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      07-02-2020, 11:17 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uhdimzy View Post
I thought maybe my questions may help with discussing the parameters which is why I posted!

But, I agree should keep this as a strictly datalogging discussion thread.

You can maybe add a disclaimer in the first post somewhere to remind users to direct questions about their own datalogs to the other threads you mentioned
You're right based on some of your questions in there, maybe my half asleep response last night was too hasty lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uhdimzy View Post
Thanks for the writeup OP. I assessed a recent log with parameters I think would be the most important to look at first. Was wondering if someone can look it over and answer the questions I had.

Log: https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5efd...90c615fc46da3c

IAT - At high levels in general and increasing quickly. What damage can high IAT cause?

Boost - MAP Meeting target

Timing - Consistent for most part other then Cyl 3
A previously log also showed that Cyl 3 with not consistent with the rest (https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5ee2...0b437a71e5d359) what does that mean?

Knocks - None

2013 335i PWG
Stage 1 Bm3 & ER CP
Temperature outside was 88 degrees F
I just looked through the log:

IAT - The IATs already start at a high value, almost 30F over ambient. Were you at a stop light or in traffic right before this? That could explain why they started so high. The significant rise is typical of stock IC, which is why i always recommend a IC even for stage 1. High IATs in themselves do not necessarily cause damage, but significantly increase the likelihood of knock and timing being pulled, especially if the octane of your fuel isnt great. High IATs are not good for power.

Boost - generally OK, but boost control for the first half of the pull is a bit erratic/wavy. So its WGDC.

timing - looks surprisingly good for the really high IATs, especially if this is a 91 tune. If one cylinder is always getting timing pulled it suggests there might be a plug issue or a coil issue. Could be as simple as the gap is different than the rest by a few thousandths.


Throttle angle - seems to feed in slowly rather than opening all at once. Don't usually see that in BM3 logs, at least not stage 2, but doesnt necessarily mean there is an issue.

Also, MAF - do you have an intake, air scoop, or anything not stock on intake? The reading is pretty erratic.
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      07-02-2020, 01:19 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by uhdimzy View Post
I thought maybe my questions may help with discussing the parameters which is why I posted!

But, I agree should keep this as a strictly datalogging discussion thread.

You can maybe add a disclaimer in the first post somewhere to remind users to direct questions about their own datalogs to the other threads you mentioned
You're right based on some of your questions in there, maybe my half asleep response last night was too hasty lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uhdimzy View Post
Thanks for the writeup OP. I assessed a recent log with parameters I think would be the most important to look at first. Was wondering if someone can look it over and answer the questions I had.

Log: https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5efd...90c615fc46da3c

IAT - At high levels in general and increasing quickly. What damage can high IAT cause?

Boost - MAP Meeting target

Timing - Consistent for most part other then Cyl 3
A previously log also showed that Cyl 3 with not consistent with the rest (https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5ee2...0b437a71e5d359) what does that mean?

Knocks - None

2013 335i PWG
Stage 1 Bm3 & ER CP
Temperature outside was 88 degrees F
I just looked through the log:

IAT - The IATs already start at a high value, almost 30F over ambient. Were you at a stop light or in traffic right before this? That could explain why they started so high. The significant rise is typical of stock IC, which is why i always recommend a IC even for stage 1. High IATs in themselves do not necessarily cause damage, but significantly increase the likelihood of knock and timing being pulled, especially if the octane of your fuel isnt great. High IATs are not good for power.

Boost - generally OK, but boost control for the first half of the pull is a bit erratic/wavy. So its WGDC.

timing - looks surprisingly good for the really high IATs, especially if this is a 91 tune. If one cylinder is always getting timing pulled it suggests there might be a plug issue or a coil issue. Could be as simple as the gap is different than the rest by a few thousandths.


Throttle angle - seems to feed in slowly rather than opening all at once. Don't usually see that in BM3 logs, at least not stage 2, but doesnt necessarily mean there is an issue.

Also, MAF - do you have an intake, air scoop, or anything not stock on intake? The reading is pretty erratic.
Iat - was on a 2hr drive on highway and then stopped for 15mins to get bm3 device setup and went back on hwy and did the log. Looks like I need an upgraded intercooler and to just limit back to back WOT pulls until then?

Timing - do I need to have the spark plugs taken out and gap checked again or is this difference in cyl 3 ok? will read the threads on proper plug gaps

Maf - stock intake

thank you for your help! Overall seems pretty good from my understanding and not much to worry about other then my IAT
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      07-02-2020, 01:30 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uhdimzy View Post
Iat - was on a 2hr drive on highway and then stopped for 15mins to get bm3 device setup and went back on hwy and did the log. Looks like I need an upgraded intercooler and to just limit back to back WOT pulls until then?

