[WrxToBeamerGuy]

So I want to install a Pure800 or GC turbo and Dorch Stage 2 HPFP. When I do those installations are there any other items I should install to protect my car? I'm assuming after the turbo install I'll get something around 500whp on 91 octane.

Bonus question: For my setup which turbo should I get for the best gains assuming I stick to 91 octane?

Current mods

CTS Intake
Burger Tuning BMS Silicone Intake Pipe
CSF Heat exchanger
Active Autowerke high flow DP
Exhaust manifold blanket
Turbo Blanket

[kriszty]

Originally Posted by WrxToBeamerGuy

So I want to install a Pure800 or GC turbo and Dorch Stage 2 HPFP. When I do those installations are there any other items I should install to protect my car? I'm assuming after the turbo install I'll get something around 500whp on 91 octane.

Bonus question: For my setup which turbo should I get for the best gains assuming I stick to 91 octane?

Current mods

CTS Intake
Burger Tuning BMS Silicone Intake Pipe
CSF Heat exchanger
Active Autowerke high flow DP
Exhaust manifold blanket
Turbo Blanket

if you stick with 91 octane then Dorch stage 1 is already good enough, for 91 octane do a custom tune, so timing should be then ok. best is if you can use a higher octane fuel ( 93 or higher )

[johnung]

Originally Posted by WrxToBeamerGuy

So I want to install a Pure800 or GC turbo and Dorch Stage 2 HPFP. When I do those installations are there any other items I should install to protect my car? I'm assuming after the turbo install I'll get something around 500whp on 91 octane.

Bonus question: For my setup which turbo should I get for the best gains assuming I stick to 91 octane?

Current mods

CTS Intake
Burger Tuning BMS Silicone Intake Pipe
CSF Heat exchanger
Active Autowerke high flow DP
Exhaust manifold blanket
Turbo Blanket

Are you saying that 91 octane is highest available in your area? No 92 or 93 octane available? Do you have access to E85?

[WrxToBeamerGuy]

Originally Posted by johnung

Are you saying that 91 octane is highest available in your area? No 92 or 93 octane available? Do you have access to E85?

That's correct 91 octane here is "premium" not a single place that sells ethanol in the entire state.

[WrxToBeamerGuy]

Originally Posted by kriszty

if you stick with 91 octane then Dorch stage 1 is already good enough, for 91 octane do a custom tune, so timing should be then ok. best is if you can use a higher octane fuel ( 93 or higher )

Yeah I know you're right about stage one but its $1,200 and for an additional $400 I can get the stage 2 and know I'll never need to upgrade my stage 1. Especially since I plan to keep this car for a long time.

[mike@x-ph.com]

The stock charge pipe is solid for the stock turbo, I would upgrade it when upgrading the turbo

[XutvJet]

Have $15K readily available in the rainy day fund just in case the short block says "too much". The possibility of this happening is rare, but certainly FAR higher when pushing 50% more power than stock. There's really nothing "safe" that you can do other than just not upgrading to such a powerful setup. BMW will tell you to pound sand if the motor blows. A new short block installed is around $15K. If you need a new turbo and other parts in addition to the short block, then you're looking at $20K+. You could save a bundle sourcing a used motor though, but with that comes potential risk and headache too.

[Jay5k]

Originally Posted by WrxToBeamerGuy

Yeah I know you're right about stage one but its $1,200 and for an additional $400 I can get the stage 2 and know I'll never need to upgrade my stage 1. Especially since I plan to keep this car for a long time.

Have you thought about getting the B58TU pump (Supra) instead? It's perfect for just 91 and its around $1000.

[Genieman]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Have $15K readily available in the rainy day fund just in case the short block says "too much". The possibility of this happening is rare, but certainly FAR higher when pushing 50% more power than stock. There's really nothing "safe" that you can do other than just not upgrading to such a powerful setup. BMW will tell you to pound sand if the motor blows. A new short block installed is around $15K. If you need a new turbo and other parts in addition to the short block, then you're looking at $20K+. You could save a bundle sourcing a used motor though, but with that comes potential risk and headache too.

Nice of you to come onto a subsection of a forum dedicated to adding performance enhancing upgrades just to talk people out of getting performance enhancing upgrades.

[G.Newt]

Originally Posted by Jay5k

Have you thought about getting the B58TU pump (Supra) instead? It's perfect for just 91 and its around $1000.

They're even cheaper than that from Toyota dealers ($800), which I completely recommend if all you have is 91. No need to go with aftermarket when there's a cheaper OEM alternative.

And to the guy with $15k. Why not just build the motor for $5-$7k and have that peace of mind? Pocket the rest for investments or other toys/goodies lol.

