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      03-05-2017, 06:26 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
As William Shakespeare wrote in 'The Merchant of Venice' play: "All that glisters is not gold."
But does the N55 really meet the 2018 emission standards?
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      03-05-2017, 12:40 PM   #90
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Until September 2018 it does (in EU).
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      03-06-2017, 02:07 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by Benef1cient View Post
Until September 2018 it does (in EU).
Source for this claim?
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      03-06-2017, 06:19 AM   #92
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Source for this claim?
6c comes to life in 2017/2018 as next step in reaching lower emissions target by 2020 - SOURCE

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CO2 legislation in Europe – with 130g/km as a fleet average starting in 2012 and the discussion of 95g/km in 2020 – requires a significant CO2 reduction of existing power trains. Diesel engines are known to be beneficial regarding CO2 emissions. However, higher costs limit their market share and thus impact on CO2 fleet emission reduction potential, especially in cost sensitive vehicle segments. In the area of gasoline engine development, downsizing has moved from a “mega” trend to a well established engine technology in Europe. Hyundai-Kia’s all-new Kappa T-GDI engine family is developed to be a downsizing concept replacing e.g. a 1.6l naturally aspirated engine in B and C-segment with the aim to reduce CO2 emissions. The associated low end torque benefit enhances “fun to drive” for the customer. With Euro 6 starting in 2014, not only CO2 and standard emissions like HC, CO and NOx will be in the focus of engine development, but also Particle Number (PN) and Mass (PM).

In order to achieve Euro 6c PN-emission targets, more than a 95% PN reduction over a Euro 5 calibration is required. A major portion of this required PN reduction can be achieved by increasing fuel pressure at part load to 150 to 200bar in combination with optimized cam and start of injection timing. In order to achieve the Euro 6c PN emission target, additional combustion development is required. Injector layout and spray targeting can be optimized by means of in-cylinder optical investigations and result in BSFC as well as PN reduction.

From a technical point of view, the upcoming Euro 6c legislation limit can be fulfilled either by combustion development or by after treatment. For a single vehicle, the Particle Number limit – including a safety margin – can be fulfilled by combustion development only and thus without a gasoline particle filter. The real challenge is to maintain this level for mass production as well as for the life time of the vehicle.
Talking about (changing) lifetime emissions value they are also changing the way that cars will be tested as mentioned here - SOURCE

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The problem right now, as the Commission has pointed out time and again, is that laboratory tests do not accurately reflect the amount of air pollution emitted during real driving conditions.
That is why the Commission has been working hard to bring light into this area. We have already reformed the way tests should be conducted so they reflect actual emissions in real driving conditions. Now, Member States have agreed that from 1 September 2017 these new real driving emissions (RDE) tests will determine whether a new car model is allowed to be put on the market.
Commissioner Elżbieta Bieńkowska, responsible for Internal Market, Industry, Entrepreneurship and SMEs, said: “The EU is the first and only region in the world to mandate these robust testing methods. And this is not the end of the story. We will complement this important step with a revision of the framework regulation on type-approval and market surveillance of motor vehicles. We are working hard to present a proposal to strengthen the type-approval system and reinforce the independence of vehicle testing. We are listening to the many views expressed and ideas put forward, and I thank the European Parliament in particular for its valuable input."
The technical regulatory committee gathering Member States representatives agreed today that the new RDE test will have a binding impact on the type-approvals issued by the national type-approval authority (TAA) from September 2017 for all newly approved types of vehicles (from September 2019 for all new vehicles).
Given technical limits to improving the real world emission performance of currently produced diesel cars in the short-term, Member States agreed that car manufacturers must reduce the divergence between the regulatory limit that is tested in laboratory conditions and the values of the RDE procedure when the car is driven by a real driver on a real road (the so-called "conformity factor") in two steps:
in a first step, car manufacturers will have to bring down the discrepancy to a conformity factor of maximum 2.1 (110%) for new models by September 2017 (for new vehicles by September 2019);
in a second step, this discrepancy will be brought down to a factor of 1.5 (50%), taking account of technical margins of error, by January 2020 for all new models (by January 2021 for all new vehicles).
Today's agreement by Member States on the allowed divergence between the regulatory limit measured in real driving conditions and measured in laboratory conditions is still a significant reduction compared to the current discrepancy (400% on average).
Background
Over the past few years, the Commission has been working with determination to tighten up both the actual NOx emissions limits and the testing procedures.
Nitrogen oxide (NOx) emissions limits for diesel vehicles have been tightened as follows (all application dates to new emission type approvals, application to all new vehicles always 1 year later):
January 2000: 500 mg/km (Euro3)
January 2005: 250 mg/km (Euro 4)
September 2009: 180 mg/km (Euro 5)
September 2014: 80 mg/km (Euro 6)
Now, the introduction of new RDE testing methods is a further tightening of the screws. According to Commission data, currently produced Euro 6 diesel cars exceed the NOx limit 4-5 times (400%) on average in real driving conditions compared to laboratory testing.
The new RDE test procedure was voted in May 2015 by the relevant regulatory committee (Technical Committee of Motor Vehicles - TCMV) and will come into force early 2016. The RDE procedure will complement the laboratory based procedure to check that the emission levels of nitrogen oxides (NOx), and at a later stage also particle numbers (PN), measured during the laboratory test are confirmed in real driving conditions. This means that the car will be driven outside and on a real road according to random acceleration and deceleration patterns. The pollutant emissions will be measured by portable emission measuring systems (PEMS) that will be attached to the car. RDE testing will significantly reduce the currently observed differences between emissions measured in the laboratory, and those measured on road under real-world conditions, and to a great extent limit the risk of cheating with a defeat device. During the initial phase starting January 2016, the portable RDE testing system will be used for monitoring purposes.

