[JustChris]

Getting spicy.

I see Max finished 'above' Lewis today

[MrManor]

The slow motion of the incident was a real eye opener as to how the rollover hoop and halo actually work!

I’m made up for McLaren though it’s what was needed and adds an extra dimension to an already pretty competitive season.

I was a bit disappointed in Bottas once he got to 4th he just seemed to hit a wall, it looked at one point he was going to add some extra spice!

[DaveA]

Originally Posted by MrManor

The slow motion of the incident was a real eye opener as to how the rollover hoop and halo actually work!

Indeed...

Kind of a freak accident in a way as without the bump from the sausage kerb they might have both made it through with a little side to side contact... as it was the bump seemed to just pop Max's rear wheel into the rear wheel of the Mercedes and because it lifted the car up and over it became something else entirely...

I have some sympathy with Lewis' argument about him taking the avoiding moves earlier in the race and Max not doing likewise then... and whilst Max might also have a point about Lewis not making room, I do think, sometimes, when I hear Max, he sounds like he is really expecting (at least in public comment) people to make more room and I wonder sometimes if that affects his decision making...

If he had thought, instead, that Lewis was going to make no room, then how differently would he have played it..? (a rhetorical question)

But to be fair I think this was more unfortunate than anything and I hope everybody can kind of come to see that and move on...

Ocon's move on Vettel was much more of an obvious room/no room type of incident...

I have heard some of the other opinions and, frankly, they are just people trying to sound controversial to my ears...

Originally Posted by MrManor

I’m made up for McLaren though it’s what was needed and adds an extra dimension to an already pretty competitive season.

Getting Andreas Seidl on board was, I believe, a significant move and you have to say they have been the coming team of the last few years... Pleased for everybody... all folks in the team... as they give 100% come rain, come shine...

Same in every team...

Originally Posted by MrManor

I was a bit disappointed in Bottas once he got to 4th he just seemed to hit a wall, it looked at one point he was going to add some extra spice!

I don't know, I suspect the tyre advantage he had at the restart want away from him over the laps (he burned them pretty hard at the restart and subsequent laps) and passing a Red Bull Honda would have been a far tougher task than many of the cars he had passed up until that point, where he seemed to have an advantage...

Also, you have to wonder if, once Perez had the penalty, they settled for sitting behind him and not taking the risks as it is doubtful he could pass the McLarens (Lewis struggled, albeit he did it when he needed to just at the pit stops)... ...

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by DaveA

I do think, sometimes, when I hear Max, he sounds like he is really expecting (at least in public comment) people to make more room and I wonder sometimes if that affects his decision making...

Verstappen is definitely a very talented driver but the way he expects other people to make room for him to avoid an accident - whilst seemingly never feeling the need to do the same in return - reminds me of the way Ayrton Senna used to behave. In effect he used to force other drivers to make the decision as to whether or not there was going to be an accident and Verstappen seems to be cut from a similar cloth....

[Tengocity]

Agree fully about McLaren, great to see them up front again, and so nice to see Ricciardo doing well again. Whilst it's great that a George Russell is going to be in a Merc next year, Norris looks like he's got the lot to be winning championships too. The future is bright for F1 with these young drivers around.

[pmgreenwood]

Originally Posted by JNW1

Verstappen is definitely a very talented driver but the way he expects other people to make room for him to avoid an accident - whilst seemingly never feeling the need to do the same in return - reminds me of the way Ayrton Senna used to behave. In effect he used to force other drivers to make the decision as to whether or not there was going to be an accident and Verstappen seems to be cut from a similar cloth....

The good news is he as, at last, got a penalty for it

[MashinBenzin]

Max has spent his whole career having prangs or having people wave "after you" as they know the alternative. Hamilton's career has never been like that and certainly wasn't 5 or 6 years in. Max does seem to believe that the other driver should always yield for his actions. Now to watch today's incident on YouTube as I haven't seen it yet

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

Max has spent his whole career having prangs or having people wave "after you" as they know the alternative. Hamilton's career has never been like that and certainly wasn't 5 or 6 years in. Max does seem to believe that the other driver should always yield for his actions. Now to watch today's incident on YouTube as I haven't seen it yet

Watched it now. Having seen so many incidents over the decades at that corner, Max was the one who should have yielded.

However, the circuit design (kerbs) is the big problem causing the dangerous outcome. A few years ago that would have been horrendous.

Max is a danger though, his wheel to wheel attitude is not good enough.

[JustChris]

Social Media is relentless

[DaveA]

Originally Posted by JNW1

Verstappen is definitely a very talented driver but the way he expects other people to make room for him to avoid an accident - whilst seemingly never feeling the need to do the same in return - reminds me of the way Ayrton Senna used to behave. In effect he used to force other drivers to make the decision as to whether or not there was going to be an accident and Verstappen seems to be cut from a similar cloth....

I am sure there are many of Ayrton's contemporaries who would agree with you...

I think it is Max's version of mind games... and by saying what he does, after an incident, he is clearly signalling to other folk how he expects them to behave if they want to avoid a collision in future (today's was something like - this is what happens when you don't leave room)... putting to onus on them to back out...

Well, so, Max was never ahead of Lewis and could have backed out, so there are two sides to that argument for sure, and I notice that Christian Horner did not particularly defend Max strongly own the Sky interview... He went for 50/50 with the caveat that he would obviously defend his driver

If that is the case, that is at least twice now he has tried that with Lewis and both times Lewis stood firm... and not only stood firm during the incident, but annoyingly so afterwards (for Max) by not rising to Max's baiting and, indeed, having quite a bit of support in his views...

