[nightcrawlerb]

Recently, I got a 2012 320D. (F30 184HP) sDrive / Automatic Transmission

When my speed hits 50MPH, the car is getting shaky and my steering wheel starts shaking (not much but you can see sometimes especially in the morning but always feel when you are holding it).

Also, I get a feeling like pulsating on the steering wheel.

No shake on the car body.
No shake on the floor.

Shaking is higher in the morning for a few miles.
Also some roads the shake is disappearing.

Starts on 50MPH and disappears 55MPH +

Here what is checked to now,

- All wheels road force balanced couple times, all is fine.
- Wheels are not bent
- Control Arm Bushings
- All front parts are in tolerance values.
- No flat spots on tires
- Engine mounts are new
- I changed tires (Pirelli RFT to Hankook)
- I disconnected steering wheel servo

No change in braking or accelerating. (also new brake disc etc.)
I go neutral when shaking starts and nothing changes.

Also, some other heavy maintenance works are done recently.
- Timing Chain,
- Injectors (Cleaned and Calibrated), also some parts of the engine are replaced
- Driveshaft guibos
- Front shock absorbers (They were dead )
- Transmission mounts
- Wheels Rebalanced and aligned

BUT,

In the morning first 20-30 miles steering wheel is shaking and front of the car is still shimmy.

While the comfort and acceleration of the car are increased very well, the problem still persists.

All parts that we changed could cause this problem but none of them is the right solution.

It is really interesting that there is no change after this effort. I mean the car is still doing the same thing in the same way.

we have also checked if a brake is stuck in the mornings, but no luck.

That is a complicated thing I mean, we check every possible part we know, so at this point, need really help to go further.

I don't know what can I check more right now.

Thank you very much for your comments.

[nightcrawlerb]

Two days before I have checked both discs after 2-3 minutes of driving, I found the right one %100 hotter than left.

Although we have already checked brakes on the lift there was no problem with braking, this was an obvious clue.

so, We rebuilt caliper and check all brake components carefully and replaced brake hoses today.

BUT NO LUCK, after 2-3 hours of sitting, my steering wheel shaking like crazy for 15-20min of first driving then shaking is going away, almost to zero,

I am totally lost again

[Eschmacher]

Wheel bearing?

[nightcrawlerb]

Originally Posted by Eschmacher

Wheel bearing?

Already changed. Because fronts are doing humming sound and vibration on the floor.

[nightcrawlerb]

UPDATE:

This morning, before I hit the road, I got my tires pressured up to 45psi, waited a while, then drop 35psi, to eliminate If there is any flat-spotting.

So, no shimmy and shake on the same road every morning I passed.

So my conclusion is that my Hankook 225/55/18 tires, creating flat spots for 4-5 hours of sitting. Day or night if the car sits 4-5 hours, getting out of round

But how can this be possible? Outside temp here is 15C in the night, 25C in day.

[IraHayes]

Originally Posted by nightcrawlerb

UPDATE:

This morning, before I hit the road, I got my tires pressured up to 45psi, waited a while, then drop 35psi, to eliminate If there is any flat-spotting.

So, no shimmy and shake on the same road every morning I passed.

So my conclusion is that my Hankook 225/55/18 tires, creating flat spots for 4-5 hours of sitting. Day or night if the car sits 4-5 hours, getting out of round

But how can this be possible? Outside temp here is 15C in the night, 25C in day.

Some tires just suck. I get a little bit of a vibration through my steering wheel on occasion, but I suspect it's the run flat tires as my friend had similar issues on his F30 and they promptly disappeared when he changed his tires and went with conventional tires. The more I read, the more I'm finding this issue to be endemic in RF tires.

[nightcrawlerb]

Originally Posted by IraHayes

Some tires just suck. I get a little bit of a vibration through my steering wheel on occasion, but I suspect it's the run flat tires as my friend had similar issues on his F30 and they promptly disappeared when he changed his tires and went with conventional tires. The more I read, the more I'm finding this issue to be endemic in RF tires.

Actually I came here from Pirelli SottoZero3 which is run-flat and shaking all the time around 80KM-100KM no matter how we try to balance (+Roadforce), So, I decided to go none RF and get these Hankook.

So my tires are none RF now. (Hankooks)

None RF tires have sides that are much softer than run-flats. I was wondering about these flat-spotting due to soft sides.

Although I pointed out that my problems disappear with my pressurize - depressurize process, I am really confused about which tire that I can choose for zero problems.

[IraHayes]

Originally Posted by nightcrawlerb

Actually I came here from Pirelli SottoZero3 which is run-flat and shaking all the time around 80KM-100KM no matter how we try to balance (+Roadforce), So, I decided to go none RF and get these Hankook.

So my tires are none RF now. (Hankooks)

None RF tires have sides that are much softer than run-flats. I was wondering about these flat-spotting due to soft sides.

Although I pointed out that my problems disappear with my pressurize - depressurize process, I am really confused about which tire that I can choose for zero problems.

