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      03-14-2019, 08:48 PM   #1
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Cylinder misfires after downpipe change

Hey all:

I as posted, I just recently swapped out my OEM DP for a Wagner catted DP and have been pulling logs for an updated tune build.

I had a series of hard pulls and logs, several weeks ago, ZERO errors and felt strong. I installed a Wagner catted DP, and immediate pulls after I can feel and hear the misfires show in the logs. I swapped my plugs out for NGKs yesterday, gapped .020, and also changed coil order to see if 4 and 6 were having issues. No change in behavior. Also seems to only happen above 4-4.5k rpm.

See image

I have emails out to Wagner, but welcome any suggestions on any of this. I am very likely going to swap my OEM DP back in tomorrow and test, to see if there is any way I did anything wrong.

Just confused.
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      03-14-2019, 09:00 PM   #2
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that's weird....maybe the sensors were reversed or broken during install?

I drove my 235i on a catless tube for about month before getting my bm3 tune and never had misfires. It threw a light approx every 50-100km but I would just clear it using an obd code reader.
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      03-14-2019, 09:03 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amw896 View Post
that's weird....maybe the sensors were reversed or broken during install?

I drove my 235i on a catless tube for about month before getting my bm3 tune and never had misfires. It threw a light approx every 50-100km but I would just clear it using an obd code reader.
I got the cat error in about 20miles, so not surprising there, but the cyl4 and 6 errors are new since that swap.

Good question but swapped position for position when I changed the DP, and treated them like explosive glass. I have wondered about torque, maybe the V bands are leaking, or the 02 sensors are not in tight enough.. *Shrug* Dont know if that would cause this error though.

ZERO errors before, and now above 4k they happen every time. Car is cooling off so will swap out tomorrow back to OEM and test the crap out of it. Maybe I did something wrong.
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      03-14-2019, 09:08 PM   #4
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Holy crap.. I am reading 50nm for torque on the sensors.. I bet mine are nowhere near that tight.

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...erter/Alt9Yq97
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      03-14-2019, 09:09 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW DIY Guy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by amw896 View Post
that's weird....maybe the sensors were reversed or broken during install?

I drove my 235i on a catless tube for about month before getting my bm3 tune and never had misfires. It threw a light approx every 50-100km but I would just clear it using an obd code reader.
Good question but swapped position for position when I changed the DP, and treated them like explosive glass. I have wondered about torque, maybe the V bands are leaking, or the 02 sensors are not in tight enough.. *Shrug* Dont know if that would cause this error though.

ZERO errors before, and now above 4k they happen every time. Car is cooling off so will swap out tomorrow back to OEM and test the crap out of it. Maybe I did something wrong.
np! Yea, definitely check the sensors out and report back.
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      03-14-2019, 09:12 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW DIY Guy View Post
Holy crap.. I am reading 50nm for torque on the sensors.. I bet mine are nowhere near that tight.

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...erter/Alt9Yq97
50nm isnít that much
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      03-14-2019, 10:16 PM   #7
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Why, specifically - did you decide to change the gap from NGK factory settings?

Is there a benefit to having a tighter gap?
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      03-14-2019, 10:45 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by sspade View Post
Why, specifically - did you decide to change the gap from NGK factory settings?

Is there a benefit to having a tighter gap?
The recommendation is 0.020 for high boost cars, with a 1 or 2 step (these are 2) colder plugs.
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      03-14-2019, 10:45 PM   #9
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are you sure those codes are current? when I got my pre purchase inspection they pulled past error misfire codes that were no longer active, and in the app it says "shadow inactive", maybe the codes were from before?
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      03-14-2019, 11:01 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by DreamerJoe View Post
are you sure those codes are current? when I got my pre purchase inspection they pulled past error misfire codes that were no longer active, and in the app it says "shadow inactive", maybe the codes were from before?
pretty sure as bbn I get strange poof sounds and slight shivers above 4k.. I can feel and hear it. Didnt have that prior to the change. Will pull the DP out, check it all, especially the sensors and torque.
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      03-15-2019, 02:12 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW DIY Guy View Post
pretty sure as bbn I get strange poof sounds and slight shivers above 4k.. I can feel and hear it. Didnt have that prior to the change. Will pull the DP out, check it all, especially the sensors and torque.

Are you running a tune? If so, did you reflash after the install? My car didn't run right after my AR design catted downpipe. It felt like a misfire. My car would run real strong, then noticeably weak. I swapped out the plugs to NGK (my OEM plugs looked fine after they pulled them out), and took BM3 and Mike at Extreme Powers advice on the gap. I want to say .022, but don't quote me, Mike would know. He recommended the NGK plugs (you can ask him for exactly which one) at .022 gap for a FBO stage 2. He mentioned that .020 was a bit too much unless I was running a different setup with more boost. I took his advice, swapped out the plugs, reflashed the car, and it pulled Hard! No problems for a while, at least not until I upgraded my exhaust. It seems that the car needs time to learn the change that's occurred. I've also noticed that some of the maps (although they're constantly upgraded and tweaked) seem to run better on my car than others. I haven't flashed the latest BM3 tune because my car is running excellent right now! Minus the exhaust drone at low RPM in 8th gear... Also, interesting little fact. My downpipe didn't throw a constant CEL. It did so intermittently when I would flash back to stock. But I didn't have my CEL delete checked off when running the tune. So in theory, my CEL shouldn't of turned on, regardless if I was running a stock tune or my stage 2. After installing the Axleback, my car threw a CEL. I then checked off the CEL delete on my tune, and that got rid of the CEL.
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      03-15-2019, 02:49 AM   #12
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I'm running a Wagner catted DP in a 435i also. I flashed on BM3 Stage 2 93 OCT before I drove the car anywhere after the DP install. I have had no misfires, or issues, took a bunch of logs the first week and a month later.

