[johnung]

Has anyone ever dyno’d a static BM3 map versus that same octane map within MultiMap to see if performance is identical?

I’m planning some dyno testing. If someone has already proven that they are identical, then I won’t waste my time/money repeating those dyno runs. Details below. Thanks!

335i N55 EWG
93 Octane in fuel tank

BM3 Stage2 93
Versus
Stage2 MultiMap set within to 93

BM3 Stage2+ 93
Versus
Stage2+ MultiMap set within to 93

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by johnung

Has anyone ever dyno’d a static BM3 map versus that same octane map within MultiMap to see if performance is identical?

I’m planning some dyno testing. If someone has already proven that they are identical, then I won’t waste my time/money repeating those dyno runs. Details below. Thanks!

335i N55 EWG
93 Octane in fuel tank

BM3 Stage2 93
Versus
Stage2 MultiMap set within to 93

BM3 Stage2+ 93
Versus
Stage2+ MultiMap set within to 93

Literally never been done. What are your mods?

[johnung]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Literally never been done. What are your mods?

My mods that may matter for Stage2 93 testing are:
Fabspeed HJS Catted Downpipe
BMW M Performance Exhaust
MST Intake
MST Turbo Inlet Pipe
TurboSmart BOV, Plumb Back model
MAD Race Intercooler

For Stage2+ 93 testing:
Dorch Stage2 HPFP

For Stage2/2+ FlexFuel MultiMap w E85
Walbro/TIA Model 535 LPFP
3.5bar MAP Sensors
Possibly M5 S63 Fuel Injectors

[n55david]

I remember seeing someone do it before and it was fairly close and within percentage of error etc.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by n55david

I remember seeing someone do it before and it was fairly close and within percentage of error etc.

Really!? That would be great news to me. If you happen to remember more details please let me know. I have enough questions that I’m trying to answer with these experiments. It would nice to not have to do this one too

[n55david]

Originally Posted by johnung

Really!? That would be great news to me. If you happen to remember more details please let me know. I have enough questions that I’m trying to answer with these experiments. It would nice to not have to do this one too

It was in one of the Facebook groups and I believe it was a 335 or 235. I dont remember beyond that.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by n55david

It was in one of the Facebook groups and I believe it was a 335 or 235. I dont remember beyond that.

Well worst case scenario, I’ll test the most powerful combo first- the Stage2+ 93 vs St2+ MM-93 and hope that they are close then I won’t have to do more.

[n55david]

Originally Posted by johnung

Well worst case scenario, I’ll test the most powerful combo first- the Stage2+ 93 vs St2+ MM-93 and hope that they are close then I won’t have to do more.

Not a bad idea.. just remember map changes need a full pulls to adapt etc

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by n55david

I remember seeing someone do it before and it was fairly close and within percentage of error etc.

if it's on FB, it never happened. I hate those groups, because unless you have FB AND are a part of the group, you'll never see it.

[n55david]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

if it's on FB, it never happened. I hate those groups, because unless you have FB AND are a part of the group, you'll never see it.

Oh I know.. I just can't remember where I seen it.
Did you post this question in the bm3 group too?

[johnung]

Originally Posted by n55david

Oh I know.. I just can't remember where I seen it.
Did you post this question in the bm3 group too?

Yes i did post in Bootmod3 Facebook group

[johnung]

Originally Posted by n55david

Not a bad idea.. just remember map changes need a full pulls to adapt etc

Can you please elaborate? I intend to do full WOT pulls while on the dyno. Are you saying that if I do a pull on the dyno. Then flash a different map. That then I have to do another full pull to get it to adapt before I can do another pull that will count?

[n55david]

Originally Posted by johnung

Can you please elaborate? I intend to do full WOT pulls while on the dyno. Are you saying that if I do a pull on the dyno. Then flash a different map. That then I have to do another full pull to get it to adapt before I can do another pull that will count?

You have to remember that the air fuel target may change and the adaptions are reset so it usually takes a run or two before it figures things out etc

[mike@x-ph.com]

Looking forward to the results, I don't expect a big difference between the two under normal circumstances.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by n55david

You have to remember that the air fuel target may change and the adaptions are reset so it usually takes a run or two before it figures things out etc

Does BM3 reset adaptations on a map change? I'm pretty sure MHD doesnt and their instructions specifically say its not needed to do so manually

[n55david]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Does BM3 reset adaptations on a map change? I'm pretty sure MHD doesnt and their instructions specifically say its not needed to do so manually

It's unclear but I do know that when I was going through the tuning process with my n55, I needed a few runs between flashes for the tune to properly setting with fueling changes..

