09-2020, 11:25 PM   #132
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ST Suspension just entered the ball game. The kit is half the price of H&Rs kit, and sized at 28/19 front and rear. 2 settings

https://suspension-shop.com/st-suspe...plete-kit.html
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