[JNW1]

Originally Posted by Blacktemplar

I think this is where Audi have the edge. A fully-optioned S4 Avant with absolutely every box ticked comes in at under £53K on the road, to get a similar spec on the 340 you're looking at more than £56K.

OK, the Audi is an oil-burner, is slightly slower off the mark and you could perhaps call the driving dynamics into question, but it beats the BMW hands down on interior fit & finish. And it doesn't look like it's had botox injections or been glassed in a Glasgow bar fight.....

A shame Audi have gone diesel with the S4 as an Avant would have been very high on the list to replace my F31; however, I prefer petrol and now I'm not doing as many miles I've no real reason to have a diesel....

[JD6]

Originally Posted by Blacktemplar

OK, the Audi is an oil-burner, is slightly slower off the mark and you could perhaps call the driving dynamics into question, but it beats the BMW hands down on interior fit & finish.

I can see that the interior may well beat the F3x hands down, but is it really better than the G2x? My day with a G20 320d loan car was quite an eye opener - the interior is a major improvement on the F3x, and actually pretty similar quality to the G3x 5 Series in my view.

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by JD6

I can see that the interior may well beat the F3x hands down, but is it really better than the G2x? My day with a G20 320d loan car was quite an eye opener - the interior is a major improvement on the F3x, and actually pretty similar quality to the G3x 5 Series in my view.

I'd say the interior quality of my 5 series is about on a par with my SQ5....

[JNW1]

TRL has now published his offers on the M340i per the link below; not quite an 18% discount on the Touring but pushing 17%!

https://www.babybmw.net/forum/viewto...9739bc35fa912b

[mikeoz]

Not too bad for this early in release....

[TodmordenLad]

Originally Posted by Blacktemplar

I think this is where Audi have the edge. A fully-optioned S4 Avant with absolutely every box ticked comes in at under £53K on the road, to get a similar spec on the 340 you're looking at more than £56K.

OK, the Audi is an oil-burner, is slightly slower off the mark and you could perhaps call the driving dynamics into question, but it beats the BMW hands down on interior fit & finish. And it doesn't look like it's had botox injections or been glassed in a Glasgow bar fight.....

I like the look of the S4 Avant. Don't love it but prefer it to the new 3 Touring by some margin. Have read several reviews and they all agree on one thing in particular - the auto gearbox is shit. So, it's a non-starter for me, it would drive me nuts

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by TodmordenLad

I like the look of the S4 Avant. Don't love it but prefer it to the new 3 Touring by some margin. Have read several reviews and they all agree on one thing in particular - the auto gearbox is shit. So, it's a non-starter for me, it would drive me nuts

Don't Audi use the same ZF 8-speed auto the likes of BMW fit?

However, I see Drive The Deal are offering the S4 Avant at a discount of around 19% which suggests they're not exactly selling like hot cakes; could be the gearbox but I wouldn't mind betting a lot of buyers for a car of that type aren't looking for a diesel either.....

[TodmordenLad]

Originally Posted by JNW1

Don't Audi use the same ZF 8-speed auto the likes of BMW fit?

However, I see Drive The Deal are offering the S4 Avant at a discount of around 19% which suggests they're not exactly selling like hot cakes; could be the gearbox but I wouldn't mind betting a lot of buyers for a car of that type aren't looking for a diesel either.....

It'll be the gearbox AND the fuel. Don't think VAG use ZF boxes, happy to be corrected.
As Broncho will confirm, Audi auto boxes can be very trying

[TodmordenLad]

Originally Posted by JNW1

Don't Audi use the same ZF 8-speed auto the likes of BMW fit?

However, I see Drive The Deal are offering the S4 Avant at a discount of around 19% which suggests they're not exactly selling like hot cakes; could be the gearbox but I wouldn't mind betting a lot of buyers for a car of that type aren't looking for a diesel either.....

It'll be the gearbox AND the fuel. Don't think VAG use ZF boxes though, happy to be corrected.
As Broncho will confirm, Audi auto boxes can be very trying

[mikeoz]

Is it not a DSG box on S4?

[Cootie]

Quite a lot of firms offering gearbox remaps these days so shouldn’t be too much of a problem to fix for any car with the ZF box

[225]

Originally Posted by JNW1

Don't Audi use the same ZF 8-speed auto the likes of BMW fit?

However, I see Drive The Deal are offering the S4 Avant at a discount of around 19% which suggests they're not exactly selling like hot cakes; could be the gearbox but I wouldn't mind betting a lot of buyers for a car of that type aren't looking for a diesel either.....

Saw similar on coast2coast. Quick quote saw an s4 with sound pack at 43k, m340 touring and c43 premium plus about 48k. Bodes well if the likes of trl are offering those already.

[225]

Originally Posted by JNW1

Don't Audi use the same ZF 8-speed auto the likes of BMW fit?

However, I see Drive The Deal are offering the S4 Avant at a discount of around 19% which suggests they're not exactly selling like hot cakes; could be the gearbox but I wouldn't mind betting a lot of buyers for a car of that type aren't looking for a diesel either.....

Saw similar on coast2coast. Quick quote saw an s4 with sound pack at 43k, m340 touring and c43 premium plus about 48k. Bodes well if the likes of trl are offering those already.

[Wills2]

Originally Posted by TodmordenLad

It'll be the gearbox AND the fuel. Don't think VAG use ZF boxes though, happy to be corrected.
As Broncho will confirm, Audi auto boxes can be very trying

I believe they do use ZF8 in some cars like the RS6/7 the new S4 does have an 8 speed auto and I think it is the ZF8 as well, however each application will be specced and tuned differently.

