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      09-17-2020, 10:03 AM   #4115
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Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
Not really. I only log on basically the same road, and its on a surface street next to railroad tracks, so you need to hit stoplights getting there. Never log on the freeway where i am driving nonstop up until the pull.

After heat wrapping my CP, IATs stay much closer to ambient under the typical 'heat soak' conditions (stoplights, traffic, light throttle, etc - not WOT). I can usually be within 10F of ambient or so if i am moving at all. Of course, it still rises when sitting idling.
I noticed, heat soak gets much worst after ftp metal pipes install.
Ambient is around 33C in summer, and IAT 60 to 70C at congestion.
Driving normally is at around 50-55c. WOT at 40- 45C (I have IC)

I am buying those from Amazon. Not sure how many rolls do I need for 3 pipes (charge, boost and induction).
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      09-17-2020, 11:08 AM   #4116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoHK View Post
I noticed, heat soak gets much worst after ftp metal pipes install.
Ambient is around 33C in summer, and IAT 60 to 70C at congestion.
Driving normally is at around 50-55c. WOT at 40- 45C (I have IC)

I am buying those from Amazon. Not sure how many rolls do I need for 3 pipes (charge, boost and induction).
I used a 2'' by 15' roll and it was just barely enough to to do the CP the way i showed. If you were to do the entire intake and inlet, that would probably take an additional 20-30', depending on your intake size. The TIC would probably take 10'. So maybe 50' total?

Im not totally convinced the TIC will make a big difference if any. I debated about this, but the air coming out of the turbo is going to be hot... not sure exactly how hot but i would be surprised if its 150+F (obviously depends on boost you are running and intake air temps). You could use ideal gas law to do some basic calcs if you wanted to, but in my mind the air in the TIC might be just as hot as the air around the TIC in the engine bay, although the TIC is near manifold so could be getting alot of radiative heat from there.

As far as the intake goes, i considered that as well but haven't yet. It definitely gets hot; OEM plastic intake was around 130F after normal driving when i tested it on a ~80F day. But that is also pre-IC. Might have a small impact, but plastic is a pretty good insulator (assuming you are running one). Certainly wont hurt.

Inlet is close to the manifold so that probably does get hot, but again, pre-IC.

The cold side is the most important.

Edit: forgot to mention, when you order it, make sure what you receive is in a branded Design Engineering plastic package. I ordered once and i got the 'fake' ones (look at reviews), which was just in a tiny plastic bag, no label/packaging, etc.
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      09-18-2020, 05:25 AM   #4117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
I used a 2'' by 15' roll and it was just barely enough to to do the CP the way i showed. If you were to do the entire intake and inlet, that would probably take an additional 20-30', depending on your intake size. The TIC would probably take 10'. So maybe 50' total?

Im not totally convinced the TIC will make a big difference if any. I debated about this, but the air coming out of the turbo is going to be hot... not sure exactly how hot but i would be surprised if its 150+F (obviously depends on boost you are running and intake air temps). You could use ideal gas law to do some basic calcs if you wanted to, but in my mind the air in the TIC might be just as hot as the air around the TIC in the engine bay, although the TIC is near manifold so could be getting alot of radiative heat from there.

As far as the intake goes, i considered that as well but haven't yet. It definitely gets hot; OEM plastic intake was around 130F after normal driving when i tested it on a ~80F day. But that is also pre-IC. Might have a small impact, but plastic is a pretty good insulator (assuming you are running one). Certainly wont hurt.

Inlet is close to the manifold so that probably does get hot, but again, pre-IC.

The cold side is the most important.

Edit: forgot to mention, when you order it, make sure what you receive is in a branded Design Engineering plastic package. I ordered once and i got the 'fake' ones (look at reviews), which was just in a tiny plastic bag, no label/packaging, etc.
Thanks for the info, maybe I wrap the charge pipe first.
Hopefully, I don't need to remove the charge pipe for wrapping.
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      09-18-2020, 09:57 AM   #4118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoHK View Post
Thanks for the info, maybe I wrap the charge pipe first.
Hopefully, I don't need to remove the charge pipe for wrapping.
You will have to remove it. There is basically no way around that. The top half is kindof accessible, but the bottom half not at all. Even the top half would be nearly impossible because of all the twists and turns. Just remove it, it will be faster and more efficient. You can probably just remove it from the top without dropping the IC, but it would still require removing the belly pan to unclip from IC. Take the time to install something like TIC (or IC if you havent) at the same time; it might make you feel better about repeating work lol
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      09-19-2020, 03:49 PM   #4119
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I need some help please - I am MHD stage 2 tuned - cannot hit boost targets and boost falls hard at 5k onward.

