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      01-04-2020, 12:02 PM   #67
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I've got about 10k-ish miles on mine now and they're starting to get pretty noisy over very textured roads at low speeds. I checked and there's 2mm of play in my bearings which is the root of my knocking at lower speeds. Its annoying but not unlivable for now. Need to get the suspension taken apart to see if my thrust bushings from the OEM tops are still good but also order another set of bearings from Millway. Overall performance is still top notch and I just completed a 3k miles road trip from SF to LA then to Zion NP. Snow, rain, sleet, hail and whatnot without any issues.
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      01-05-2020, 03:43 AM   #68
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I'm surprised the monoballs are so worn after so little miles. I had ~7K miles on mine before I uprated the bearings (precautionary) and the Millway monoballs we're still tight - zero wear/movement.

Of course, once some wear/movement occurs it's likely to increase dramatically so maybe the 7-10K miles range is a real world lifespan.

What mileage have other folks put on the Millway top mounts so far, and are the monoballs worn yet ?
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      01-05-2020, 06:39 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsey View Post
I'm surprised the monoballs are so worn after so little miles. I had ~7K miles on mine before I uprated the bearings (precautionary) and the Millway monoballs we're still tight - zero wear/movement.

Of course, once some wear/movement occurs it's likely to increase dramatically so maybe the 7-10K miles range is a real world lifespan.

What mileage have other folks put on the Millway top mounts so far, and are the monoballs worn yet ?
It sounds like andino drives a lot and through a lot of conditions so that probably plays a factor. Road conditions, weather, etc. will all have an effect. I'm guessing it's no worse than what you see in the UK, but something to consider. Like in my case, I've probably only driven 300 miles since my last post (crappy weather + newborn) so I'm not the best representation for people that rack up miles quickly.
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      01-05-2020, 10:22 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsey View Post
I'm surprised the monoballs are so worn after so little miles. I had ~7K miles on mine before I uprated the bearings (precautionary) and the Millway monoballs we're still tight - zero wear/movement.

Of course, once some wear/movement occurs it's likely to increase dramatically so maybe the 7-10K miles range is a real world lifespan.

What mileage have other folks put on the Millway top mounts so far, and are the monoballs worn yet ?
I live in SF where there are a lot of potholes so I think that combined with how much I drove the past couple months really accelerated the wear on the bearings. 10k is where I'm at now but I started having some minimal noise around 6k or so. But it wasn't bad enough that I wanted to change the bearings. I'll be ordering some bearings now though along with a spare set to have on hand (also to save on shipping) for the next 10k miles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kern417 View Post
It sounds like andino drives a lot and through a lot of conditions so that probably plays a factor. Road conditions, weather, etc. will all have an effect. I'm guessing it's no worse than what you see in the UK, but something to consider. Like in my case, I've probably only driven 300 miles since my last post (crappy weather + newborn) so I'm not the best representation for people that rack up miles quickly.
The past couple months have been a lot of different conditions for my car. I don't usually do more than rain/sun in SF but I do take the car out to remote trails for backpacking and also the occasional trackday.

Overall, I'm still very happy with the plates overall. Hopefully the next set of bearings last longer since I don't have anymore planned extreme condition trips until around april. Driving the next couple months will be mostly city and track days.
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      01-11-2020, 03:09 AM   #71
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someone with miles in their cars with the tilt plates with poli? I'm very interested in the topic noises in this poli version
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      01-11-2020, 07:00 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madriz View Post
someone with miles in their cars with the tilt plates with poli? I'm very interested in the topic noises in this poli version
Poly plates have just become available. Probably will be a couple months before people can put miles on them. Farkie has a set coming soon (awaiting shipment) and I think one person has a prototype set.
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      01-12-2020, 10:58 PM   #73
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I'm very surprised and disappointed if the monoballs really haven't lasted very long...

10k miles is nothing - even for poor condition roads.
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      01-13-2020, 01:15 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jahjaman View Post
I'm very surprised and disappointed if the monoballs really haven't lasted very long...

