[Boostedphil698]

Looks like ET3 quietly released an EKP that can run a dual pump setup. Not sure how, but have a look here. https://www.amazon.com/Stage-Control...72&sr=8-1&th=1

[jjjccc]

looks like all the et3 designs just added computer/video card fans. but why in world would bmw market a car 40-50,000 buks without a sufficient pump and module? and that uses a turbo which is gonna use more gas then average car is a given

[-Eidos]

Originally Posted by Boostedphil698

Looks like ET3 quietly released an EKP that can run a dual pump setup. Not sure how, but have a look here. https://www.amazon.com/Stage-Control...72&sr=8-1&th=1

If you want to drive two pumps and only have about $500 to spare then this option could work.

If you want the absolute best controller that was designed from the ground up to handle anything you could throw at it (so efficient that it doesn't rely on brute-force active cooling), then the PM4 controller by Torqbyte (Or EOS' version called the BPM4) is still the superior option.

[Boostedphil698]

Originally Posted by -Eidos

If you want to drive two pumps and only have about $500 to spare then this option could work.

If you want the absolute best controller that was designed from the ground up to handle anything you could throw at it (so efficient that it doesn't rely on brute-force active cooling), then the PM4 controller by Torqbyte (Or EOS' version called the BPM4) is still the superior option.

I agree. I actually reached out to them. They said they only sell them for the N55 in custom applications.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by jjjccc

looks like all the et3 designs just added computer/video card fans. but why in world would bmw market a car 40-50,000 buks without a sufficient pump and module? and that uses a turbo which is gonna use more gas then average car is a given

Not true. I have an ET3 Stage2. It has advanced circuitry and heat sinks, the ability to handle much higher current, high current screw terminals to prevent stock terminals from overheating/melting and a two stage built-in fan to further cool the entire unit.

The discussion is about engine upgrades that increase horsepower tremendously. Of course BMW’s stock fueling would need to be upgraded to handle that.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by Boostedphil698

I agree. I actually reached out to them. They said they only sell them for the N55 in custom applications.

What was the conversation? Anyone who is installing a dual pump LPFP setup is probably aiming at 600hp or higher. Doubling the stock engine performance is what I’d call a custom application.

[Boostedphil698]

Originally Posted by johnung

What was the conversation? Anyone who is installing a dual pump LPFP setup is probably aiming at 600hp or higher. Doubling the stock engine performance is what I’d call a custom application.

Here was there response to why they don't make plug n play kit for the BMW community. I'd have to agree with them tbh. Ultimately, if they agree to sell me a unit, I'll be going torqbyte route.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by Boostedphil698

Here was there response to why they don't make plug n play kit for the BMW community. I'd have to agree with them tbh. Ultimately, if they agree to sell me a unit, I'll be going torqbyte route.

Thanks for sharing that conversation. It reinforces my opinion that this overheating/melting issue is both an EKP and a LPFP issue. Both use the same type of connector design that incorporates low and high current wires into the same connector.

I originally thought that BMW was okay to do this because of course they engineered for stock performance. But I know at least one guy with stock EKP and stock LPFP who had a hole melted in his LPFP top hat and fuel puddled on top.

The best way for BMW to wire both the EKP and the LPFP would have been to confine low voltage thinner signaling wires, and high current thicker (12g) power & ground wires, both to their own separate suitable connectors.

ET3 Design does a great job of doing this with their Stage2 and Stage4 EKP designs. Adding the separate high current screw terminals completely eliminates the threat of overheating/melting at the EKP. Plus the high current circuitry, large heat sinks and dual stage fan eliminate the problem with the stock EKP overheating and shutting the car down.

That suddenly happened to me twice on major highways. It was freakin scary, especially since the damn ZF automatic transmission (for how much I love it) doesn’t just go into Neutral so that the car can be pushed, unless the engine is running!

So in addition to upgrading the EKP (to the ET3 Stage2), the overheating/melting has to be addressed at the LPFP top hat. Originally I bought the bulkhead high current connectors to install on the top hat and retire the high current power & ground wires away from the stock BMW connector.

But as your conversation mentioned, they are made of stainless steel which will also heat up. Probably won’t heat up as much as the stock connector, but the danger still exists. So I’m returning them.

I’m considering some other top hat solutions that I’ll be testing on my own car. Gasoline/ethanol destroy most typical wire insulation, butt connectors, ring connectors, heat shrink material, electrical tape, etc so can’t just make a trip to Home Depot for these specialty materials. I’ll post when I have a definitive LPFP top hat solution.

[Boostedphil698]

Originally Posted by johnung

Thanks for sharing that conversation. It reinforces my opinion that this overheating/melting issue is both an EKP and a LPFP issue. Both use the same type of connector design that incorporates low and high current wires into the same connector.

I originally thought that BMW was okay to do this because of course they engineered for stock performance. But I know at least one guy with stock EKP and stock LPFP who had a hole melted in his LPFP top hat and fuel puddled on top.