I just installed a chargepipe and intercooler, all connections seems to be ok.

Timing is OK no corrections, fuel pressures look fine, WGFC doesn't seem to indicate any leaks either. The one issue I am not sure of is trims, am I running out of fueling?

This is MHD stage 2 E20 map.

https://datazap.me/u/chrisinfla/log-...3-4-6-15-16-25

This is MHD stage 2 93 map. I am closer to targets but still well under from 5k RPM onward. Strangely in both this log and the one above when I shift to 4th gear my boost is much much closer to target and hits 14.8 psi so I really don't think its a leak but idk.

https://datazap.me/u/chrisinfla/log-...ta=3-4-6-15-25
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      09-19-2020, 07:30 PM   #4120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murf View Post
I need some help please - I am MHD stage 2 tuned - cannot hit boost targets and boost falls hard at 5k onward.

I just installed a chargepipe and intercooler, all connections seems to be ok.

Timing is OK no corrections, fuel pressures look fine, WGFC doesn't seem to indicate any leaks either. The one issue I am not sure of is trims, am I running out of fueling?

This is MHD stage 2 E20 map.

https://datazap.me/u/chrisinfla/log-...3-4-6-15-16-25

This is MHD stage 2 93 map. I am closer to targets but still well under from 5k RPM onward. Strangely in both this log and the one above when I shift to 4th gear my boost is much much closer to target and hits 14.8 psi so I really don't think its a leak but idk.

https://datazap.me/u/chrisinfla/log-...ta=3-4-6-15-25
The links you gave just bring me to your main page so its not clear which log is which. Can you respost links to the specific logs you are referring to?

Also, Im going to assume you are driving the 2016 M235i? Were you hitting boost targets before the IC+CP install? Any other mods? Auto or manual?
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      09-19-2020, 08:33 PM   #4121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
The links you gave just bring me to your main page so its not clear which log is which. Can you respost links to the specific logs you are referring to?

Also, Im going to assume you are driving the 2016 M235i? Were you hitting boost targets before the IC+CP install? Any other mods? Auto or manual?
Yes 2016 M235i 8 spd auto with XHD tranny tune. Sorry I thought I posted the right links - see below for corrected versions. Only mods are the new VRSF HD IC and a BMS chargepipe - along with E20 in the tank.

This is pre IC install. MHD reviewed and said it was fine. Stage 1 E20 map.

https://datazap.me/u/chrisinfla/log-...=0&data=3-4-13

This is post IC and CP - Stage 2 E20 map

https://datazap.me/u/chrisinfla/log-...=0&data=3-4-15

And post IC/CP Stage 1 E20 map for comparison. Strangely the boost delta is still -4 psi after 5k rpm. I would have though car would meet a lower boost target if there was a leak.

https://datazap.me/u/chrisinfla/log-...=0&data=3-6-17

Last edited by Murf; 09-19-2020 at 10:20 PM..
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      09-20-2020, 12:14 AM   #4122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murf View Post
Yes 2016 M235i 8 spd auto with XHD tranny tune. Sorry I thought I posted the right links - see below for corrected versions. Only mods are the new VRSF HD IC and a BMS chargepipe - along with E20 in the tank.

This is pre IC install. MHD reviewed and said it was fine. Stage 1 E20 map.

https://datazap.me/u/chrisinfla/log-...=0&data=3-4-13

This is post IC and CP - Stage 2 E20 map

https://datazap.me/u/chrisinfla/log-...=0&data=3-4-15

And post IC/CP Stage 1 E20 map for comparison. Strangely the boost delta is still -4 psi after 5k rpm. I would have though car would meet a lower boost target if there was a leak.

https://datazap.me/u/chrisinfla/log-...=0&data=3-6-17
Well first, got 8AT you should be logging 4th gear WOT from about 2500-6500 rpm. Multi gear pulls helps sometimes, but generally you do the single gear pull as a test. Also, you are missing several logged parameters like load and load target.

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1732327

Anyways, something definitely looks wrong because that delta in boost vs target is way too big. You really want to be within 1psi. It most definitely seems like a boost leak.

