[FaRKle!]

Originally Posted by McLaren720s

I’ll have the shop take your suggestion into consideration. Aren’t you running this exact same setup without issues? That’s your negative camber set to?

Yes I have the same K-MAC tension strut and wishbone bushings, however my ride height isn't much lower than OE. My hub to fender distance is about 14" in the front. IIRC my lowest front hub to fender distance was around 13.75".

[McLaren720s]

Well, K-MAC said there shouldn’t be any problems even if your car is lowered so I don’t know if he understood what I was asking, but nevertheless, my shop said they’re going to look at the entire geometry of the suspension and arms after install and go from there with best adjustments.

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by pkiledj

I have a f30 335ix 6MT. Love the car but even with Dinan springs, bump stops, Shockware, car still feels as heavy as it is. Any advice on making the car feel more nibble? How about sway bars?

You f'ed up by getting a 335i. You should have gone with a mid 2000s dually with a lift kit if you really want nimble handling.

[FaRKle!]

Originally Posted by McLaren720s

Well, K-MAC said there shouldn’t be any problems even if your car is lowered so I don’t know if he understood what I was asking, but nevertheless, my shop said they’re going to look at the entire geometry of the suspension and arms after install and go from there with best adjustments.

Australia doesn't get any xDrive F3x, so K-MAC wouldn't know at what lowering limit their camber bushings cause axle failure.

I did the beta testing for the tension strut and camber bushings for K-MAC. It was VERY obvious that they hadn't tried to put them on our xDrive cars when I got the parts. I went through three iterations of the tension strut bushings alone.

[McLaren720s]

Originally Posted by FaRKle!

Australia doesn't get any xDrive F3x, so K-MAC wouldn't know at what lowering limit their camber bushings cause axle failure.

I did the beta testing for the tension strut and camber bushings for K-MAC. It was VERY obvious that they hadn't tried to put them on our xDrive cars when I got the parts. I went through three iterations of the tension strut bushings alone.

So is there anything that the shop can do to safely extract maximum or close to maximum negative camber with these bushings on a lowered car?
If not, I might just return these and call it a day. Why pay for these and risk damage for hardly any camber?

[FaRKle!]

Originally Posted by McLaren720s

So is there anything that the shop can do to safely extract maximum or close to maximum negative camber with these bushings on a lowered car?
If not, I might just return these and call it a day. Why pay for these and risk damage for hardly any camber?

Maybe they can try and feel how close the axle is to popping while they adjust the camber, but aside from that, I don't think any shop is going to want to take the task on (or the liability).

You still need to do your homework too by taking a look at your suspension geometry with the current amount of lowering you have and seeing what your hub to fender measurements are.

[pkiledj]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

You f'ed up by getting a 335i. You should have gone with a mid 2000s dually with a lift kit if you really want nimble handling.

Not nimble

[McLaren720s]

Originally Posted by FaRKle!

Maybe they can try and feel how close the axle is to popping while they adjust the camber, but aside from that, I don't think any shop is going to want to take the task on (or the liability).

You still need to do your homework too by taking a look at your suspension geometry with the current amount of lowering you have and seeing what your hub to fender measurements are.

A quick measurement from the center of the hub to fender shows exactly 13.5 inches

[kern417]

Get camber plates and a more aggressive alignment up front.

Rear Sway bar

Stiffer rear springs

[andino]

Originally Posted by McLaren720s

A quick measurement from the center of the hub to fender shows exactly 13.5 inches

I'm at 13.5" and I ran -1.1 no problem when I had camber bushings

[pkiledj]

Originally Posted by kern417

Get camber plates and a more aggressive alignment up front.

Rear Sway bar

Stiffer rear springs

Is this advice just in general or specifically for the xdrive?

[kern417]

Originally Posted by pkiledj

Is this advice just in general or specifically for the xdrive?

In general. BMW puts more bias to the rear so the front has less traction and tends to understeer. You need to push more traction to the front end and stiffen up the rear to promote rotation and hide the car's weight.

[McLaren720s]

The KMAC camber and caster adjustable bushing were a borderline useless upgrade. Hardly any difference outside of slightly better cornering due to the increased negative camber at -1.75. No change in steering feel or response.
And the shop didn’t think it was a very high quality product either.

Waste of $1500!

[SoCalCarGuy]

Originally Posted by McLaren720s

Well, K-MAC said there shouldn't be any problems even if your car is lowered so I don't know if he understood what I was asking, but nevertheless, my shop said they're going to look at the entire geometry of the suspension and arms after install and go from there with best adjustments.

He told me that too. Ha! $2k repair bill later and he still told me it shouldn't have happened.

[FaRKle!]

Originally Posted by McLaren720s

The KMAC camber and caster adjustable bushing were a borderline useless upgrade. Hardly any difference outside of slightly better cornering due to the increased negative camber at -1.75. No change in steering feel or response.
And the shop didn’t think it was a very high quality product either.

Waste of $1500!

What were your final alignment specs?

There are a couple of reasons you may be feeling the way you do:
1) Alignment not set up to take advantage of parts, or out of cal alignment rack so you don't have what you think you have.
2) Other limiting factors on your car, so the headroom the bushings provide can't be reached.
3) You're just numb, and can't feel the difference, in which case no other bushings/monoballs will help you either.