The best way for BMW to wire both the EKP and the LPFP would have been to confine low voltage thinner signaling wires, and high current thicker (12g) power & ground wires, both to their own separate suitable connectors.

ET3 Design does a great job of doing this with their Stage2 and Stage4 EKP designs. Adding the separate high current screw terminals completely eliminates the threat of overheating/melting at the EKP. Plus the high current circuitry, large heat sinks and dual stage fan eliminate the problem with the stock EKP overheating and shutting the car down.

That suddenly happened to me twice on major highways. It was freakin scary, especially since the damn ZF automatic transmission (for how much I love it) doesn’t just go into Neutral so that the car can be pushed, unless the engine is running!

So in addition to upgrading the EKP (to the ET3 Stage2), the overheating/melting has to be addressed at the LPFP top hat. Originally I bought the bulkhead high current connectors to install on the top hat and retire the high current power & ground wires away from the stock BMW connector.

But as [...]

Exactly. It's a lot of work to make an upgraded LPFP work on these cars. How is the 2.5 kit on stock EKP?

[johnung]

Originally Posted by Boostedphil698

Exactly. It's a lot of work to make an upgraded LPFP work on these cars. How is the 2.5 kit on stock EKP?

I have the Precision Raceworks Stage2.5v2 LPFP which has a single Walbro 535 pump. The Walbro 450, 525 and 535 all can draw more current than the stock EKP can handle without overheating. People don’t realize that the primary LPFP is running all of the time. It’s like the heart of the car pumping constantly from the moment the ignition is ON.

I’ve had the upgraded LPFP for about two years to be able to run full E85 along with my Dorch Stage2 HPFP. I think that I got away with using the stock EKP because I didn’t have full E85 in the tank all of the time and I was running Bootmod3 FlexFuel MultiMap Stage2 tunes.

There’s evidence to suggest that the stock EKP gets weaker and eventually fails over time, even just working with the stock LPFP. This is that unusual for electrical components. I have replaced a number of worn circuit breakers in the electrical panel in various homes over the years.

I really think that I was right on the edge of overheating the stock EKP with the Stage2 tune. Upon trying to start the car it suddenly died and wouldn’t start. After a tow and a lot of troubleshooting it turned out that the 20A fuse supplying power to the EKP and LPFP had blown. See photo.

When I upgraded my tune from Stage2 to Stage2+ (still Bootmod3 FlexFuel MultiMap) I think that the higher fuel flow demand of the higher boost tune, pulled more current through my worn stock EKP causing it to overheat.

After casually driving for 15 minutes we stepped on the gas to accelerate onto a major highway. The car abruptly stopped, without blowing the fuse. It wouldn’t even do limp mode. Wouldn’t restart at all. I pulled the rear right side passenger shoulder bolster off and used it to fan the stock EKP (which felt hot) in an effort to cool it down enough to restart the car.

Soon after, I evaluated upgrade options and bought the ET3 Design Stage2 EKP upgrade. No EKP overheating issues since. I’m very confident that the ET3 Stage2 EKP was the right solution. Now I need to address the potential overheating/melting issue on the LPFP top hat.

[Boostedphil698]

Originally Posted by johnung

I have the Precision Raceworks Stage2.5v2 LPFP which has a single Walbro 535 pump. The Walbro 450, 525 and 535 all can draw more current than the stock EKP can handle without overheating. People don’t realize that the primary LPFP is running all of the time. It’s like the heart of the car pumping constantly from the moment the ignition is ON.

I’ve had the upgraded LPFP for about two years to be able to run full E85 along with my Dorch Stage2 HPFP. I think that I got away with using the stock EKP because I didn’t have full E85 in the tank all of the time and I was running Bootmod3 FlexFuel MultiMap Stage2 tunes.

There’s evidence to suggest that the stock EKP gets weaker and eventually fails over time, even just working with the stock LPFP. This is that unusual for electrical components. I have replaced a number of worn circuit breakers in the electrical panel in various homes over the years.

I really think that I was right on the edge of overheating the stock EKP with the Stage2 tune. Upon trying to start the car it suddenly died and wouldn’t start. After a tow and a lot of troubleshooting it turned out that the 20A fuse supplying power to the EKP and LPFP had blown. See photo.

When I upgraded my tune from Stage2 to Stage2+ (still Bootmod3 FlexFuel MultiMap) I think that the higher fuel flow demand of the higher boost tune, pulled more current through my worn stock EKP causing it to overheat.

After casually driving for 15 minutes we stepped on the gas to accelerate onto a major highway. The car abruptly stopped, without blowing the fuse. It wouldn’t even do limp [...]

Thank you for that. At this point, until I can get some help from my local shop, I'm shelving this. I may even just run a walboro 525 as a secondary to the stock fuel pump.

[-Eidos]

Originally Posted by Boostedphil698

I agree. I actually reached out to them. They said they only sell them for the N55 in custom applications.

If you want to retain the factory top hat and assembly you can add four copper or aluminum studs (not stainless) to the top hat and run the pump power and ground through the studs instead of the factory connector. It's not super plug and play but if your fuel demand is truly high enough then bypassing the stock top hat connector will be always be a necessity if you want to do things properly.