Here my most recent stage 2+ E20 logs with E30 in the tank. https://datazap.me/u/thejeremyman9/3...og=0&data=4-21

Read here for how to build a pressure tester: https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=25343308

Read here for Oring if you have a leak. https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=25343343
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      09-20-2020, 09:45 AM   #4123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
Well first, got 8AT you should be logging 4th gear WOT from about 2500-6500 rpm. Multi gear pulls helps sometimes, but generally you do the single gear pull as a test. Also, you are missing several logged parameters like load and load target.

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1732327

Anyways, something definitely looks wrong because that delta in boost vs target is way too big. You really want to be within 1psi. It most definitely seems like a boost leak.

Here my most recent stage 2+ E20 logs with E30 in the tank. https://datazap.me/u/thejeremyman9/3...og=0&data=4-21

Read here for how to build a pressure tester: https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=25343308

Read here for Oring if you have a leak. https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=25343343
Thanks for looking Jeremy. The load parameter is in there I just didnt check it. See below - I am way below tgt load as well. It does appear to be a boost leak although I checked all the couplings again and cant find it. It could be around the o-rings as you mentioned.

Looking at my log below does anything stand out? I assumed that a boost leak would show up as very high (100%) WGDC but I guess that is not always the case? Any idea why my trims are spiking in the midrange, is it possible this is a fueling issue?

https://datazap.me/u/chrisinfla/log-...-9-10-15-16-25
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      09-20-2020, 01:14 PM   #4124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murf View Post
Thanks for looking Jeremy. The load parameter is in there I just didnt check it. See below - I am way below tgt load as well. It does appear to be a boost leak although I checked all the couplings again and cant find it. It could be around the o-rings as you mentioned.

Looking at my log below does anything stand out? I assumed that a boost leak would show up as very high (100%) WGDC but I guess that is not always the case? Any idea why my trims are spiking in the midrange, is it possible this is a fueling issue?

https://datazap.me/u/chrisinfla/log-...-9-10-15-16-25
A boost leak does not always increase WGDC to try and compensate. At least with MHD, it seems like WGDC will remain in check even if you have a leak, you just wont reach target. I had a big leak when i first did IC+CP and went stage 1, took me forever to finally get it diagnosed and solved (as documents in the boost leak and oring threads). At this point i think you really need to pressure test. Just 'checking' things visually and physically is not enough. I thought my install was totally fine after doing it twice but the pressure test revealed the real issue.

It is a little odd that your STFTs go positive because nearly all MHD logs show slightly negative fuel trims (tune is a little conservatively rich). This is even tune for me on the E20 map running E30, where if anything you would expect the E30 in the tank would mean fuel trims need to be positive, but mine at still a few % negative. Your rail pressure doesn't drop, so not sure why you have the positive trims. Are you running an intake? Your MAF readings also look unusually low so that could be the reason fuel trims are positive.

I highly doubt the boost issue is related to fueling.
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      09-20-2020, 01:33 PM   #4125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
A boost leak does not always increase WGDC to try and compensate. At least with MHD, it seems like WGDC will remain in check even if you have a leak, you just wont reach target. I had a big leak when i first did IC+CP and went stage 1, took me forever to finally get it diagnosed and solved (as documents in the boost leak and oring threads). At this point i think you really need to pressure test. Just 'checking' things visually and physically is not enough. I thought my install was totally fine after doing it twice but the pressure test revealed the real issue.

It is a little odd that your STFTs go positive because nearly all MHD logs show slightly negative fuel trims (tune is a little conservatively rich). This is even tune for me on the E20 map running E30, where if anything you would expect the E30 in the tank would mean fuel trims need to be positive, but mine at still a few % negative. Your rail pressure doesn't drop, so not sure why you have the positive trims. Are you running an intake? Your MAF readings also look unusually low so that could be the reason fuel trims are positive.

I highly doubt the boost issue is related to fueling.
Nope intake is stock. I wonder if the MAF is dirty.
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      09-20-2020, 05:02 PM   #4126
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Originally Posted by Murf View Post
Nope intake is stock. I wonder if the MAF is dirty.
It's a possibility. Just compare to my log, although i am on 2+ not 2.
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      09-20-2020, 05:14 PM   #4127
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my first log on E20 ... just mixed 2.2 gallons to get E20 with 93 octane and boostane left over which is probably 94 octane+... I'm very very happy with it... I reset octane rating and think it corrected the problem the first time I floored it in manual first gear and it fell flat on it's face around redline... scared the heck out of me... but all good now....

