[LuciasD]

What are people using for midranges in the factory location and how do they image/sound. Not really interested in drop in speakers (bav, alphaone, etc.) SQ is the goal and I'm trying to be more budget conscious with this build so $200+ drivers are probably not in the mix unless I can find some used.

Whatever option I choose will be amplified via match up 7/similar or separate amp&dsp with at least 50W/channel.

Options I'm considering
Dayton RS100P
Scanspeak 10F/4424G
SB acoustics SB12CACS25

[NealfromNZ]

Second hand audiofrog gs40 ? Otherwise $242 new

[Billfitz]

Before doing any speaker swapping install the MatchUp and tune the DSP. The lack of a good DSP is by far the main shortcoming of the OEM setup. If I was to make a change of the midranges this would be my choice: https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.co...-woofer-4-ohm/

[LuciasD]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

Before doing any speaker swapping install the MatchUp and tune the DSP. The lack of a good DSP is by far the main shortcoming of the OEM setup. If I was to make a change of the midranges this would be my choice: https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.co...-woofer-4-ohm/

Have you listened to this? This is actually on my list but it's off axis response looked a little weird and the sensitivity was very low to match with other drivers. I've listened to some of their other drivers and they seemed to have a good value balance.

[NealfromNZ]

BTW those SBs look a quite deep, not sure you'd be able to space them out enough unless going to modify door card and remove oem grill and spacer behind. Would need 20mm plus spacers to have door glass clearance.

[Billfitz]

Originally Posted by LuciasD

Have you listened to this? This is actually on my list but it's off axis response looked a little weird and the sensitivity was very low to match with other drivers. I've listened to some of their other drivers and they seemed to have a good value balance.

I haven't listened to them. When you have sufficient data, and know what it means, it's not necessary. Their sensitivity isn't lower than average, and the off axis response is better than most. It doesn't look so good above 5kHz, but that's moot since the tweeters handle that. The dispersion, high xmax and reasonable price are why I'd use those if I was inclined to make a change. BTW, the Scanspeak and SB Acoustics Qts is way too low for use in doors.

[LuciasD]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

I haven't listened to them. When you have sufficient data, and know what it means, it's not necessary. Their sensitivity isn't lower than average, and the off axis response is better than most. It doesn't look so good above 5kHz, but that's moot since the tweeters handle that. The dispersion, high xmax and reasonable price are why I'd use those if I was inclined to make a change. BTW, the Scanspeak and SB Acoustics Qts is way too low for use in doors.

Thanks for the info and I see what you mean Billfitz.

Talking in generalities, low qts isn't great for door installations bc of the massive enclosure size/pseudo IB setup. That being said the tradeoff is usually in output (db) as the drivers will reach their physical xmax/distort quite early. My experience is almost exclusively with larger drivers (6.5"+) and it was my belief that if you crossed the driver over very high above it's fs, eg. multiple octaves, it isn't as much an issue? Also, since these are midranges not playing very low I didn't think it would be a huge issue but that's why I seek advice.

Thanks

[Billfitz]

Low Qts works well in ported or horn loaded enclosures, higher Qts works better in sealed. For the most part you don't want to cross over more than one octave above Fs, as that means the Mms is higher than it needs to be, resulting in a loss of sensitivity.

[LuciasD]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

Low Qts works well in ported or horn loaded enclosures, higher Qts works better in sealed. For the most part you don't want to cross over more than one octave above Fs, as that means the Mms is higher than it needs to be, resulting in a loss of sensitivity.

I appreciate the input. Those drivers seem interesting. Anyone know what the cutout diameter for door card is? I think these will need a spacer for them to fit, I haven't measured them yet.

[Billfitz]

The door card should be OK as is, although a spacer for the grille might be required. The door sheet metal might need to be nibbled.

[LuciasD]

Checked out the door dimensions. The 4.5" aluminum driver will need to be cut out or filed ever so slightly to fit, and the 3.5" paper version will need a small adapter ring or plate.

The power handling is low, but I think it will get close to as loud as I like turn it up. I also prefer the off FR and off-axis characteristics of the 3.5" better than the 4.5" but that driver doesn't go very low. Might not be an issue but I'm new to this vehicle. What are people setting the crossovers at? I just got a PP86DSP amp so I have some flexibility setting some of the crossover points. I still haven't decided if it's worth it to rewire everything for active on my daily.

Either way I think I'll eventually put one of these two variants in

[Billfitz]

I looked at the 3.5 inch, it doesn't go low enough. The crossover from underseats is around 125Hz, to tweeters around 4kHz.

[NealfromNZ]

For 3.5s did you look at the SI M3 carbon ?

If you can wait for the next batch they are pre ordered at a lower price at the moment.

Would obviously need spacing out. I’ve read that somewhere that 40 mm beyond the door opening will hit glass, but didn’t confirm mounting depth with cailpiers. 12mm spacer would do it. Could possibly cross these over 200 -220

https://stereointegrity.com/product/m3-carbon-midrange/

[Billfitz]

They don't look all that bad but the price is absurd. It's twice what I'd pay for a midrange.

[NealfromNZ]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

They don't look all that bad but the price is absurd. It's twice what I'd pay for a midrange.

Still within orginal bugdet of this post. But in car audio where production runs are low volume these are quite good for mids. Designed for IB use so ideal for doors , carbon cone would no doubt be ok for a bit of moisture.

Compared to Morel Elite or Focal Utopia mids , BRAX etc I don’t think there are at the absurd spectrum of car audio options.

[LuciasD]

The only place I can seem to source those 4.5" drivers is overseas. I think the 3.5"s could work but obviously at a much higher crossover point. For now I'm undecided. I see a lot of posts running where individuals are running the midbasses all the way up around 200hz but that's a little high to me. I imagine the imaging would suffer.

[NealfromNZ]

Originally Posted by LuciasD

The only place I can seem to source those 4.5" drivers is overseas. I think the 3.5"s could work but obviously at a much higher crossover point. For now I'm undecided. I see a lot of posts running where individuals are running the midbasses all the way up around 200hz but that's a little high to me. I imagine the imaging would suffer.

In practice it’s not as much as you think it might be. I started at 150 and sit at 175 currently. I’ve tried up to 230hz which sounded ok , but do like a bit of upper bass coming from the doors. I know of a few higher end BMW systems where doors are running between 200 - 300hz , the later using Focal Utopia 3.5s at 300hz. With my own RTAs the undersea woofers both hk and morels sweeps were fine to 500hz and more linear than you’d think considering the seats are in the way. Wouldn’t suggest running to 500 but 200s would be fine. But at 175hz I have a nice wide image that sits above the dash and out to the hood with reasonably modest gear.

[NealfromNZ]

Forgot to add this link for the si m3s