[TodmordenLad]

Originally Posted by Wills2

I believe they do use ZF8 in some cars like the RS6/7 the new S4 does have an 8 speed auto and I think it is the ZF8 as well, however each application will be specced and tuned differently.

From a couple of reviews. Most major auto titles seem to say the same. If it's mapping/calibration, it's correctable, but only by Audi themselves presumably?

a)
"What lets the side down most is the eight-speed automatic gearbox. 
Audi – like the whole VW Group, and other manufacturers besides – has really struggled to make its once-peerless autos behave when shifting on a new WLTP-friendly strategy. It’s swift enough on the paddles, but the automatic mode is bizarre. Too keen to shift to high gears early on, it slurs the kickdown, and selects second or even first gears for mild prods of the throttle. What’s the point in having eight speeds and all that torque if the gearbox thinks it’s connected to a food blender?"

b)
"The issue here isn’t the technology, but the calibration of the engine and gearbox. Audi, like so many other marques, has as yet been unable to engineer its way around the WLTP regulations. So when you pull away from a junction, there’s a delay, the pedal response soft, then suddenly ramping up. Likewise when you accelerate coming out of a bend on a country road, the response isn’t quite where you want it. It’s close, good for a diesel, but not quite the crisp, immediate reaction you’d hope for.
And this is provided you’re changing gear manually. The eight-speed auto always seems to think differently to you about which gear it should be in. In my head 516lb ft of torque is a lot and should be allowed to get to work. But the first reaction when you ask anything of the drivetrain is to kickdown, which not only introduces another delay, but feels wrong in a diesel, which naturally feels and sounds better at low revs. Calibration is the issue here, and regulations are to blame."

[Wills2]

Yeah whatever they have done to the gearbox it hasn't won them much praise, I notice that Matt on carwow always complains about the reaction times of the Audi tuned ZF when he does those rolling races

[JNW1]

Well, had my first look at a G21 when I went into my local dealer this morning. Obviously it wasn't an M340i but nevertheless it seemed nice enough; however, if I'm honest I wasn't seeing something that felt worth at least three times the value of my F31 335d. Perhaps I'll feel different about the M340i version but I'm now beginning to wonder whether to keep the F31 as a daily and spend the funds that would have gone to buying a G21 on something that's more fun for sunny days; reckon £30k should buy something decent....

[TodmordenLad]

Originally Posted by JNW1

Well, had my first look at a G21 when I went into my local dealer this morning. Obviously it wasn't an M340i but nevertheless it seemed nice enough; however, if I'm honest I wasn't seeing something that felt worth at least three times the value of my F31 335d. Perhaps I'll feel different about the M340i version but I'm now beginning to wonder whether to keep the F31 as a daily and spend the funds that would have gone to buying a G21 on something that's more fun for sunny days; reckon £30k should buy something decent....

Sounds like a plan!

[mikeoz]

Originally Posted by JNW1

Well, had my first look at a G21 when I went into my local dealer this morning. Obviously it wasn't an M340i but nevertheless it seemed nice enough; however, if I'm honest I wasn't seeing something that felt worth at least three times the value of my F31 335d. Perhaps I'll feel different about the M340i version but I'm now beginning to wonder whether to keep the F31 as a daily and spend the funds that would have gone to buying a G21 on something that's more fun for sunny days; reckon £30k should buy something decent....

I would have to agree after spending a few days in a G20. I was not blown away either. I guess i will have to replace my f31 at some point....

[225]

As if by magic coast2coast emailed with m340 offers. 14% off so 53k became 45k 4.9% apr.

Not as high as trl but getting there.

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by TodmordenLad

It'll be the gearbox AND the fuel. Don't think VAG use ZF boxes though, happy to be corrected.
As Broncho will confirm, Audi auto boxes can be very trying

I had an A6 bitdi with a very similar engine to the S4 diesel. It had a ZF8 speed in it and I honestly can't tell the difference between its performance in the 440, or the A6. Both really good.

Yes they can be ponderous, in comfort the 440i reacts really slowly, but in Sport it's fine. Similarly the Audi is slow to react in standard mode, whatever it's called. But, if you put it in dynamic it's just as reactive as the BMW in Sport.

The Audi also benefits from remembering what more you want, you can put it in dynamic and leave it there forever. In the 440i, I have to put it into sport every time I get in.

Thinking about it, we have the ZF in the Q7 as well and I swap from one car to the other all the time. It's been set to dynamic from day 1 of ownership and never changed. I never notice that one version, BMW, or Audi, is set up any better than the other.

[TodmordenLad]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

I had an A6 bitdi with a very similar engine to the S4 diesel. It had a ZF8 speed in it and I honestly can't tell the difference between its performance in the 440, or the A6. Both really good.

Yes they can be ponderous, in comfort the 440i reacts really slowly, but in Sport it's fine. Similarly the Audi is slow to react in standard mode, whatever it's called. But, if you put it in dynamic it's just as reactive as the BMW in Sport.

The Audi also benefits from remembering what more you want, you can put it in dynamic and leave it there forever. In the 440i, I have to put it into sport every time I get in.

Thinking about it, we have the ZF in the Q7 as well and I swap from one car to the other all the time. It's been set to dynamic from day 1 of ownership and never changed. I never notice that one version, BMW, or Audi, is set up any better than the other.

That's useful, thx
The reviews I've read suggest that things have gone awry since the intro of WLTP regs as Audi's auto boxes prior to that were excellent. Not sure if that has any bearing on your own experience timing wise?
PS what do journos know after half an hour in the car anyway? :