[TodmordenLad]

Originally Posted by TodmordenLad

If that's a risk, I'll delete my earlier post now

Done

[Blacktemplar]

Originally Posted by TodmordenLad

If that's a risk, I'll delete my earlier post now

Same here. God forbid we should express an opinion on the internet...

Wait, am I allowed to say "God"? (for the avoidance of doubt, this is humour and not religious opinion or discussion)




Done

[Hooded]

Some new data recently out for anyone interested, as a I know some of you on here are supplementing Vitamin D in the hope it offers some protection against COVID-19 for just a small cost per year.

https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/advanc...qaa381/6123965

Habitual use of vitamin D supplements was significantly associated with a 34% lower risk of COVID-19 infection.

[MashinBenzin]

From the beeb:

Mr Zahawi had previously said that the government was "looking at the technology" to create vaccine passports, leading to accusations from critics that civil liberties would be infringed.


Absolutely right those civil rights types, how dare my liberty to spread a life- and economy- threatening virus be limited.

For F sake.

[CajunBMW]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

From the beeb:

Mr Zahawi had previously said that the government was "looking at the technology" to create vaccine passports, leading to accusations from critics that civil liberties would be infringed.


Absolutely right those civil rights types, how dare my liberty to spread a life- and economy- threatening virus be limited.

For F sake.

In thinking about this if various governments make it a requirement for entry as official policy then it becomes harder to argue against. For example if the UK, EU and US stated that you can't enter without proof of vaccination, then whether one wants to argue about liberties or not it is beyond your control since it is the country of entry that is requiring the proof. In essence no different then requiring a passport.

Now one can argue whether or not that is a good idea, but if enacted it becomes unimportant if you like it or not, as that would be the rule. It will be interesting to see how that is handled, as I am sure the countries represented by my above mentioned example along most other countries, would love to have tourists visit to drop some money in their country again. I mean if I got the urge to hop on a plane and travel to London, Berlin, etc., I would want to know it is safe for my family and the country of arrival, I would imagine, would want it safe for us and the citizens of that country.

[RobUK]

I have no problem with vaccination passports to help control the spread of this disease. However, one thing's for sure - there will be as many different solutions to this as there are countries and Britain will declare its own to be world-beating

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by RobUK

I have no problem with vaccination passports to help control the spread of this disease. However, one thing's for sure - there will be as many different solutions to this as there are countries and Britain will declare its own to be world-beating

And the EU will still be trying to work out what their combined agreed approach is in about 3 years time....

[gangzoom]

Originally Posted by CajunBMW

It remains to be seen the consequences, but it is not hard to imagine that immune pressure will select for more mutations that affect the ability of the vaccine or our immune system to recognize the virus. That sounds horrible, but this takes quite sometime to completely go dark from our immune system. So let's hope we get shots in arms and blunt spread and get this to a low level.
Cheers

We've missed the boat on this already haven't we?

The selective pressure on the new mutations to avoid the AZ vaccine must be massive in the UK, and given there is already a foot hold another new variant that can side step antibody recognition of the AZ jab, certainly I can see Lockdown 4.0 in the UK following very quickly on after the current lock down is over.

Am still a bit unsure about the immunity/protection offered by T cells, clearly it will 100% help to over come infection if you have primed T cells ready to go cytotoxic but half the disease severity of this disease appears to be cytokine driven. The length of stays people have on ITU also suggests even with native antibody + T cell response the body doesn't/cannot clear this virus that quickly.

You want a decent initial immune response to this virus, but equally once you develop lung disease bad enough to need hospital care what you need is drugs that shut down T cell activity. The Lancet/NEJM are resorting to publishing and referencing 'unpublished' literature on COVID, that's how desperate it seems we are now interms of understanding whats going to happen next.

Give me the choice and I'll happily have all 3 of the current approved vaccines in the UK.

Am not booking any holidays any time soon, its hard to see life before Jan 2020 coming back to any of us for a while yet .

[Blacktemplar]

Originally Posted by RobUK

I have no problem with vaccination passports to help control the spread of this disease. However, one thing's for sure - there will be as many different solutions to this as there are countries and Britain will declare its own to be world-beating

So long as whatever technology is used is tamper or forgery proof why would anyone object? You need a passport or National ID card to travel anyway, so in many respects it'll just be another layer on top of the existing security requirements for international travel.

Of course those who are deniers will say this is just a ploy to get you to take the Bill Gates microchip, which is fine as well, since the morons will then just have to stay in their country of origin...

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by TodmordenLad

If that's a risk, I'll delete my earlier post now

Still gutted the first one went.

Not for any scientific insight

Not for any meaningful discussion.

Jus the OPs opening statement, dammit!!

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

ITV been filming up at Chesterfield Hospital. The clinical psychologist referred to at the end is my wife. An interesting and a bit of an emotional view if you watch it all. Really feel for the nurses that have been moved from duties nothing like this, who now have to witness death every day.