Timing - do I need to have the spark plugs taken out and gap checked again or is this difference in cyl 3 ok? will read the threads on proper plug gaps

Maf - stock intake

thank you for your help! Overall seems pretty good from my understanding and not much to worry about other then my IAT
IAT - stopping is probably what heat soaked the IC before the log started. You need constant air flow to keep it as close to ambient temp as possible. The huge IAT rise during the log is because the stock IC is so small. So yes, i agree, limit back to back pulls with stock IC, and my recommendation is to upgrade if you want consistent performance and to keep IATs in check.

Timing - I mean honestly you can just pull plug 3 and look at it and check gap... I dont think you said - OEM plugs? Mileage? Gap? Its not a major issue, you can keep running it as it is without danger or anything, but if you are in pursuit of perfect timing and especially if the plugs are already old anyways, it might be time to check that one or change them all.

MAF - strange the readings are all over the place then, but i see that on quite a few logs... no idea why . Mine are just a smooth curve.

Yup i think you were on point.
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      07-24-2020, 12:47 PM   #26
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Giving this thread a bump since it is a bit buried now and it might get some new eyes on it

For anyone new - read the OP

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1732327

Last edited by thejeremyman9; 07-24-2020 at 01:01 PM..
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      09-18-2020, 06:07 PM   #27
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Free bump!

Just updated the first post with some additional details (in blue) and helpful links for logging with JB4.
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      10-28-2020, 04:05 AM   #28
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First of all thank you for the detailed information. Please let me know if my logs okay.

2013 n55 8at
PWG
catless downpipe and charge pipe.
Stage 1 ACN Bootmod3 with 107k miles
Just changed the oem spark plugs to oem



https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f8b...0b43676892a3ef
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      10-28-2020, 10:30 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcordier View Post
First of all thank you for the detailed information. Please let me know if my logs okay.

2013 n55 8at
PWG
catless downpipe and charge pipe.
Stage 1 ACN Bootmod3 with 107k miles
Just changed the oem spark plugs to oem



https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f8b...0b43676892a3ef
Please post logs for review in a different thread, like the BM3 one or your own thread if you feel it is warranted, and keep this thread for questions about datalogging itself.

Having said that nothing looks 'wrong' with your log. Timing isnt very good, especially for already being on ACN map, but its likely just fuel quality and IATs... Boost also falls off up top but thats typical for PWG. Your IATs are high and you have a huge IAT increase over the pull even though its pretty short because you are on stock IC, which is why i tell everyone to get an IC if you are going to be tuning your car at all.

Get a 'proper' 4th gear log or two and post it in another thread if you want to follow up.
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      10-29-2020, 03:06 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcordier View Post
First of all thank you for the detailed information. Please let me know if my logs okay.

2013 n55 8at
PWG
catless downpipe and charge pipe.
Stage 1 ACN Bootmod3 with 107k miles
Just changed the oem spark plugs to oem



https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f8b...0b43676892a3ef
Please post logs for review in a different thread, like the BM3 one or your own thread if you feel it is warranted, and keep this thread for questions about datalogging itself.

Having said that nothing looks 'wrong' with your log. Timing isnt very good, especially for already being on ACN map, but its likely just fuel quality and IATs... Boost also falls off up top but thats typical for PWG. Your IATs are high and you have a huge IAT increase over the pull even though its pretty short because you are on stock IC, which is why i tell everyone to get an IC if you are going to be tuning your car at all.

Get a 'proper' 4th gear log or two and post it in another thread if you want to follow up.
Sorry for posting here. I thought you said if we decided to post just include all the info which I did. Thank you for your help though. I'm definitely going to get an intercooler.
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      11-30-2020, 08:57 PM   #31
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Wow thanks you for this awesome post, a real pleasure to read.
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      12-02-2020, 08:27 AM   #32
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Amazing post! This is the kind of thing forums should be about more than bickering over who has the dopest CF lip bro!

I took notes on a little 5.5 in x 8.5 in ledger pad on my desk as I read through this. Walked away with about 9 pages of notes! I also learned a good bit about MHD and it makes me feel even more confident going this route as opposed to some other options I considered.