[WrxToBeamerGuy]

Originally Posted by G.Newt

They're even cheaper than that from Toyota dealers ($800), which I completely recommend if all you have is 91. No need to go with aftermarket when there's a cheaper OEM alternative.

And to the guy with $15k. Why not just build the motor for $5-$7k and have that peace of mind? Pocket the rest for investments or other toys/goodies lol.

How does one go about building a motor who would I contact? Additionally $5-$7k assuming I do the install and removal myself?

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by G.Newt

And to the guy with $15k. Why not just build the motor for $5-$7k and have that peace of mind? Pocket the rest for investments or other toys/goodies lol.

There's really not anything to "build". The B58 already has a closed deck and a forged crank
and rods. The hypereutectic pistons are more than up to the task as well. The weakest and most expensive failure point is the plasma coating on the cylinder bores. If that wears through, which has happended on numerous stock and modded B58s, the short block is done. You can't reapply the coating and no one makes a sleeved B58 short block yet.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Genieman

Nice of you to come onto a subsection of a forum dedicated to adding performance enhancing upgrades just to talk people out of getting performance enhancing upgrades.

Do you not think people should know all the facts and possible risks before proceeding rather than "Bro, go full send with the mods. The B58 is bulletproof!"?

It is so easy to make a turbo BMW wickedly powerful and fast for not a lot of money, especially the B58, but most don't realize that BMW charges near exotic money to replace a motor. You can always swap used motor in BUT BMW makes so many damn changes to their motors throughout a model run that you need to make damn sure you're buying the right motor. With so many changes, so little parts bin sharing, and relatively few BMWs on the road in the US, it makes finding used motors difficult. That's why many are stuck facing $15-25k a bill in a car not even worth $30k.

These cars are fun as hell, but if you mod one or even own one outside of warranty, you'd best have a well funded rainy day account for the worse case. For reference, I have a nearly 6 y/o M235 with Stage 2 mods so I'm down the risky rabbit hole to some extent.

[auburnf30x]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Do you not think people should know all the facts and possible risks before proceeding rather than "Bro, go full send with the mods. The B58 is bulletproof!"?

It is so easy to make a turbo BMW wickedly powerful and fast for not a lot of money, especially the B58, but most don't realize that BMW charges near exotic money to replace a motor. You can always swap used motor in BUT BMW makes so many damn changes to their motors throughout a model run that you need to make damn sure you're buying the right motor. With so many changes, so little parts bin sharing, and relatively few BMWs on the road in the US, it makes finding used motors difficult. That's why many are stuck facing $15-25k a bill in a car not even worth $30k.

These cars are fun as hell, but if you mod one or even own one outside of warranty, you'd best have a well funded rainy day account for the worse case. For reference, I have a nearly 6 y/o M235 with Stage 2 mods so I'm down the risky rabbit hole to some extent.

Exactly…

I thought the same thing when I saw the title ‘responsible upgrades’, and when the OP talked in the first post on wanting to protect his car. These engines are already pushing power per liter that would have been the stuff of dreams not all that long ago. Sure, they can be pushed farther, but nothing in life is free. Modding is absolutely not going to make the car more reliable. A voice of caution is a worthy addition to the topic if the owner has any consideration of long term durability in mind.

Do your research, use quality parts, and stay on top of the running condition of your car. These things will help you in the long run. Failure rate among diligent owners is low. But it is an increased risk, and something that absolutely should be considered.

[GA/\/\/\/\A_CT]

Also consider that your driving style can have a bigger impact on reliability than many of these mods.

If you are constantly racing from a dig, full throttle everywhere, etc then the car will obviously wear out faster.

These are turbo cars. More heat means more wear. I’ve been advised to monitor IAT with a tuned car...probably a good vital sign to monitor.

[WrxToBeamerGuy]

Originally Posted by GA/\/\/\/\A_CT

Also consider that your driving style can have a bigger impact on reliability than many of these mods.

If you are constantly racing from a dig, full throttle everywhere, etc then the car will obviously wear out faster.

These are turbo cars. More heat means more wear. I’ve been advised to monitor IAT with a tuned car...probably a good vital sign to monitor.

I put maybe 5k miles on the car per year. Although yeah I do like to do full sends frequently. The word of caution is a fair one. Realistically I was just looking for recommendations of upgrades that would reduce risk, not mitigate risk. I change my oil every three thousand miles and plan to do a complete fluid replacement soon. Transmission, transfer case, differentials.

I.E. upgrading the charge pipe like X-ph recommended.