10k miles is nothing - even for poor condition roads.
10k miles is pretty good. They were pretty low noise up until near the end. I'd say they're better than average having run a couple different types over the years. Most start making noise right away and I usually cycle through bearings after 7500.
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      01-13-2020, 06:22 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andino View Post
10k miles is pretty good. They were pretty low noise up until near the end. I'd say they're better than average having run a couple different types over the years. Most start making noise right away and I usually cycle through bearings after 7500.
Same. I've had 3 different camber plate setups on previous cars and they all started rattling within a week or 2 of daily driving. 1000s of miles kind of surprised me. I understand it's less than ideal but better than my previous experiences.

I'll update the thread if mine begins making noise. I'm about to upgrade control arms as well so things should get interesting.
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Last edited by kern417; 01-14-2020 at 06:22 AM..
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      01-13-2020, 11:51 PM   #76
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I have a lot to learn then. If wear is expected of a monoball camber setup, I won't be going down that route.

I then also wonder how the PU versions will hold up and whether they are a "set and forget" item or a "maintain and replace" part.
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      01-14-2020, 12:30 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jahjaman View Post
I have a lot to learn then. If wear is expected of a monoball camber setup, I won't be going down that route.

I then also wonder how the PU versions will hold up and whether they are a "set and forget" item or a "maintain and replace" part.
That's what I hope to find out. Beware though that data collection takes some time.

Today I calibrated my phone's SPL meter app to my work's calibrated mic for in-car SPL measurements I'll be doing before/after the Millway street camber plate install. I want to see if the plates increase noise over things like broken pavement and large cracks in the road.
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      01-14-2020, 06:24 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jahjaman View Post
I have a lot to learn then. If wear is expected of a monoball camber setup, I won't be going down that route.

I then also wonder how the PU versions will hold up and whether they are a "set and forget" item or a "maintain and replace" part.
At the end of the day, it's a race car mod. Race cars rattle. The only way to get around it is either bushings, or fixed camber adjustment (that's less than ideal). It's just one of the huge downsides of our front suspension setup. Great for cost and packaging, but crappy for driving dynamics.
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As long as 3-pedals are an option, I will exercise my right to suffer the handicap and indignity of slower shifts and reaction times.
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      01-15-2020, 06:52 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kern417 View Post
At the end of the day, it's a race car mod. Race cars rattle.
Yeah, but a rattle is just a rattle. What's indicated above is that this noise is due to the part wearing out, then that means it's also potentially unsafe and unsuitable for my wants and needs.

The F8x lower control arms have spherical ball joint, but do not wear or make noise over time.
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      01-15-2020, 06:53 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by FaRKle! View Post
I want to see if the plates increase noise over things like broken pavement and large cracks in the road.
Always keen to see your results. I can't remember your camber strut top setup?
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      01-15-2020, 08:20 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jahjaman View Post
Yeah, but a rattle is just a rattle. What's indicated above is that this noise is due to the part wearing out, then that means it's also potentially unsafe and unsuitable for my wants and needs.

The F8x lower control arms have spherical ball joint, but do not wear or make noise over time.
The difference is that the F8x control arms have rubber boots with grease in them. Just like ball joints. They will create rattle/knocking sounds when they are worn. But on exposed bearings like with the camber plates, they will wear faster. As they wear, the clearances increase and you hear rattling from the bearing moving around within the housing.

Even rubber/poly bushings wear out. They just take a lot longer and are a lot more comfortable (at the cost of performance).
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As long as 3-pedals are an option, I will exercise my right to suffer the handicap and indignity of slower shifts and reaction times.
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      01-15-2020, 08:24 AM   #82
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Hi Guys. I just want to chime in on the bearings and possibly wear.
From time to time we get some e-mail from customers that has sound from the bearings.
But since we started to use this bearings in 2015 we had not sold one set of spares to this day with over 700pcs sold. We have however sent out a spare set to Watsey here on the forum. But in the end it it turned out to be another part that was making the rattle.

I do not say that they will last forever. But we have done our best to find the best parts and materials that is avaliable.

