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      07-18-2018, 08:50 AM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thug108 View Post
I have kw DDC on order for my f30. should be here in a week
interested to hear how you'll like it. i see KW updated the US site to show the DDC coils online.

http://www.kwsuspensions.com/product...-39020018.html
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      07-19-2018, 08:15 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by R32DBP View Post
interested to hear how you'll like it. i see KW updated the US site to show the DDC coils online.

http://www.kwsuspensions.com/product...-39020018.html
The KW DDC for EDC just deletes the "OE EDC" and you use their controller. It doesn't support integrating BMW's EDC logic into the shock.
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      07-19-2018, 08:49 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by Tchao View Post
The KW DDC for EDC just deletes the "OE EDC" and you use their controller. It doesn't support integrating BMW's EDC logic into the shock.
That's not true for the Plug and Play version. See this thread.
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      07-19-2018, 09:19 PM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tchao View Post
The KW DDC for EDC just deletes the "OE EDC" and you use their controller. It doesn't support integrating BMW's EDC logic into the shock.
Like FaRKle! said, not true. KW makes a DDC that is Plug and Play that is exactly that - it connects directly to the EDC of the car. I had it installed recently. Works great.

They also make what you are referencing, which can be installed for vehicles without an existing EDC system. It adds additional KW controllers.

http://www.kwsuspensions.com/ddc
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      07-19-2018, 09:39 PM   #159
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yup. eleven11 broke it down perfectly. I've been eyeing the KW DDC coils for a bit as I read someone from the UK I believe who put it on his 1 series.
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      07-20-2018, 02:41 PM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eleven11 View Post
Like FaRKle! said, not true. KW makes a DDC that is Plug and Play that is exactly that - it connects directly to the EDC of the car. I had it installed recently. Works great.

They also make what you are referencing, which can be installed for vehicles without an existing EDC system. It adds additional KW controllers.

http://www.kwsuspensions.com/ddc
Interesting....Im wondering if the non-EDC kit is the same as the EDC kit, and a signal modifier added to use the OE system to adjust the same preset conditions the non-EDC kit has.

Our cars comes with adaptive dampeners, which should change on variables like steering angle, speed, etc.

I wonder if the KW kit uses the adaptiveness or just has static preset modes.

Heres the screen shot that made me think otherwise.
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      07-20-2018, 04:58 PM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tchao View Post
Interesting....Im wondering if the non-EDC kit is the same as the EDC kit, and a signal modifier added to use the OE system to adjust the same preset conditions the non-EDC kit has.

Our cars comes with adaptive dampeners, which should change on variables like steering angle, speed, etc.

I wonder if the KW kit uses the adaptiveness or just has static preset modes.

Heres the screen shot that made me think otherwise.
That screencap is certainly confusing. One thing I've learned through my research and purchase is that while KW makes a great product, their US website and customer service reps aren't the greatest. I'm sure some reps are great, so no disrespect with my blanket statement. For my vehicle, it was listed as not compatible. I spoke with several phone reps who gave me conflicting info on the part number, and details about the DDC system.

The information out their is vague, but I came away with the understanding that the KW Plug & Play system communicates with the BMW sensors in real-time (not just static), like the OEM system. I'm not sure if adding the non-Plug & Play DDC system to a vehicle is anything beyond a static setting.
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      07-22-2018, 10:25 PM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eleven11 View Post
The information out their is vague, but I came away with the understanding that the KW Plug & Play system communicates with the BMW sensors in real-time (not just static), like the OEM system. I'm not sure if adding the non-Plug & Play DDC system to a vehicle is anything beyond a static setting.

A good way to test, if you have the opportunity to, is to make a sweeping left/right turn w/ a small bump or road imperfection, and test the feel at slow speeds and high speeds on sport setting. If it is in fact adaptive, it should feel dampened at slower speed and a bit harsh and non compliant at higher speeds.

I know KW is a great product, as the hundreds of thousands of previous BMW owners would attest, but it would not make sense do develop an entirely new dampener just for F3x EDC folks, and offer another DDC model for non-EDC BMWs. It would make more sense to adapt the same product for the entire chassis offerings, and revalve & spring for different chassis.

I think this is why Bilstein is taking forever also, maybe in their best interest to just adapt an existing product from Porsche or other VAG offerings to the F3x EDC cars, as the market isnt that big compared to F80 and other M-markets.
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      07-23-2018, 05:49 AM   #163
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The EDC system is supposed to kick in above 30km/h (20mph give or take), and I think i feel a difference below and above 30kmh on the same bumpy road where it's better above, but who knows.

My view is, since bmw system are going to feed realtime data anyway, i don't see why they wouldn't use those to adjust dampers in realtime too, but that's obviously no proof.
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      07-23-2018, 05:27 PM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancelot View Post
The EDC system is supposed to kick in above 30km/h (20mph give or take), and I think i feel a difference below and above 30kmh on the same bumpy road where it's better above, but who knows.

My view is, since bmw system are going to feed realtime data anyway, i don't see why they wouldn't use those to adjust dampers in realtime too, but that's obviously no proof.
All you have to do is drive over a speed bump and you can feel the difference between COMFORT and SPORT/SPORT+ modes. I drive over 2 speed bumps coming in and out of my condo complex and it is very clear (with OEM dampers).
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      07-23-2018, 07:12 PM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tchao View Post
A good way to test, if you have the opportunity to, is to make a sweeping left/right turn w/ a small bump or road imperfection, and test the feel at slow speeds and high speeds on sport setting. If it is in fact adaptive, it should feel dampened at slower speed and a bit harsh and non compliant at higher speeds.