Edit: I'll send my oil from the transmission and motor to blackstone labs before I do any upgrading.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by GA/\/\/\/\A_CT

Also consider that your driving style can have a bigger impact on reliability than many of these mods.

If you are constantly racing from a dig, full throttle everywhere, etc then the car will obviously wear out faster.

These are turbo cars. More heat means more wear. I’ve been advised to monitor IAT with a tuned car...probably a good vital sign to monitor.

Excellent points. If you want to decrease the potential for damage, I strongly suggest never going full throttle below 2500rpms in a tall gear like 4th and above for the automatics and 3rd and above for the 6MTs. I even avoid full throttle 3,000rpm pulls in 3rd and above in my 6MT.

Doing full throttle at a low rpm in a tall gear puts a very heavy load on the motor because the rpms are low. You can hear and feel the motor lug and strain initially. It also makes the turbo go full boost, possibly overboost, very quickly. This high load, low rpm situation can lead to things like super knock and low speed preignition (LSPI). This knock can be so hard and/rapid, that the DME safeguards might not be able to react quick enough and the knock is so bad that it hammers the piston through the protective oil film between the rod bearing and crank (= spun rod bearing). When add a lot more power, a different turbo, etc. you need to be even more aware of this situation because you're operating the car well outside of its designed limits.

Yes, lots of tuners request that you do datalogs starting in a tall gear and low rpm. Easy to say when it's not your car. I would start my runs at 3000rpms. When racing, the ONLY time you might be below 3,000rpms at full throttle is in 1st gear in a launch with an automatic. The 6MT should be launched at 3000rpms+ if you're skilled. Either way, 1st and 2nd gears are low risk because they have so much torque multiplication that the engine load is reduced and full boost isn't realized in those gears (because of the torque multiplication).

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by WrxToBeamerGuy

I put maybe 5k miles on the car per year. Although yeah I do like to do full sends frequently. The word of caution is a fair one. Realistically I was just looking for recommendations of upgrades that would reduce risk, not mitigate risk. I change my oil every three thousand miles and plan to do a complete fluid replacement soon. Transmission, transfer case, differentials.

I.E. upgrading the charge pipe like X-ph recommended.

Edit: I'll send my oil from the transmission and motor to blackstone labs before I do any upgrading.

Routine fluid changes and analytical are great practices for sure. Unfortunately, most catastrophic motor failures are immediate and rarely gradual.

The fact that you can only get 91 octane is a bit concerning given the power you plan to make. I'm assuming you're at altitude (3,000+ feet) which helps reduce the octane needs a bit, but I strongly suggest going with a fairly conservative tune.

[WrxToBeamerGuy]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Routine fluid changes and analytical are great practices for sure. Unfortunately, most catastrophic motor failures are immediate and rarely gradual.

The fact that you can only get 91 octane is a bit concerning given the power you plan to make. I'm assuming you're at altitude (3,000+ feet) which helps reduce the octane needs a bit, but I strongly suggest going with a fairly conservative tune.

EDIT: Cary did not give me a conservative safe tune I've learned a lot over the last year and a half about tuning and reading logs. This edit is for anyone scouring these posts in the future.

ORIGINAL COMMENT: Thanks for the input. Yeah I'm at an elevation of 4,000 - 5,000ft. Yes, I have a custom tune from Cary Jordan and I plan to use him again after I do these upgrades I'm fairly certain he was super conservative with his last tune on my car.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by WrxToBeamerGuy

Thanks for the input. Yeah I'm at an elevation of 4,000 - 5,000ft. Yes, I have a custom tune from Cary Jordan and I plan to use him again after I do these upgrades I'm fairly certain he was super conservative with his last tune on my car.

Nice. That car is gonna haul some butt especially with an xdrive launch capability. The B58 is damn impressive.

[G_B58]

Wouldn't meth help protect from knock and boost the octane?

[_N54]

Originally Posted by G_B58

Wouldn't meth help protect from knock and boost the octane?

Of course, but it does come with downside and I guess majority talk about the distribution on the B58 manifold. I ran the BMS kit in the past through the throttle body with the plate, but if I had to do it again I would probably run a single nozzle through the charge pipe so it has a bit more time to atomize before entering the intake manifold. I was also running 100% meth, but I wouldn't do anything over a 60/40 mix or max 80/20 mix. You want to have some water in there to help with the intake cooling and to raise the boiling point of the methanol. I believe the boiling point is around 140F and I've injected with my intake temps around 140F so I wouldn't be surprised if it was injecting some invisible flames into my engine Currently on my 335is I'm running a 60/40 mix for intake cooling purposes and I'll be adding in port injection to run full E85.