[gameson]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

The CSF is a 5.5” (depth) core and the VRSF competition is 6.5”
The CSF is 26lbs and the VRSF is 27lbs
The CSF has 15-16 fins per in on the exterior core the VRSF is 18 fin per inch
The CSF is $600 and the VRSF $420
Both should fit with no issues

You will not get turbo lag with the VRSF, as confirmed by many members here including LYTSOUT

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1752195

VRSF’s qc can leave some to be be desired, but the performance does not.

for my purpose (N20 EWG with xhp trans tune and bm3 stage 2 with HW upgraded charge pipe, turbo pipe, downpipe, exhaust, and in the future intake, although some members here saying stock intake is already CAI), is the VRSF performance enough or i should just pay the extra $40 and get competition instead?

i don't plan to go beyond that mod.

thanks.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

I went from the VRSF 5'' to the VRSF race. They lowered their race price to compete with the other new race ICs on the market. Frankly its incredible value for what you get...

Here's a 0-150 mph pull with the race. IATs end where they started... That's basically 22 seconds of WOT

https://datazap.me/u/thejeremyman9/d...8;data=4-10-17

I'm trying to understand the VRSF intercoolers. It appears that the models are:

5" Performance
6.5" Competition
6.0" Race

Trying to understand each of their designs and the pros/cons if used with my configuration of N55 with stock N55 EWG turbo but with the fuel system upgraded to FlexFuel to run up to E85 fuel. I need an IC that will properly cool without added turbo lag.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Nice, that’s similar to how my Evo3 behaves, IAT drop in gears 1-3, flat in 4, few degrees higher in 5 & 6.

I think you’re pushing ~400whp? Any idea what ambient was that day?

Not exactly sure at that point in my drive, probably around 65F. I was also at decently high altitude, -1.5psi ambient pressure

Originally Posted by gameson

how about CSF FMIC? good FMIC?

If i get a big FMIC like VRSF competition (not performance) but with only stock turbo and bm3 stage 2 along with charge pipe changed and downpipe changed, would i still get turbo lag?

I had stock, then 5'' stepped, then race. There is no turbo lag on the race. The most noticeable change in throttle response / reducing "lag" is getting a good inlet like mst v2. No negative impact from 5'' to race. Get competition or race. If i could do it all over again i would have never bought the 5'' given the minimal price differences but i was a bit of a noob when i was first buying mods (and IC+CP were my first).

Originally Posted by gameson

for my purpose (N20 EWG with xhp trans tune and bm3 stage 2 with HW upgraded charge pipe, turbo pipe, downpipe, exhaust, and in the future intake, although some members here saying stock intake is already CAI), is the VRSF performance enough or i should just pay the extra $40 and get competition instead?

i don't plan to go beyond that mod.

thanks.

N20 will be running even more boost. Get competition or race. and keep stock intake.

Originally Posted by johnung

I'm trying to understand the VRSF intercoolers. It appears that the models are:

5" Performance
6.5" Competition
6.0" Race

Trying to understand each of their designs and the pros/cons if used with my configuration of N55 with stock N55 EWG turbo but with the fuel system upgraded to FlexFuel to run up to E85 fuel. I need an IC that will properly cool without added turbo lag.

The race is bigger than competition, most notably taller with more frontal surface area. Definitely dont get 5''. The competition or race can both work, but IMO no reason not to get the race.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Yeah, doesn't matter if it's race gas or ethanol, higher octane prevents pre-detonation and will allow higher IATs before timing gets pulled. Very handy for summer track days.

No lag at all. In fact response got better, and is backed up Wagner's pressure drop charts comparing the Evo2 & Evo3. The Evo3 trades density for frontal area and volume to keep low to no lag while keeping IATs in check. Their larger custom inlet/outlet diameters and piping also helps.

Altho, if you're not doing summer track days, I think you're probably fine with something like the do88 IC. Just stay away from the Evo2.

I have a 2015 335i XDrive with an N55 EWG engine. In the description for the Wagner EVO3 it says "not suitable for XDrive models." Do you have any idea why?

I suspect maybe it has something to do with the chargepipe shape maybe being different in RWD vs XDrive? (I would assume that the TIC pipe is the same but I haven't verified that.) I gather from reading that the EVO3 uses larger IC openings and provides larger piping that maybe doesn't adapt to the XDrive chargepipe?

Do you know if the XDrive incompatibility is more that a chargepipe issue?