[Boostedphil698]

Originally Posted by -Eidos

If you want to retain the factory top hat and assembly you can add four copper or aluminum studs (not stainless) to the top hat and run the power and ground through the studs instead of the factory connector. It's not super plug and play but if your fuel demand is truly high enough then bypassing the stock top hat connector will be always be a necessity if you want to do things properly.

Yeah I'll have to because I'll melt the top hat probably.

[SpeedFried]

Originally Posted by Boostedphil698

Here was there response to why they don't make plug n play kit for the BMW community. I'd have to agree with them tbh. Ultimately, if they agree to sell me a unit, I'll be going torqbyte route.

I messaged Torqbyte through their contact page. I received an immediate response from Keven Nguyen a third party distributor. He quoted me $800 for a BPM4 with wiring harness and $69 for the aluminum stud connecters.

Timing was 1 week for building the unit and 3-5 days shipping via DHL.

Seems too good to be true!

[NEWTRON]

Originally Posted by SpeedFried

I messaged Torqbyte through their contact page. I received an immediate response from Keven Nguyen a third party distributor. He quoted me $800 for a BPM4 with wiring harness and $69 for the aluminum stud connecters.

Timing was 1 week for building the unit and 3-5 days shipping via DHL.

Seems too good to be true!

Its not, That's EIDOS from a few posts up

[-Eidos]

Originally Posted by SpeedFried

I messaged Torqbyte through their contact page. I received an immediate response from Keven Nguyen a third party distributor. He quoted me $800 for a BPM4 with wiring harness and $69 for the aluminum stud connecters.

Timing was 1 week for building the unit and 3-5 days shipping via DHL.

Seems too good to be true!

Phil went the Torqbyte route a while back and documented his experience here:

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=2050182

[Boostedphil698]

Originally Posted by -Eidos

Phil went the Torqbyte route a while back and documented his experience here:

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=2050182

This is true. If you wanna run big power, it's really the only way. There is no other aftermarket solution.

[VGSON]

I may be an outlier, but im running the dual pump from precision. stage 3 setup where the 2nd pump is on a hobbs switch. Stock ekp…

[-Eidos]

Originally Posted by SpeedFried

I messaged Torqbyte through their contact page. I received an immediate response from Keven Nguyen a third party distributor. He quoted me $800 for a BPM4 with wiring harness and $69 for the aluminum stud connecters.

Timing was 1 week for building the unit and 3-5 days shipping via DHL.

Seems too good to be true!

SpeedFried 's M2 is now happily running again on his bucketed dual pump setup thanks to the BPM4!

[johnung]

If anyone wants to run a two pump LPFP system, the Stage4 EKP from ET3 makes it simple to do with no expensive controller, no Hobb Switch and no wiring all over the car. And at the same time it can solve all of the BMW problems with overheating EKP and scorching/melting at BMW connectors on the EKP and LPFP.

The solid state circuitry inside the Stage4 very simply controls both the primary and the secondary LPFP’s. The two pumps are wired directly to the Stage4’s 100A capacity terminal blocks. This is a brilliant design by Bill DiPoala who owns ET3. He has 30 patents from his career as a top engineer at Bosch. He’s a car buff who owns a BMW. He enjoys inventing solutions for car problems.

For example, my car has a Walbro/TIA Model 535 as the primary. If I want to add a secondary LPFP, I just need to buy a Walbro/TIA model 525 (because it has a check valve which the second pump needs) and hang it off the bucket. Like I said, no other controller or Hobb Switch is needed. Both connect directly to the Stage4 EKP from ET3 Design. The Stage4 EKP runs on a 50A circuit, more than enough to power two Walbro pumps running flat out.

This Walbro 535 & 525 combination will flow 6.5 liters per minute, enough to support 1000+ whp (950whp on full E85). A Dorch Stage 2.5 plus a Lift Kit can support 1000whp (770whp on full E85).

If I wanted to order this configuration from scratch it is easy. Order a Stage4 EKP from Amazon. (Only $489) See link. Email ET3 about the 50A Power Upgrade harness. Call Precision Raceworks and tell them that you want to order a dual Walbro setup with 535/525 but with no Hobb Switch or extra cabling. Just say that you want the power and ground wires from both pumps going straight through a Bulkhead Fitting on the primary pump. Precision Raceworks has been doing these types of configurations upon request.

When you receive everything, it’s plug and play. The Stage4 EKP swaps out the stock EKP. The EKP Power Harness installs with two ring connectors to power and ground studs, removing one interior trim push pin connector, and inserting those four LPFP wires into the terminal blocks and tightening with a screwdriver. It is super easy. Probably 30 minutes total.

The dual LPFP just drops in like a normal pump installation. There are plenty of videos describing that.

Inexpensive, easy way to install 1000whp worth of low pressure pump fueling, all automatically controlled by the Stage4 EKP integrated into BMW’s systems.

Hope this helps!