When the time comes, I am probably going to go with Michelin. We recently installed Michelin Primacy tires on the wife's Benz and they are great. Michelin, and Pirelli as well, were for decades the OEM tires installed from the factory for both Benz and Bimmers, so I feel confident I won't have issues going with one of those two brands. That said, Pirelli, based on my past experiences, tend to be made from a softer rubber compound and wear out faster; great for gripping the curves, not so great if you want your tires to last a while.

[kpgray]

Seems, I recall some very early 2012 F30 RWD's had a few steering shakes reported but have not heard of the problem since 2013. I had bought an early 2013 model xDrive and did not have any issues. Go back to some very early threads and you may find something...

[nightcrawlerb]

Originally Posted by kpgray

Seems, I recall some very early 2012 F30 RWD's had a few steering shakes reported but have not heard of the problem since 2013. I had bought an early 2013 model xDrive and did not have any issues. Go back to some very early threads and you may find something...

I am really digging it hard and read much, most likely people have balance issues (that can be fixed by road-force balance) and most of them having the shake constantly.

Because my problem disappears after a couple of miles, probably my tires cause this what I am focusing on now.

I ordered a new tire set, (Michelin). I will see if anything will change.

Also, I thought the front design of these cars really ultra-sensitive for any wheel/tire intolerance.

[dmaxdmax]

If you're still driving into and out of your shimmy, my experience is that almost always is the wheels/tires.

I know your wheels were balanced and I read your new tires are also showing some signs of something (flat spotting, maybe?).

When your wheels were balanced, did you happen to watch either time? The wheel can show its flat spots and warps much better when it's spun very slowly. You could do that yourself on each wheel with a friend.

Sometimes, also, the way they balance isn't the best. Weights on both the rims (if needed) is usually best, though I know it looks ugly...it balances better.

Anyway, I hope you didn't do all that work and find out I was right and it was one of the first things you did.

Also, tires can throw belts internally which you might not see, but might feel.

Good luck.

[nightcrawlerb]

Originally Posted by dmaxdmax

If you're still driving into and out of your shimmy, my experience is that almost always is the wheels/tires.

I know your wheels were balanced and I read your new tires are also showing some signs of something (flat spotting, maybe?).

When your wheels were balanced, did you happen to watch either time? The wheel can show its flat spots and warps much better when it's spun very slowly. You could do that yourself on each wheel with a friend.

Sometimes, also, the way they balance isn't the best. Weights on both the rims (if needed) is usually best, though I know it looks ugly...it balances better.

Anyway, I hope you didn't do all that work and find out I was right and it was one of the first things you did.

Also, tires can throw belts internally which you might not see, but might feel.

Good luck.

Thank you for your time,

I almost try all possible way to balance and check these rims and every time getting the same result,

For example, first, we put them on hunter road force machine without tires and check both by eye and by the machine.

Then, we put tires back on them and balance with road simulation.

Road force pressure around 2-4lbs (very acceptable I think)
and each wheel is needed 10-15grams balance weight maximum.

While putting them to the car, we carefully center and torque them.

I am not mechanic or expert but learned too much while chasing this problem by watching the processes .

I eliminate so many things, nothing changes the shakes on the steering in the morning. Except, pressurize and de-pressurize tires before hit road makes the problem disappear.

I still can't believe that a tire gets flat spots for sitting 3-4 hours. But it seems they have defects or something.

Also, tires can throw belts internally which you might not see, but might feel.

Also, this can be true I feel a constant heartbeat on the steering wheel while shaking is around, so my new tire sets will solve all the problems I hope.

I will update here when I put the Michelin tire set.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by nightcrawlerb

BUT NO LUCK, after 2-3 hours of sitting, my steering wheel shaking like crazy for 15-20min of first driving then shaking is going away, almost to zero,

I am totally lost again

When I read the above part this morning (UK), I intended to reply, but have been busy all day.

Was going to suggest 'flat spotting', as that is a typical symptom. My question was going to be, what do you park on?

Why I say that, I park on granite chippings on my drive. All cars I've had over the past 20+ years, have had some degree of flat spotting, due to the way the chippings distort the tires. All shows in the 50 - 60mph range.

Temperature swings/changes, ambient and the tires, make a difference. It can take a few miles to smooth out the issue. Some days hardly noticed at all, other days I'm waiting for the tires to warm and become round again.

Some tires have been worse than others. My current Continental summer tires are quite bad, if hot before stopping. Next day can take about 5 miles before smoothing out, then absolutely fine.

BTW, have had the issue on new cars, so not a wear issue.

If the balance is slightly out, flat spotting just amplifies any shimmy potential.

[kpgray]

Originally Posted by nightcrawlerb

I am really digging it hard and read much, most likely people have balance issues (that can be fixed by road-force balance) and most of them having the shake constantly.

Because my problem disappears after a couple of miles, probably my tires cause this what I am focusing on now.

I ordered a new tire set, (Michelin). I will see if anything will change.

Also, I thought the front design of these cars really ultra-sensitive for any wheel/tire intolerance.

I found this on the forum that might lead you in the right direction LINK:

Looks like steering rack and wheel hub changes starting 11/2012 production

Good luck, the F30 is really a good vehicle, I hope this issue does not plague your car.