Maybe there is a work around to fit the EVO3 to an XDrive?

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by johnung

I have a 2015 335i XDrive with an N55 EWG engine. In the description for the Wagner EVO3 it says "not suitable for XDrive models." Do you have any idea why?

I suspect maybe it has something to do with the chargepipe shape maybe being different in RWD vs XDrive? (I would assume that the TIC pipe is the same but I haven't verified that.) I gather from reading that the EVO3 uses larger IC openings and provides larger piping that maybe doesn't adapt to the XDrive chargepipe?

Do you know if the XDrive incompatibility is more that a chargepipe issue?

Maybe there is a work around to fit the EVO3 to an XDrive?

I couldn’t tell you about xdrive. It’s not supposed to fit the M2, but we crammed it in there: https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1727351

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by johnung

I have a 2015 335i XDrive with an N55 EWG engine. In the description for the Wagner EVO3 it says "not suitable for XDrive models." Do you have any idea why?

I suspect maybe it has something to do with the chargepipe shape maybe being different in RWD vs XDrive? (I would assume that the TIC pipe is the same but I haven't verified that.) I gather from reading that the EVO3 uses larger IC openings and provides larger piping that maybe doesn't adapt to the XDrive chargepipe?

Do you know if the XDrive incompatibility is more that a chargepipe issue?

Maybe there is a work around to fit the EVO3 to an XDrive?

Not that the Evo 3 is bad, but it's a steep price to pay for a Race Core - why not consider the BMS (which is nearly identical to the VRSF Race) From what I hear, they have solid fit and finish, and they are around the same cost.

@mike@x-ph.com

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Not exactly sure at that point in my drive, probably around 65F. I was also at decently high altitude, -1.5psi ambient pressure



I had stock, then 5'' stepped, then race. There is no turbo lag on the race. The most noticeable change in throttle response / reducing "lag" is getting a good inlet like mst v2. No negative impact from 5'' to race. Get competition or race. If i could do it all over again i would have never bought the 5'' given the minimal price differences but i was a bit of a noob when i was first buying mods (and IC+CP were my first).



N20 will be running even more boost. Get competition or race. and keep stock intake.



The race is bigger than competition, most notably taller with more frontal surface area. Definitely dont get 5''. The competition or race can both work, but IMO no reason not to get the race.

This is the way.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Not that the Evo 3 is bad, but it's a steep price to pay for a Race Core - why not consider the BMS (which is nearly identical to the VRSF Race) From what I hear, they have solid fit and finish, and they are around the same cost.

@mike@x-ph.com

If you already have your pipes and aren't tracking your car, I agree--VRSF or BMS Race are great bang for the buck.

If don't have your pipes yet, and track and want something solidly mounted to the crash bumper, Evo3.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Not that the Evo 3 is bad, but it's a steep price to pay for a Race Core - why not consider the BMS (which is nearly identical to the VRSF Race) From what I hear, they have solid fit and finish, and they are around the same cost.

@mike@x-ph.com

Thanks for the tip. I appreciate it.
At this point I'm collecting as many FMIC recommendations and as much data as I can. My methodology has always been to be all inclusive at first to find out every possibility, and then rank parts technically as to how they fit my requirements.

Price is a factor that I usually consider at the end. In the past sometimes the technical or other benefits convince me that the price may be worth it. (That happened with the Fabspeed HJS catted downpipe.) Or sometimes I'd never pay the price even if a part is technically the best, but I get lucky and someone is selling that item used for a great price.

I've got at least a couple of weeks so we'll see what happens.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Lots of really good options are now available, it's a matter of budget and what the customer's end goal is.

If you plan on tracking the car on regular basis, invest in the Wagner EVO III. If it's a street car, the cheaper options are a better value.

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Not that the Evo 3 is bad, but it's a steep price to pay for a Race Core - why not consider the BMS (which is nearly identical to the VRSF Race) From what I hear, they have solid fit and finish, and they are around the same cost.

@mike@x-ph.com

MAD 7" high-density race is identical to the BMS race intercooler and is on 30% sale this month.

The tag does not work
I remember someone showing me how to tag a vendor correctly but i forgot how it's done.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

Lots of really good options are now available, it's a matter of budget and what the customer's end goal is.

If you plan on tracking the car on regular basis, invest in the Wagner EVO III. If it's a street car, the cheaper options are a better value.




MAD 7" high-density race is identical to the BMS race intercooler and is on 30% sale this month.