https://datazap.me/u/fastf30/log-160...28-29-30-31-32

Last edited by FastF30; 09-20-2020 at 05:20 PM..
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      09-20-2020, 05:28 PM   #4128
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my first log on E20 ... just mixed 2.2 gallons to get E20 with 93 octane and boostane left over which is probably 94 octane+... I'm very very happy with it... I reset octane rating and think it corrected the problem the first time I floored it in manual first gear and it fell flat on it's face around redline... scared the heck out of me... but all good now....

https://datazap.me/u/fastf30/log-160...28-29-30-31-32
Log looks great overall. timing and boost control are excellent although you did overboost a little in the beginning and get a throttle closure. Load control too. My logs do the opposite - i stay a bit below target on tip in and slowly climb up to basically be exactly on target by mid pull, whereas you get target immediately (with slight overshoot), then deviate a little as time goes on. Either way looks solid.

However, you seem to be very near HPFP limit. You get a small dip on tip in in 4th and a pretty big dip in 5th. You might want to log a 1-4 pull as that is when i saw the biggest rail pressure drops even when my 4th gear pulls looked fine.
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      09-20-2020, 05:30 PM   #4129
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Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
Log looks great overall. timing and boost control are excellent although you did overboost a little in the beginning and get a throttle closure. Load control too. My logs do the opposite - i stay a bit below target on tip in and slowly climb up to basically be exactly on target by mid pull, whereas you get target immediately (with slight overshoot), then deviate a little as time goes on. Either way looks solid.

However, you seem to be very near HPFP limit. You get a small dip on tip in in 4th and a pretty big dip in 5th. You might want to log a 1-4 pull as that is when i saw the biggest rail pressure drops even when my 4th gear pulls looked fine.
Thank you so much! ... wonder why it overboosts... any clue... also the HPFP... does that mean I'm at the limit for mixing?
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      09-20-2020, 05:35 PM   #4130
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Thank you so much! ... wonder why it overboosts... any clue... also the HPFP... does that mean I'm at the limit for mixing?
Yeah, i would not go higher ethanol content. Timing looks fine anyways. You can probably sustain this mix, or dail back E% slightly and check timing. You can always add a small amount of boostane you love so much to up octane while decreasing E%
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      09-20-2020, 05:49 PM   #4131
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Yeah, i would not go higher ethanol content. Timing looks fine anyways. You can probably sustain this mix, or dail back E% slightly and check timing. You can always add a small amount of boostane you love so much to up octane while decreasing E%
Thanks! believe it or not ... this is still on my 43,500mile plugs...I couldn't wait... .... Tried to PM you back but your box is full... lol... congrats on the tuning of the 3000gt... I always liked that car... Way ahead of it's time for back then I thought... Looks like your a converted boostane enthusiast now too...
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      09-20-2020, 07:08 PM   #4132
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Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
Yeah, i would not go higher ethanol content. Timing looks fine anyways. You can probably sustain this mix, or dail back E% slightly and check timing. You can always add a small amount of boostane you love so much to up octane while decreasing E%
Pureboost requires a 3rd gear pull as well for tuning... same condition for HPFP shifting into 4th... yep... needs a fuel pump.... wish MHD had off the shelf E85 for stage 2+... I see they do on stage 2 but not stage 2+.... I think I read anything 1600- cut back the E... I may of burned a gallon or 2 by now... I might go fill it up some more...

https://datazap.me/u/fastf30/log-160...=4-10-19-20-21
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      09-20-2020, 08:00 PM   #4133
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from 4100 to 6400 I was a fat 4.1time on the 95tune... this E20 tune I'm solid 3.8time... that's major in my eyes...
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      09-20-2020, 08:32 PM   #4134
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God I wish I had ethanol around here :/
I mean race fuel is only 5.99$ a gallon but mannnn
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      09-20-2020, 11:14 PM   #4135
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God I wish I had ethanol around here :/
I mean race fuel is only 5.99$ a gallon but mannnn
5.99 is a bargain. 100 Octane in CA is $10.99/gal. With prices at 5.99 i would almost consider mixing that regularly.
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      09-20-2020, 11:31 PM   #4136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pussiwillow View Post
God I wish I had ethanol around here :/
I mean race fuel is only 5.99$ a gallon but mannnn
5.99 is a bargain. 100 Octane in CA is $10.99/gal. With prices at 5.99 i would almost consider mixing that regularly.
Ya it's not a bad price, that is the plus
Highest pump gas is 91
I'm on 93 octane but bump it to 94 octane Incase of degradation, mixing 91 and 100
It's not bad at all
Going to bump to 96~ octane shortly for 95 tune
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