Last edited by Benef1cient; 03-06-2017 at 06:31 AM..
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      03-06-2017, 12:25 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
The new E-Klasse Coupe? The "Sports Coupe" with no defining surface lines that it looks like an athlete who lost his definition and went flabby after a binge of pastries?

The best looking mid size coupe is the BMW 4er. It's outline is absolutely perfect and more importantly it has broad wheel arches especially at the rear. Unlike the Mercedes C-Klasse Coupe. And if you say Cadillac ATS Coupe or Audi A5?
I say....
Your statement about the 4er pretendedly being significantly more attractive than the E Coupé is irrelevant here because they do not compete against each other. Buyers in need of an E segment 2 door 4 seater coupé will not cross-shop towards the 4er because the 4er competes in the D segment, which simply isn't the same level of luxury. Otherwise you are implying that the 3er is on par with the 5er, which it clearly isn't.

So unless proven otherwise, it appears that Mercedes is able to clearly set apart and successfully market a C Coupé, E Coupé and S Coupé based on the respective sedans, while BMW isn't confident enough in keeping a 6er between the 4er and the 8er as a 5er coupé that it should be, and feels the need to reorient the 6er to some new segment (2+2 911 rival?). But if the 6er does indeed become a sporty 4 seater coupé variant of the 5er as it should, then I see no problem
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      03-06-2017, 02:46 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benef1cient View Post
6c comes to life in 2017/2018 as next step in reaching lower emissions target by 2020 - SOURCE
This only applies to the fleet. Meaning that BMW's entire fleet average should have CO2 emission rate of 95g/km. That means everything between a base Mini to Rolls Royce. Nothing about a specific engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benef1cient View Post
Talking about (changing) lifetime emissions value they are also changing the way that cars will be tested as mentioned here - SOURCE
This talks about a change on how they are going to conduct emission tests. It will apply to new models from September 2017 and all new cars from September 2019.


Nothing about the 2018 and N55. In fact, we know that N55 will be used in F16 until 07/19
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      03-06-2017, 02:54 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
The new E-Klasse Coupe? The "Sports Coupe" with no defining surface lines that it looks like an athlete who lost his definition and went flabby after a binge of pastries?

The best looking mid size coupe is the BMW 4er. It's outline is absolutely perfect and more importantly it has broad wheel arches especially at the rear. Unlike the Mercedes C-Klasse Coupe. And if you say Cadillac ATS Coupe or Audi A5?
I say....
Well. Of the mass market cars maybe. Otherwise Maserati comes to mind. Or maybe Tesla.
Or Aston Martin if talking 2dr.
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