This mental toughness is something I think Lewis has on a level many levels above others in F1... and Max will have to think hard the next time he tries it with Lewis, especially later on in the season if the point positions change again, and Lewis leads...

There is absolutely zero chance that Lewis will acquiesce to Max like that...

[DaveA]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

Agree fully about McLaren, great to see them up front again, and so nice to see Ricciardo doing well again. Whilst it's great that a George Russell is going to be in a Merc next year, Norris looks like he's got the lot to be winning championships too. The future is bright for F1 with these young drivers around.

I think the point you make here has a lot to do with Max's approach this year... Like this is the golden opportunity to win a championship that there might not be in future years with a) a bunch of new talents vying for the wins and b) the semi-lottery of the new regs coming and nobody knowing who will be on top...

In many ways, Max has been the challenger for a number of years now... No guarantee he would be the challenger next year... So this year is the chance..

An interesting season, no doubt...

[DaveA]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

Watched it now. Having seen so many incidents over the decades at that corner, Max was the one who should have yielded.

However, the circuit design (kerbs) is the big problem causing the dangerous outcome. A few years ago that would have been horrendous.

Max is a danger though, his wheel to wheel attitude is not good enough.

I agree, the circuit design (kerbs) exacerbated the effects of an incident that was avoidable by the driver who was behind (Max)....

I think the application of the penalty on Max is sending the same signal that we are in these comments, i.e.that his "messaging" along the lines of this is what happens if you don't make room, is simply not accepted... this is, in fact, what happens when you try and occupy the space already occupied by another car, and that is unacceptable... penalty applied...

[pmgreenwood]

What we don't know is what line Horner and the rest of Red Bull senior management are saying privately to Max. Is it continue as you have done or are they suggesting a change in his approach. we might get some hint in Horner's media comments in Russia.

[Lynxi2k]

Nothing much to add that doesn't already echo what has been said. Max is very talented and certainly has the ability to win championships, but this season is showing some mental frailness that throughs doubt into whether it is certain which I had always believed.

Seems like the pressure of being favourite and the lack of championship winning experience is showing. Winning a championship isn't about winning every race, you have to manage the big picture, something Hamilton is expert at IMO. So many times he has shown he can think of more outside what is happened right now, in moments or races as a whole. If Max had managed situations better he wouldn't have 2 DNFs and would be further ahead in the championship.

Interesting to see what happens from here.

As for the future, can't wait for the young drivers and the new regs that will hopefully give us genuinely close racing and multiple chances for wins from multiple winners.

Great to see mclaren back at the top!!

[Tengocity]

The actual wording from the stewards is interesting. I'm paraphrasing, but it basically says that Hamilton was ahead and his track position was "reasonable". In other words, he shouldn't have needed to get out of the way, or not take the racing line, just because Max thought he should.

[Lynxi2k]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

The actual wording from the stewards is interesting. I'm paraphrasing, but it basically says that Hamilton was ahead and his track position was "reasonable". In other words, he shouldn't have needed to get out of the way, or. It take the racing line, just because Max thought he should.

Funny that MB haven't insinuated that max is a danger to life or should be banned for the rest of the season…

Maybe the pressure is Max from RB too, looking a bit desperate from a team who have all the tools to win the championship but look increasingly like they won't

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by Lynxi2k

Funny that MB haven't insinuated that max is a danger to life or should be banned for the rest of the season…

Maybe the pressure is Max from RB too, looking a bit desperate from a team who have all the tools to win the championship but look increasingly like they won't

Agree.

Horner a few weeks ago after the 'coming together' reminded me a little a Rafa Benitez 'Fhacfs' rant.

[Lynxi2k]

Originally Posted by JustChris

Agree.

Horner a few weeks ago after the 'coming together' reminded me a little a Rafa Benitez 'Fhacfs' rant.

Cue the Kevin Keegan meltdown and we complete the full set!

[Wills2]

I always look to Horner for guide as to the truth in these situations, as soon as he said it was a 50/50 racing incident I knew it was 100% Max's fault.

[simon.]

Originally Posted by Wills2

I always look to Horner for guide as to the truth in these situations, as soon as he said it was a 50/50 racing incident I knew it was 100% Max's fault.

Same. If he was even 10% positive it wasn't Max's fault, he would have been crying blue murder.

I've grown to like Max but recently he's gone back to 'dick' like moves. Hamilton is too long in the tooth to be bullied.

[agentorange]

Originally Posted by JNW1

Verstappen is definitely a very talented driver but the way he expects other people to make room for him to avoid an accident - whilst seemingly never feeling the need to do the same in return - reminds me of the way Ayrton Senna used to behave. In effect he used to force other drivers to make the decision as to whether or not there was going to be an accident and Verstappen seems to be cut from a similar cloth....

Michael Schumacher also subscribed to the "GTF outta my way" and "they shall not pass" school of driving when things got tight.

One thing is for sure, the slow-mo got rid of any remaining doubts I had about the necessity of the halo on today's cars.

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by agentorange

Michael Schumacher also subscribed to the "GTF outta my way" and "they shall not pass" school of driving when things got tight.

Indeed he did and but perhaps that was due in no small part to the fact he'd watched Senna's antics go without significant punishment for years?