If you really think that a degree of camber change doesn't have much effect when the suspension is properly aligned, well there's plenty of evidence to the contrary...

[pkiledj]

Originally Posted by McLaren720s

The KMAC camber and caster adjustable bushing were a borderline useless upgrade. Hardly any difference outside of slightly better cornering due to the increased negative camber at -1.75. No change in steering feel or response.
And the shop didn’t think it was a very high quality product either.

Waste of $1500!

You paid $1500 to replace 2 sets of bushings?

Or does that include the price of bushings, which are like $700-800 for all 4 right?

Thanks for the feedback! I was skeptical about the improved steering from bushings. I think the issue with the steering in our cars is the servotronic more so than bushings. But that's just a guess, I'm by no means an expert.

Man I miss my e46. So far I'm at $2500 in mods and still chasing the e46 feeling. Hmm...

[motoring_101]

Originally Posted by pkiledj

Man I miss my e46. So far I'm at $2500 in mods and still chasing the e46 feeling. Hmm...

Haha!! I am on exactly the same mission! So far i have spent £80 on a 15mm Rear Anti-roll bar and £200 on Poly Bushes for Tension Arms

The Rear bar made a huge difference to the feel of the car, really makes it more solid, As did the poly bushes in place of the hydro bushes, I can definitely feel more through the steering, only negative is that you can now feel the under steer!!

The only issue i see with the poly bushes is that they do not allow any lateral pivoting which i presume a uniball bushing would, when you move the sterring through its full range with hydro bushes they pivot laterally, i am not sure stopping this is a good thing as the suspension maybe designed to pivot at that point, this maybe why some say poly bushes don't last.

[pkiledj]

Originally Posted by motoring_101

Haha!! I am on exactly the same mission! So far i have spent £80 on a 15mm Rear Anti-roll bar and £200 on Poly Bushes for Tension Arms

The Rear bar made a huge difference to the feel of the car, really makes it more solid, As did the poly bushes in place of the hydro bushes, I can definitely feel more through the steering, only negative is that you can now feel the under steer!!

The only issue i see with the poly bushes is that they do not allow any lateral pivoting which i presume a uniball bushing would, when you move the sterring through its full range with hydro bushes they pivot laterally, i am not sure stopping this is a good thing as the suspension maybe designed to pivot at that point, this maybe why some say poly bushes don't last.

Xdrive or rwd?

[motoring_101]

Originally Posted by pkiledj

Xdrive or rwd?

X-drive, next up is springs, probably Eibach but i keep swaying between the 05 and 06 springs. I think the 05 are stiffer and lower at the front however i read that the rearwards rake of the 06 helps limit understeer by keeping more weight over the rear.

[pkiledj]

Originally Posted by motoring_101

X-drive, next up is springs, probably Eibach but i keep swaying between the 05 and 06 springs. I think the 05 are stiffer and lower at the front however i read that the rearwards rake of the 06 helps limit understeer by keeping more weight over the rear.

Which brand for the antiroll bar? Link? I think I'm going to install the antiroll bar before the monoballs, just makes more sense to me.

I have the Dinan springs/bump stops/ Shockware, definitely a huge improvement over stock but still way too soft and floaty in comfort mode.

[kern417]

I should clarify that my mods were strictly for performance. The car will rotate easier, but it won't necessarily communicate better. Some mods will be worthwhile if you're timing laps, but may not net a huge difference in "feel."

You can tune the differences in feel through the steering wheel, but it won't match a hydraulic system. You just have to be more aware of where the car is. I enjoy the feel of hunkered down stability so I like my 4 series, but if you want a light, nimble go kart then it's not going to get you there. Primarily you need something with a shorter wheel base.

[skier_du]

Originally Posted by kern417

In general. BMW puts more bias to the rear so the front has less traction and tends to understeer. You need to push more traction to the front end and stiffen up the rear to promote rotation and hide the car's weight.

I agree with this statement. My car definitely had an understeer tendency even with camber plates and KW V3 and toe arms in the rear. The front pushes until you tighten that up. The monoballs helped that tremendously. And the rear wants to oscillate back and forth because there's so much rubber back there. I replaced every arm back there and put in the Powerflex race subframe inserts. Now the feels more neutral and responsive and stable. I'm xDrive also and haven't touched the sway bars. The rear has no problem coming around on the track.
Also don't underestimate how much an alignment effects the tendencies of how the car rotates. Anything close to factory specs will make it not as responsive and tend to understeer. A little toe in at the rear with 0 toe or even toe out at the front, with as much camber as you can get away with (3.2 for track & 2 degrees for street is what I run at the front) will help make it feel more alive.

Originally Posted by FaRKle!

This is the K-MAC tension strut monoball. PN is 193916-7J.

Additionally, I saw on Bimmerworld that SPL makes one too, but it doesn't have as large of a caster adjustment range or look as well sealed as K-MAC's.

Interesting you bring up the sealing of the SPL arms. I saw a recent post where someone mentioned they claim those bushings will last years. I brought this up with Tony at VAC. He said they would make arms like that if someone wants them. But it would be with sealed, factory style bearings similar to their monoballs (both tension and LCA) they are now making. That's because they use the same type of ball joint as SPL on their race cars. Those joints often don't even make it through 1 race season without needing to be replaced. Let alone a street car with all the dirt (and salt if you live in the north)