Before we make any decisions to change bearings we have some points to check. There is more likely that the sound comes from below list.
1. Steering rack, BMW knows about it, but could not easily be heard with OE topmounts.
2. Bad EDC dampers.
3. Loose damper nut.
4. Valving sound from aftermarket dampers.
5. Worn out standard dampers.

Regarding the F8x lower control arms and the spherical ball joint vs Camber plates is not really comparable.
It is no secret that the bearings in a camber plate are mounted in "wrong direction" and not made to take the same load axially as radially.
If one were to subject the OE carrier bushing to the same loads in the wrong direction, I think it would be worn out within a few weeks.
Im curious to see the wear on Andinos bearings once he change them. If they are worn out I definitely know which guy I will send out my next prototype parts for test. :-)

I hope I have been able to contribute with something to the case.

//Samuel
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      01-15-2020, 12:03 PM   #83
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I've said it before and I'm happy to say it again :-)

Samuel and Millway were very helpful when I was trying to solve the knocking problem on my car. Investigations have been extensive and costly, and possible sources are now believed to be either the Ohlins R&T front dampers or the SuperPro bushes in the front wishbones. Neither of these have been confirmed yet.

At 7K miles the original monorails in the Millway camber plates were still tight to the extent that they couldn't be easily turned by hand.
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      01-15-2020, 12:57 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel Lindkvist View Post
Im curious to see the wear on Andinos bearings once he change them. If they are worn out I definitely know which guy I will send out my next prototype parts for test. :-)

I hope I have been able to contribute with something to the case.

//Samuel
We'll document the swap and let you know!

Thanks again for working with me to get my poly/street plates out quickly in time for me to install this weekend, get the car aligned, and ready for the track next week.

Roads like the below are why I chose the poly/street plates:
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      01-15-2020, 03:00 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kern417 View Post
Even rubber/poly bushings wear out. They just take a lot longer and are a lot more comfortable (at the cost of performance).
Yep, main difference again is that PU bushes like Superpro have a lifetime warranty. OEM rubber bushes (standard non-M arms) and OEM spherical joints (standard M arms) have a minimum 3 year/100,000km warranty. They are designed to NOT wear out within quite a significant timeframe.

If a major suspension component only lasts 16,000km before requiring replacement, I'd wager that 95% of the people that bought and installed them would not be pleased.

But again, it could be an anomaly. We don't really know.

Last edited by Jahjaman; 01-15-2020 at 03:36 PM..
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      01-15-2020, 03:03 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel Lindkvist View Post
Regarding the F8x lower control arms and the spherical ball joint vs Camber plates is not really comparable.
It is no secret that the bearings in a camber plate are mounted in "wrong direction" and not made to take the same load axially as radially.
If one were to subject the OE carrier bushing to the same loads in the wrong direction, I think it would be worn out within a few weeks.

I hope I have been able to contribute with something to the case.

//Samuel
Thanks very much for providing input. The comparison is very enlightening indeed.

If I can dumb down what you're saying... does that mean a ball joint is designed to withstand pushing forces against it (perpendicular forces) but doesn't do well when it rotates (which is what happens when turning the wheel)?

Last edited by Jahjaman; 01-15-2020 at 03:43 PM..
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      01-16-2020, 06:13 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jahjaman View Post
Thanks very much for providing input. The comparison is very enlightening indeed.

If I can dumb down what you're saying... does that mean a ball joint is designed to withstand pushing forces against it (perpendicular forces) but doesn't do well when it rotates (which is what happens when turning the wheel)?
I think he's saying the opposite. It's designed to allow rotation but not perpendicular load. Like in the control arm example, it rotates around the pivot but doesn't face a lot of direct load from the sides of the bearing. In our suspension we're basically beating it up since all the spring force pushes up on it.
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      01-16-2020, 12:43 PM   #88
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In the San Francisco area, the roads are like the surface of the moon with potholes that can bend suspension components and dent wheels. It has been rated the worse road conditions in the country.

https://www.kalw.org/post/why-does-b...untry#stream/0
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