The numbers on ICU are 3 times higher than normal, but at the end they also refer to the other wards also full of Covid patients.

I also agree with the doctor saying that anyone Covid denying, or saying the NHS isn’t busy, should have to do a shift helping turn patients!

[isleaiw1]

A tough watch, partly as I remember the last time I was there, and partly as I have heard first hand from an ITU sister there how tough it is for them as they are not used to so many patients not making it.

Deeply humbled by all that they are their colleagues are doing through this.

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

ITV been filming up at Chesterfield Hospital. The clinical psychologist referred to at the end is my wife. An interesting and a bit of an emotional view if you watch it all. Really feel for the nurses that have been moved from duties nothing like this, who now have to witness death every day.

The numbers on ICU are 3 times higher than normal, but at the end they also refer to the other wards also full of Covid patients.

I also agree with the doctor saying that anyone Covid denying, or saying the NHS isn’t busy, should have to do a shift helping turn patients!

One of the thoughts I've had is once this pandemic's over - or at least under control - we must have a lot of NHS frontline staff who could do with at least a month off work to recharge their batteries. I suspect there's a lot of them running on adrenalin at the moment and there's danger they're going to hit a wall at some point; problem is, with the level of resources in the NHS I'm not sure how many will get the time off they need (and deserve)?

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by JNW1

One of the thoughts I've had is once this pandemic's over - or at least under control - we must have a lot of NHS frontline staff who could do with at least a month off work to recharge their batteries. I suspect there's a lot of them running on adrenalin at the moment and there's danger they're going to hit a wall at some point; problem is, with the level of resources in the NHS I'm not sure how many will get the time off they need (and deserve)?

It’s tough for them definitely. My wife has been doing online well being sessions with them over a couple of hospitals.

They start the meeting sure that they don’t need it, and then part pay through the outpourings start and don’t stop. I think I mentioned before, one doctor was quiet most of the way through one session, and as a psychologist my wife is used to them knowing better and not warming to this kind of stuff, so didn’t think much of it.

But, that wasn’t the case this time. Right at the end he said he’d been quiet all the way through because a colleague of his had died of Covid that morning and he just didn’t want to talk yet.

[TodmordenLad]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

ITV been filming up at Chesterfield Hospital. The clinical psychologist referred to at the end is my wife. An interesting and a bit of an emotional view if you watch it all. Really feel for the nurses that have been moved from duties nothing like this, who now have to witness death every day.

The numbers on ICU are 3 times higher than normal, but at the end they also refer to the other wards also full of Covid patients.

I also agree with the doctor saying that anyone Covid denying, or saying the NHS isn't busy, should have to do a shift helping turn patients!

Covid deniers and their ilk should be denied all NHS treatment and support, period. If it doesn't exist, then they've nothing to fear if they become seriously ill from it and need hospital treatment. Simples.

[KRS_SN]

Originally Posted by JNW1

One of the thoughts I've had is once this pandemic's over - or at least under control - we must have a lot of NHS frontline staff who could do with at least a month off work to recharge their batteries. I suspect there's a lot of them running on adrenalin at the moment and there's danger they're going to hit a wall at some point; problem is, with the level of resources in the NHS I'm not sure how many will get the time off they need (and deserve)?

having worked in the hospitals for 6 years before becoming a GP 10 years ago(I couldn't take interference from hospital managers anymore hence the jump) I know this. NHS runs runs on goodwill of medical staff.
I have had all of 6 sick days in 16 years of working.
If I am not there patients will suffer and colleagues will suffer mentality. Soldier on.
Starting work earlier than paid time finishing much later than expected is the normal to keep the service running.
No appreciation expected but there is much satisfaction in it.

[Hooded]

Originally Posted by TodmordenLad

Covid deniers and their ilk should be denied all NHS treatment and support, period. If it doesn't exist, then they've nothing to fear if they become seriously ill from it and need hospital treatment. Simples.

If they pay tax and national insurance they are entitled to the same NHS treatment as you regardless of their silly views about covid.

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by Hooded

If they pay tax and national insurance they are entitled to the same NHS treatment as you regardless of their silly views about covid.

No shit.

[Ennoch]

Originally Posted by Hooded

If they pay tax and national insurance they are entitled to the same NHS treatment as you regardless of their silly views about covid.

Indeed, although it is a shame that they are. Unfortunately it's a rather slippery slope once you go down that route

[Hooded]

Originally Posted by Ennoch

Indeed, although it is a shame that they are. Unfortunately it's a rather slippery slope once you go down that route

Yep, smokers denied lung cancer treatment? One could argue its self inflicted.

[Hooded]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

[Nibbles]

Originally Posted by TodmordenLad

Covid deniers and their ilk should be denied all NHS treatment and support, period. If it doesn't exist, then they've nothing to fear if they become seriously ill from it and need hospital treatment. Simples.

Couldn't we just put them in a separate ward with some paracetamol and a couple of packs of lemsip with a big sign saying it's only a bit of flu?