I know KW is a great product, as the hundreds of thousands of previous BMW owners would attest, but it would not make sense do develop an entirely new dampener just for F3x EDC folks, and offer another DDC model for non-EDC BMWs. It would make more sense to adapt the same product for the entire chassis offerings, and revalve & spring for different chassis.

I think this is why Bilstein is taking forever also, maybe in their best interest to just adapt an existing product from Porsche or other VAG offerings to the F3x EDC cars, as the market isnt that big compared to F80 and other M-markets.
I'll try that out sometime. I understand what you're saying about making a specific F30 damper. However, I'd think they can simply use the OEM realtime algorithms and communicate the date to-and-from the KW (same as the OEM EDC coilovers). Whereas, the non-EDC DDC setup simply has an fixed variable for each setting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
All you have to do is drive over a speed bump and you can feel the difference between COMFORT and SPORT/SPORT+ modes. I drive over 2 speed bumps coming in and out of my condo complex and it is very clear (with OEM dampers).
Without question. However, what we're talking about isn't the obvious fixed changes that occur between modes, but the realtime adaptations the system makes multiple times per second (depending on your driving conditions). We're not 100% if the KW Plug & Play DDC coilovers do this (like the OEM system), or if they're simply a fixed dampening for each mode.
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      07-25-2018, 05:32 AM   #166
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I've personally owned several (semi-affordable) performance cars. Many were bought with modified suspensions, others I modified them for my personal taste. None of the mentioned cars had any form of adaptive suspension from the factory.
Currently, I have a 2015 335i M-sport with adaptive suspension and a 2018 Porsche 718 Cayman with PASM (Porsche Active Suspension Management). I would personally recommend against modifying an OEM adaptive style suspension. I would consider aftermarket springs, anti-roll bars, maybe even camber plates for OEM adaptive suspensions. But I can't imagine an aftermarket company (even reputable companies such as Dinan, Bilstein, etc...) making a better (think OEM R&D dollars vs aftermarket R&D dollars) adaptive shock absorber than OEM.
That being said, if your car doesn't have OEM adaptive suspension and are looking to upgrade into one, then aftermarket adaptive style suspension makes complete sense. That being said, I am considering lowering springs for my adaptive suspension. I also like the idea of Dinans ECU tuning management for BMW's adaptive suspension.
Obviously, this is just my opinion...
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      07-26-2018, 04:49 PM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TEST DRYVER View Post
I've personally owned several (semi-affordable) performance cars. Many were bought with modified suspensions, others I modified them for my personal taste. None of the mentioned cars had any form of adaptive suspension from the factory.
Currently, I have a 2015 335i M-sport with adaptive suspension and a 2018 Porsche 718 Cayman with PASM (Porsche Active Suspension Management). I would personally recommend against modifying an OEM adaptive style suspension. I would consider aftermarket springs, anti-roll bars, maybe even camber plates for OEM adaptive suspensions. But I can't imagine an aftermarket company (even reputable companies such as Dinan, Bilstein, etc...) making a better (think OEM R&D dollars vs aftermarket R&D dollars) adaptive shock absorber than OEM.
That being said, if your car doesn't have OEM adaptive suspension and are looking to upgrade into one, then aftermarket adaptive style suspension makes complete sense. That being said, I am considering lowering springs for my adaptive suspension. I also like the idea of Dinans ECU tuning management for BMW's adaptive suspension.
Obviously, this is just my opinion...
I respectfully disagree with your premise that for some reason the aftermarket is incapable of producing a better active damper system than OEM. Especially when simultaneously changing other suspension components like springs.

My position is aftermarket active dampers are just like any other aftermarket part. The aftermarket manufacturer can use higher quality components and focus the design to a narrower performance window than OEM. Of course this isn't a given so buyer beware, but to me it's just silly to section off active dampers as the one OEM part that can't be bettered by the aftermarket.
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      07-27-2018, 04:36 AM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
I respectfully disagree with your premise that for some reason the aftermarket is incapable of producing a better active damper system than OEM. Especially when simultaneously changing other suspension components like springs.

My position is aftermarket active dampers are just like any other aftermarket part. The aftermarket manufacturer can use higher quality components and focus the design to a narrower performance window than OEM. Of course this isn't a given so buyer beware, but to me it's just silly to section off active dampers as the one OEM part that can't be bettered by the aftermarket.
That's fair and understandable. I guess only roping off active dampers from other aftermarket parts is unfair. Especially when other OEM parts can sometimes easily be bettered by the aftermarket world. That's why I say my comment is an opinion.
The modern OEM dampers from several manufacturers have become so good, it's difficult to see or feel any real world noticeable gains from the aftermarket. Admittedly, my comment doesn't have real validity, simply because my experience with aftermarket active dampers is limited (I've driven 3-4 cars), but my experience with driving different cars with OEM active dampers is extensive.
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      07-29-2018, 11:29 PM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TEST DRYVER View Post
But I can't imagine an aftermarket company (even reputable companies such as Dinan, Bilstein, etc...) making a better (think OEM R&D dollars vs aftermarket R&D dollars) adaptive shock absorber than OEM.
This engineer seems to agree with your assessment.
https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...light=adaptive

But I do think Bilstein would be the closest to OEM engineering, since they are OEM for BMW and Porsche's adaptive products, and know how the systems works intimately, all the way to BMW's control models/logic etc...



Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
All you have to do is drive over a speed bump and you can feel the difference between COMFORT and SPORT/SPORT+ modes. I drive over 2 speed bumps coming in and out of my condo complex and it is very clear (with OEM dampers).
That is not adaptive aspect at play, yes the car rides harder, but there are more features than just static stiffer than comfort.

The system is adaptive, as it gets even harder/softer dampening when the car is moving at certain speeds, steering angle, gas/brake input....
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