[nightcrawlerb]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

When I read the above part this morning (UK), I intended to reply, but have been busy all day.

Was going to suggest 'flat spotting', as that is a typical symptom. My question was going to be, what do you park on?

Why I say that, I park on granite chippings on my drive. All cars I've had over the past 20+ years, have had some degree of flat spotting, due to the way the chippings distort the tires. All shows in the 50 - 60mph range.

Temperature swings/changes, ambient and the tires, make a difference. It can take a few miles to smooth out the issue. Some days hardly noticed at all, other days I'm waiting for the tires to warm and become round again.

Some tires have been worse than others. My current Continental summer tires are quite bad, if hot before stopping. Next day can take about 5 miles before smoothing out, then absolutely fine.

BTW, have had the issue on new cars, so not a wear issue.

If the balance is slightly out, flat spotting just amplifies any shimmy potential.

Yes, everything indicates now it is my tires.

what do you park on?

An asphalt road. My parking area is a ramp. So I have to park the car downhill or uphill by one side.

I mean left tires or right tires holding much weight due to the slope.

However, I changed where I parked and found somewhere really flat, nothing really changed much.

If the balance is slightly out, flat-spotting just amplifies any shimmy potential.

I totally agree that because I did many balancing due to changing parts and after some balancing, I can feel the difference. If the balance is not perfect, it is more disturbing like the one tire completely flat.

[nightcrawlerb]

Originally Posted by kpgray

I found this on the forum that might lead you in the right direction LINK:

Looks like steering rack and wheel hub changes starting 11/2012 production

Good luck, the F30 is really a good vehicle, I hope this issue does not plague your car.

Really, thank you.

I had passed the rack because I tested the car by disconnecting the electric support of the rack. nothing was changed.

However, the steering rack is also on my list to investigate more, If new tires do not solve the problem.

[HighlandPete]

The other possible issue is wheel run-out. Have you, or anyone, checked the rim run-out when wheels are fitted to the car?

The slightest installed run-out, plus flat spotting can cause added shimmy issues.

E39 was very sensitive to any tolerance errors, shimmy hard to eliminate. The fact it almost disappears once tires are warm, is a big clue to where the problem originates.

[nightcrawlerb]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

The other possible issue is wheel run-out. Have you, or anyone, checked the rim run-out when wheels are fitted to the car?

The slightest installed run-out, plus flat spotting can cause added shimmy issues.

E39 was very sensitive to any tolerance errors, shimmy hard to eliminate. The fact it almost disappears once tires are warm, is a big clue to where the problem originates.

When the car is on the lift, I support the wheels from rods.

Then turning them carefully and check if side or bottom has run-outs.

But wheels turning perfectly fine.

Monday my new tire sets will arrive. So I will see if anything changes

[IraHayes]

Originally Posted by nightcrawlerb

When the car is on the lift, I support the wheels from rods.

Then turning them carefully and check if side or bottom has run-outs.

But wheels turning perfectly fine.

Monday my new tire sets will arrive. So I will see if anything changes

Please keep us updated. Would really like to know if this cures your problem.

[eluded]

Does it get worse above 50? Could be tires if it changed then.

[nightcrawlerb]

Originally Posted by IraHayes

Please keep us updated. Would really like to know if this cures your problem.

Here is the newest update.

My current wheels are 18", so for a little bit comfort and with a hope to solve the problem I decided to downsize.

So,

This morning I got my new Michelin tire set and also new rims (aren't brand new, but pretty good condition BMW OEM 17" wheels).

We put them to the car by balancing with Hunter GPS Road Force.

Balances are perfect, tires are perfect, rims are perfect.

We turned wheels both on the car and on the machine, everything was rotating perfectly.

And guess what > the shimmy and the shake are exactly where they are.

55MPH<>65MPH steering wheel is shaking, the front of the car feels shimmy.

I took my car to three different shops and all have checked everything carefully. All said that everything is PERFECT

This setup shakes more than my current Hankook combination. So I cannot feel the difference if it shakes more after 3-4 hours sitting.

Originally Posted by eluded

Does it get worse above 50? Could be tires if it changed then.

Super clean below 50MPH sharp and also smooth riding
after 60MPH sharp and also smooth riding


I feel very upset now, Anyway, I will dive into this and I really obsessed to solve this problem.

Maybe the servo or another component that we are missing while the investigation. I will check everything from the start and update here of course.

[dmaxdmax]

Did you ever spin your wheels slowly and look at them? Your eye will pick up things that you'll feel, when a balancing machine, spinning at speed, will just balance out. By numbers it'll work, but on the car, you'll feel it.

Look for a hop. One wheel alone could be the cause...usually inside rim where it's softer.

Doesn't cost anything to make sure. I've run into this sort of thing more than once. Really does sound like a wheel/tire...and since your tires are new, I'm going to guess one wheel is warped. I think you'll see a hop. Get a friend to spin it by hand while it's on the car...you look underneath at the rim in one spot and see if you see a hop.