10-26-2019, 09:29 PM | #23 |
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So, huge update here:
I just (partially) removed/reinstalled the CP yet again today. Before doing so, I revised by boost leak tester and got that working to confirm the location of any leaks. Turns out, the VRSF CP-IC connection was leaking despite already using the 4mm Oring. Quite annoying. I removed the CP from the TB and from the IC because I did not want to drop the IC or completely removed the CP again. I pulled out the 4mm Oring and tried the 4.5mmx60mm Oring again. There was no way it was going to fit (I had already tried a few weeks ago with the CP/IC completely out of the car). I was second away from just RTVing the connection with the 4mm Oring when I decided to try and modify the 4.5mm Oring to fit…. With sand paper wrapped around a drill, I VERY SLIGHTLY sanded down the inner diameter of the 4.5mm Oring being sure to have it rotate while being sanded so as to not take material off in only one spot. I took off probably 0.1mm from the ID, just enough to have a barely noticeable change in the ID (from perfectly round ID to slightly flat). I put the Oring back in the CP from under the car, and it still wouldn’t go on, until I used an excessive amount of force… I had to take a large pry bar and pry down against the lip on the outside of the CP (forcing it onto IC), bracing against the frame, while reaching up with my left hand and pulling as hard as I could down toward the IC. The entire IC was flexing quite a bit; I was worried I was going to break it off the mounts (it was still mounted and TIC attached). Even then, it took several tries and it barely wanted to go on. At first I couldn’t even get the clip on until I got it just far enough to get a screwdriver into the clip spot and sneak it down far enough to get the clip in. As you can imagine, the IC-CP connection has absolutely zero play now. Following that I reinstalled at the TB (still using the larger-than-stock Oring), double checked the clamps, etc, and proceeding to boost leak test – FINALLY, NO LEAK AT THE CP-IC CONNECTION. Needless to say, there is absolutely no way the VRSF IC-VRSF CP would work with a stock Oring. It would not even work with the 4mmx59mm, which is already much larger than stock. It took the above to finally get it sealed. So, I guess I am just the unlucky one here? I can only assume it is the connection on the VRSF IC cold side, since the VRSF CP seemed to fit tighter on the stock IC than the VRSF IC, even with stock Oring. Such a F-ing nightmare this has been.I guess I just got a “bad” VRSF IC where the cold side connection is too small in diameter to seal properly. My logs look much better, thankfully. I still don’t completely reach boost in 1st, but I guess that is normal? Here are some before and after today’s fix (the “best” ones) BEFORE: 1-4: https://datazap.me/u/thejeremyman9/1...=0&data=5-6-25 4: https://datazap.me/u/thejeremyman9/4...=0&data=5-6-25 AFTER: 1-4: https://datazap.me/u/thejeremyman9/1...=0&data=5-6-25 4: https://datazap.me/u/thejeremyman9/4...=0&data=5-6-25 I still don’t get why 4th is below target by a bit early on, or why I almost always get the throttle closure mid pull (trying to help boost reach target?) but that has been in every single one of my logs since flashing stage 1 and MHD said it was OK… I will post in the boost leak tester thread tomorrow with how I finally got that to work. |
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hardparker299.00 Eddamoo391.00 |
10-26-2019, 10:43 PM | #24 | |
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10-26-2019, 10:52 PM | #25 | |
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Funny enough, my problems started with the VRSF CP and stock IC, but yes that connection is tighter. Makes me think the IC connection is a bit smaller and the CP one larger. I was still had oil coming out with the stock intercooler. Ill be buying BM3 soon so that'll help me know for sure. |
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10-26-2019, 11:12 PM | #26 | ||
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Hate to say but if oil can come out, air can too... do you have VRSF CP+IC now? What problems do/did you have? I agree, this has been a bit ridiculous; i specifically got the VRSF CP and IC in the same order to avoid this. |
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10-27-2019, 09:50 AM | #27 | |
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10-27-2019, 12:14 PM | #28 | |
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I tried exactly what you said. A couple weeks ago i completely removed the VRSF IC and CP and tried all the different size Orings with the IC on the ground. There was no way the 4.5mmx60mm Oring was going to fit, even will all my body weight/force and the IC on the ground with ideal leverage, it wouldnt go on. That's why i went with the 4mmx59mm last time; it was the biggest i could fit. This time around knowing it was insufficient, i sanded down the 4.5mmx60mm until i could JUST force it on. As long as the car drives ok and your logs look on point in terms of boost targets and WGDC, i would just leave it honestly. Even if you have a slight leak, probably not worth it to go through all this for a neglible improvement. |
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10-27-2019, 02:00 PM | #30 | |
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Hindsight 20/20, i wish i would have just gotten the AA CP/IC combo instead, but no guarantee that would have worked flawlessly. |
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10-27-2019, 04:32 PM | #31 | |
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10-28-2019, 09:18 AM | #32 | |
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10-29-2019, 02:35 PM | #33 |
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VRSF products don't have the best build quality. Many have had issues with fitment. It's my understanding that the VRSF charge pipes were revised at some point in the late summer. Perhaps they using a new vendor for the flanges and the diameters are a bit larger than the ones previously used?