[johnung]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Does BM3 reset adaptations on a map change? I'm pretty sure MHD doesnt and their instructions specifically say its not needed to do so manually

I don’t know either about adaptations, but it’s an excellent question to ask. I’ve got messages into a few guys who should know for sure. I’ve attended a couple of dyno sessions where bootmod3 was definitely flashed in the middle of dyno runs. I don’t recall anything special being done, but I’ll find out. Also the dyno itself isn’t at a small shop. It’s at a major facility with a lot of experience so I’ll see what they say as well.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

Looking forward to the results, I don't expect a big difference between the two under normal circumstances.

Yes, I agree. This static map vs MultiMap is really a side issue anyway. The study is really about stock N55 EWG turbo vs Pure500 with different fuels and tunes. I’m not doing to typical dyno for the highest horsepower number. I’m trying to demonstrate where the stock N55 EWG maxes out reliably, and then what the Pure500 adds to that. Several companies like the concept and have been offering help. I’m getting the fueling nailed down so the car doesn’t hit a fueling wall before the Pure500 capacity. Fun stuff!

[thejeremyman9]

If it does reset adaptations you will probably want to "drive" for a minute or two on the dyno doing through the gears at part throttle then maybe do one WOT pull before you do the 'real' WOT pull. You can log both but if the first one is an outlier consider it an adaptation period. Of course if time allows and its feasible you would want more than one pull for each test anyways to confirm repeatability

[johnung]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

If it does reset adaptations you will probably want to "drive" for a minute or two on the dyno doing through the gears at part throttle then maybe do one WOT pull before you do the 'real' WOT pull. You can log both but if the first one is an outlier consider it an adaptation period. Of course if time allows and its feasible you would want more than one pull for each test anyways to confirm repeatability

Thanks. Yes I’m hoping to schedule at least two pulls for each test. Luckily I just received confirmation from a Bootmod3 tuner who works with dynos that “tunes don’t need to adapt. You can flash and compare back to back.”

[AmuroRay]

You’ll just want to rent the dyno for “time” instead of pulls - it’s a better deal typically and you can get more runs in.

I’ve always known BMWs needing time to “adapt” to a new MAP, usually over the course of 1-2 WOT runs. But maybe it’s not a thing anymore.

I’m interested in results - mostly how the HPFP effects a the EWG on pump.

How is the IC holding up? Have you compared its logs (wgdc, IAT, etc) to your Evo 1?

[johnung]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

You’ll just want to rent the dyno for “time” instead of pulls - it’s a better deal typically and you can get more runs in.

I’ve always known BMWs needing time to “adapt” to a new MAP, usually over the course of 1-2 WOT runs. But maybe it’s not a thing anymore.

I’m interested in results - mostly how the HPFP effects a the EWG on pump.

How is the IC holding up? Have you compared its logs (wgdc, IAT, etc) to your Evo 1?

Yes, I’m designing a test plan now. Figuring out what questions I want to answer, so what comparisons I need to do. This has evolved into more of a study. There will be at least four different dyno days. First 93 Octane will be in the tank. The second will have E85. Then the stock N55 EWG turbo will be replaced by the Pure500, followed by its own 93 Octane and E85 dyno days.

I daily now with a FlexFuel Bootmod3 Stage2+ MultiMap tune with 93 to E85 in the tank depending on fuel availability and time of year since I live in a moderately cold climate near Philadelphia. So for the past year I have only been thinking in terms of dyno testing the stock turbo vs the Pure500 on full E85 to see where they both max out.

But I got deeper into talking to about a dozen guys who have installed the Pure500, and talking to Pure about the types of customers buying the Pure500. Really two separate large distinct groups emerged based on fuel used. There are 93 Octane guys running Stage2, or Stage2+ if they have an upgraded HPFP. And there are FlexFuel guys running Stage2 or Stage2+ MultiMap, with E30 to E85, depending on their HPFP/LPFP upgrades. So there are a lot of questions being asked and I’m curious about many myself. So why not try to answer them with real data? It will be fun!

I really like the MAD Race Intercooler. Most ICs get under pressure at high RPMs and their IATs creep up. The MAD Race really pushes them down. I did some logs last summer on a 98°F day and I was really impressed. I recommend the MAD Race to everyone. (There is no cutting during installation as some people mistakenly say.)

I never really compared the MAD Race to my old Wagner EVO1 Competition. They are really designed for different configurations. I was really happy with the EVO1 when I was running BM3 Stage2 on 93 Octane, so probably 400hp or less. It was perfectly sized for that role. I did a lot of testing with it on sequential WOTs and it held up well before showing any signs of heat soak.

But once I moved to ethanol and upgraded fuel pumps and ran higher ethanol, the MAD Race was really necessary. It’s been great.