The tag does not work
I remember someone showing me how to tag a vendor correctly but i forgot how it's done.

Is it really? Weight, fins and height?

I know I've tagged a vendor before but no idea how I did it. An attempt was made.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Is it really? Weight, fins and height?

I know I've tagged a vendor before but no idea how I did it. An attempt was made.

From everything I have seen, they are very close.

I have a MAD 7" in stock, I can get all the specs.

[gameson]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

N20 will be running even more boost. Get competition or race. and keep stock intake.

ok, i will buy the competition 6.5" VRSF, just curious, if somewhat in the future, if i upgrade stock turbo (a BIG if), would the competition 6.5" capable of handling the increase turbo?

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by johnung

I'm trying to understand the VRSF intercoolers. It appears that the models are:

5" Performance
6.5" Competition
6.0" Race

Trying to understand each of their designs and the pros/cons if used with my configuration of N55 with stock N55 EWG turbo but with the fuel system upgraded to FlexFuel to run up to E85 fuel. I need an IC that will properly cool without added turbo lag.

I measured it - the Race is 6.5" deep. It's basically the same as the COMP model, but a little taller (about 3-4")

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

From everything I have seen, they are very close.

I have a MAD 7" in stock, I can get all the specs.

Measurements of all dimensions of the MAD 7'' would be helpful (including both steps and fin density), AFAIK no one on the forums has purchased it yet. I have measurements of VRSF race i can post for comparison purposes. I saw the 30% off, and its no doubt a good price point, but someone has to be the guinea pig to collect real world data on it.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Measurements of all dimensions of the MAD 7'' would be helpful (including both steps and fin density), AFAIK no one on the forums has purchased it yet. I have measurements of VRSF race i can post for comparison purposes. I saw the 30% off, and its no doubt a good price point, but someone has to be the guinea pig to collect real world data on it.

I'll get the measurements either today or tomorrow , not sure about other dealers or MAD directly, but we sold over 50 units of the 7" Race. With 2 positive reviews posted on the website

[sqwinny]

Originally Posted by gameson

ok, i will buy the competition 6.5" VRSF, just curious, if somewhat in the future, if i upgrade stock turbo (a BIG if), would the competition 6.5" capable of handling the increase turbo?

No issues with CSF/ATM and stage 2 turbo (n20). I can post logs later if you want. Car doesn't have lag due to the bigger IC either.

From tuning and logging pulls from last week. Pulls are from around 4-5 PM or so Back to back so it's not cold evening air. Maybe 20-25 second between each pull due to a slight turn in the road. 86-96F, then 88-96F. It's pretty consistent.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=6184...729b695b071b0c

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=6184...0b430f4af98e3f


I'm making around 365 whp on 93 oct. Will dyno it soon to confirm but now temps are 15-20 degrees cooler than normal for Miami weather. Not sure if the 6.5" comp will lag on an n20, then again there are people running the ER raceworks/mishimoto IC as well however haven't chimed in onto how much power or if lag is present.

[mike@x-ph.com]

[johnung]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

Lots of really good options are now available, it's a matter of budget and what the customer's end goal is.

If you plan on tracking the car on regular basis, invest in the Wagner EVO III. If it's a street car, the cheaper options are a better value.

MAD 7" high-density race is identical to the BMS race intercooler and is on 30% sale this month.

The tag does not work
I remember someone showing me how to tag a vendor correctly but i forgot how it's done.

Thanks for the information, Mike. The car is a 2015 335i XDrive. The Wagner EVO3 description notes says "not suitable for XDrive models". Do you know anyone who has installed an EVO3 in an F30 XDrive? Is it incompatibility with the XDrive charge pipe? Or something more?

I'm wondering if a sleeve might connect the EVO3 pipe to the throttle body half of an ER XDrive charge pipe?

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

Attachment 2738232

Attachment 2738233

Attachment 2738234

Attachment 2738235

Attachment 2738236

Attachment 2738237

Awesome, and thank you! 6" depth (6" for the bottom, 3" for the top) 16F/in - It's legit.

[thejeremyman9]

Looks pretty much identical to VRSF race i think, ill try and upload pics later today.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Looks pretty much identical to VRSF race i think, ill try and upload pics later today.

Wondering if anyone has seen the new race intercooler from Pro Tuning Freaks/ Bootmod3? Below are photo and link. Only specs are that it has 9 rows and 6 rows. No dimensions but it looks similar to others.

https://bootmod3.com/collections/boo...13-n20-n26-n55