With that said, there's good reason why BMW uses plastic for the CP and the flanges. They have a bit of flex and expansion to seal themselves fully to the throttle body and IC. A metal charge pipe solely lies on the o-rings to do this and is why some people have issues with boost leaks and metal charge pipes.
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11-04-2019, 12:02 AM | #34 |
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FWIW - I have the VRSF 5" HD IC and matching chargepipe - and I've been around German and Japanese import performance for a solid 20+ years. Build quality, even from the most respected brands can sometimes be iffy. It's REALLY hard to match OEM quality.
But my story is... the IC went in fine, mounted up fine. So ok VRSF IC for me. BUT the VRSF chargepipe. I'd give it a 7/8 of 10 in build quality. It's a decent thickness aluminum and nice black/crinkle finish. But the inside of the pipe on mine was unfinished. NO polish or deburring, so there's going to be some turbulence in there. As far as the install, if NOT connected to the IC, with an OEM o-ring, the CP when on/off with a good push. BUT once hooked up to the IC, it was a bear to get on. I ended up coating the (new) OEM BMW O-ring with synthetic oil, jiggling the connecting coupler to the IC, and finally muscled it on. The CP is pretty snug, not much play if any. Just me 2-cents. I'd advise OK in the VRSF intercooler, but the CP... I'd have to look at a competing brand/unit to really say buy/don't buy. |
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11-04-2019, 11:41 AM | #35 | |
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My VRSF IC came with a handful of bent fins out of the box (which seems about par for the course) in addition to some actual damage to one of the bars across the middle. My VRSF CP was the same as yours - inside was not cleaned up, and there was overspray from the black finish all over the inside of the pipe as well. In terms of the fitment you describe, mine was nowhere near that. With stock Oring, you could literally move/rattle the CP-IC connection from side and side and essentially in all directions with free play, even after the clip was on. It required zero effort and simply slid/fell on with gravity. The 4mm Oring was better, but verified to still leak with my boost leak tester. It wasnt until i fit the slightly sanded 4.5mm Oring that it finally had a tight connection and sealed. And yes, i used motor oil to aid in getting the connections to slide on. I am not bashing VRSF productions or anything, i guess i was just the unlucky one with a IC-CP connection thats way out of spec. It seems this is probably uncommon but not a one-off incident. |
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11-04-2019, 01:14 PM | #36 | |
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11-04-2019, 05:45 PM | #37 | ||
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I think the moral of the story for this thread is to have these non-OEM Orings on hand if you plan to do any aftermarket IC or CP install. It simply isnt worth the risk of just assuming the stock Oring will seal an aftermarket IC/CP connection. I should have known from the very beginning the connection was not going to seal well enough, but thats before the hours of research on the forums and taking everything apart 2 additional times experimenting with different Orings. |
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11-04-2019, 05:59 PM | #38 |
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@thejeremyman9 - man, so it sounds like your CP intake connector was either over machined or they grabbed the wrong size tube off the V8 pile(?) before they welded it on the jig.
Your thread is a good one. If anything, some poor soul out there will find this thread and know they aren't crazy. Just sorry you had to deal with this. |
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11-04-2019, 06:16 PM | #39 | |
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11-04-2019, 08:40 PM | #40 | |
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Honestly i would just order the 4mmx59mm, 4.5mmx60mm, and 4mmx81mm (for the CP-TB connection) Orings to have on hand before even trying the install. Two of each of the first ones if you are worried about TIC-IC connection as well. Small price to pay for insurance against a leak and having to install twice. If you are paranoid or want to be absolutely sure, you can make a boost leak tester how i describe in the other thread. |
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11-05-2019, 01:05 AM | #41 |
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Been following this thread since it started. I have FTP tic, VRSF ic and cp. Went ahead and replaced the stock o rings in my tic and the ic. Did a log and my boost actually went above target and got throttle closures, it's been below target for months. I've long suspected the connection between the ic and cp, it moved around bit too much. Thanks for sharing
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11-05-2019, 09:41 AM | #42 |
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FWIW my new VRSF CP fits very well into my AA FMIC using new OEM o-rings on both ends. I used plumbers tape on the bung threads and cranked them down tight. The new position of the silicone coupler is much better now as well. It can be tightened from the top whereas the old one required the removal of the belly pan to get to the clamps from under the car. No boost leaks.
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Last edited by XxThe_RemedyXx; 11-05-2019 at 12:38 PM.. |
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11-05-2019, 11:46 AM | #43 | ||
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I suspect it went above target because your WGDC and other adaptations were making up for a boost leak. If you reset adaptations or just give it some time i imagine the boost control will be on point. Quote:
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11-05-2019, 01:07 PM | #44 | |
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I still have my stock IC on, is it even worth changing it out at this point? |
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