I am running stock Bosch plugs, stock gap and they've done 30,000kms (car is at 85000kms).

Not sure if that helps, but with a similar set up I thought I'd chime in.
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      03-15-2019, 07:46 AM   #13
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FBO, running stock gap on NGK upgraded plugs. Smooth as butta.

Not sure why everyone fucks with the gap... seems like most who have issues, have adjusted gap.
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      03-15-2019, 08:19 AM   #14
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Great feedback and info.. I read .022 in several places and also saw .020 from BMS where I got the plugs.

I am running the AA tune and was pulling logs for analysis and an updated tune. I haven't flashed the existing stage 2 tune as of yet

Had a hard time sleeping pondering about this.. the question if the cyl4 and 6 errors are old.. maybe? I have the MHD app for just logging, and noticed something odd. If I pull DME errors, that "shadow" log entry always shows the current day/time stamp, pull at 2pm then 2.. pull again 5min later, shows later. That error could be old, but there is definitely little poof sounds and shivers that I never had at higher rpm before the install.

So thinking.. maybe errors are old/wrong but physical errors are unrelated to that. Going to pull the DP and reinstall after checking all torque on sensors and vbands.
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      03-15-2019, 08:54 AM   #15
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Did you change the DP AND plugs at once? How do you know one of the plugs isn't bad?
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      03-15-2019, 09:47 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by doodlebro View Post
Did you change the DP AND plugs at once? How do you know one of the plugs isn't bad?
no just the DP then log runs... pulled OEM Bosch and installed the NGK.
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      03-15-2019, 10:35 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW DIY Guy View Post
no just the DP then log runs... pulled OEM Bosch and installed the NGK.
Right on, I was confused.

Don't have the slightest idea why you'd have this problem. I installed a catless DP in my (N55) car back in December and I've never had misfires. Did blow my stock turbo a month after though

If the O2 sensors have been tightened to spec and it still happens, definitely swap the OE downpipe in and see what happens. Also, did you tighten the V-band down to 13Nm?
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      03-15-2019, 10:40 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doodlebro View Post
Right on, I was confused.

Don't have the slightest idea why you'd have this problem. I installed a catless DP in my (N55) car back in December and I've never had misfires. Did blow my stock turbo a month after though

If the O2 sensors have been tightened to spec and it still happens, definitely swap the OE downpipe in and see what happens. Also, did you tighten the V-band down to 13Nm?
Yup.. definitely my next testing sets.. reset the entire Wagner DP, check all torque on everything and test again. If still have an issue, go back to OEM and test again. 8)

And WOAH.. on blowing your turbo!!!
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      03-15-2019, 12:05 PM   #19
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Well play by play updates..

Wagner - says they cant imagine their DP would cause misfire, makes sense

MHD - They say the shadow logs are exactly that, shadow and NOT ACTIVE. The date/time stamp is showing when you pulled the info, not when it happened. Feels like a false (historical) positive.

Pulling the DP - I am half done pulling the DP, and the first thing I have found is significant black carbon leak marks on the lower V band, so absolutely leaking and not tight enough. I dont see any similar carbon on the upper V band, but pulling the whole thing anyway. I want to reseat the O2 sensors, with 50nm torque.

The cylinder misfire feels like a false positive which ultimately is good. Changing my plugs was a net positive anyway, since I am 100rwp+ above stock.

I am hoping this is a simple leak issue and quick to fix.
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      03-15-2019, 01:00 PM   #20
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Ok.. DP is out.

No staining or marks around the upper V band so I think that was ok. I pulled the O2 sensors and reinstalled at 50nm with anti-seize on the threads. If you do this, there are warnings ALL OVER about dont get it on the sensor portion, just the threads, be careful.

The one thing I notice is that the O2's were significantly lighter color just a few days ago when I did the change.. they are COAL black now. Probably nothing.. just an interesting point.

I am sure they were not in at 50nm, but they are now.

Reinstall coming next, especially double checking that lower V band this time.
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      03-15-2019, 04:15 PM   #21
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Ironic that in your videos you were so positive on the new DP after install, but in reality you were having these misfire issues.

Hope you can get it all sorted out.
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      03-15-2019, 04:41 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.roro View Post
Ironic that in your videos you were so positive on the new DP after install, but in reality you were having these misfire issues.

Hope you can get it all sorted out.
I am still really positive and looks like I made an easy mistake and had the lower V band slightly out of position and likely not tight enough.

I have everything put back together, and confident its correct now including redoing the O2 sensors to ensure correct torque. I should be able to get out this afternoon for some test runs, but I feel really positive thus far.

All the help here has been great thank you! I never pretend to do things right every time, and even when I make a mistake and am open about it, maybe others can learn from me! 8)
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