Quote:
1b. Check load versus load target (only applies to load-based tunes, i.e., stock, MHD)

You can only do this check if you are running a load-based tune. The idea here is the same as checking boost versus boost target, and generally speaking, the boost curves should have the same shape and behavior as the boost curves (although there are other factors at play). Being within about 5-10% of load target is ideal. More is not necessarily an issue unless you are massively below target and have boost or other issues at the same time. If you exceed load target, you likely exceeded boost target, and will probably have throttle closures. In a simple way load is essentially what is sounds like, the load on the engine, so the load target is a way to more or less target a specific power level. This is why a load-based tune will adjust boost and other parameters to meet load target. For example I have seen MHD target high 15psi to low 18psi range at the same load request on the same tune depending on the conditions.
Is there a typo in this section?

I liked how you included an example data log in the Manifold Boost v. Target Boost section. Did you thought about included similar examples for these other parameters that should be reviewed?
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Last edited by silvrbreez; 12-02-2020 at 10:25 AM..
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      12-02-2020, 08:33 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silvrbreez View Post
Amazing post! This is the kind of thing forums should be about more than bickering over who has the dopest CF lip bro!

I took notes on a little 5.5 in x 8.5 in ledger pad on my desk as I read through this. Walked away with about 9 pages of notes! I also learned a good bit about MHD and it makes me feel even more confident going this route as opposed to some other options I considered.



Is there a typo in this section?

I liked how you included an example data log in the Manifold Boost v. Target Boost section. Did you thought about included similar examples for these other parameters that should be reviewed?
Yup, indeed that was a typo - load and boost curves should follow eachother. Good catch, i updated the OP. Also added some additional clarification on throttle position based on question in MHD thread.

I included logs in a couple sections to show specific concepts, yeah. Although i didnt explicitily include a log in each section, realsitically you can look at any of my logs posted up there and use them as examples when checking the different parameters. If you feel like one specific section needs a log or two as an example to better understand, let me know.
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      12-03-2020, 11:33 AM   #34
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Much needed in the community and for myself as well, cheers.
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      12-09-2020, 09:03 AM   #35
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Did three pulls this morning. It was pretty cold out put I wanted to start doing some logs before installing FMIC & CP. This guide was incredibly helpful. The notes you added on 12/2 about throttle position vs. pedal % on a stock tune was helpful and lines up spot on.

Now, I have everything except VANOS parameters turned on in MHD but I still don't seem to have quite the parameters being track as you do on some of the runs you shared. Specifically, I don't see where I can select or am reporting values for HPFP, torque limits, and timing correction (to name a few). I wonder if those become available as parameters once you start flashing?

Sorry if I missed that someone in the original post.
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      12-09-2020, 11:19 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silvrbreez View Post
Did three pulls this morning. It was pretty cold out put I wanted to start doing some logs before installing FMIC & CP. This guide was incredibly helpful. The notes you added on 12/2 about throttle position vs. pedal % on a stock tune was helpful and lines up spot on.

Now, I have everything except VANOS parameters turned on in MHD but I still don't seem to have quite the parameters being track as you do on some of the runs you shared. Specifically, I don't see where I can select or am reporting values for HPFP, torque limits, and timing correction (to name a few). I wonder if those become available as parameters once you start flashing?

Sorry if I missed that someone in the original post.
I may not have mentioned that in OP, but indeed you don't have all the parameters available without flashing. The other ones should pop up as options in the parameter selections screen once you flash. I suppose you could install MHD and then flash stage 0 to gain access to those parameters while still being on stock tune, but at the time i didnt know that, so i just logged the completely stock car with the monitoring module before flashing at all.
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      12-09-2020, 06:54 PM   #37
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Such an informative thread. Thanks thejeremyman9
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      12-11-2020, 04:00 PM   #38
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I was about to post my BM3 logs to the forum for feedback and came across this post. It’s absolutely fantastic!!! I’ve spent the last hour using the post as a reference guide to read my logs which I discovered look normal but I did see where traction control was kicking in.
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      12-11-2020, 06:43 PM   #39
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I was about to post my BM3 logs to the forum for feedback and came across this post. It’s absolutely fantastic!!! I’ve spent the last hour using the post as a reference guide to read my logs which I discovered look normal but I did see where traction control was kicking in.
Glad to see it's serving its purpose!
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      04-16-2021, 08:12 AM   #40
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2021 bump! Great info from OP, thanks! Curious if MHD monitor license is my best bet for logging or if there is a better value option out there? (Currently on MHD Stage 2+ tune)
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      04-16-2021, 09:43 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by motoseb97 View Post
2021 bump! Great info from OP, thanks! Curious if MHD monitor license is my best bet for logging or if there is a better value option out there? (Currently on MHD Stage 2+ tune)
Good time for a bump

And you should just get the MHD monitor license. Well worth the money and other cheaper/free options will not have MHD "proprietary" logging parameters.
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      04-16-2021, 09:46 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
Good time for a bump

And you should just get the MHD monitor license. Well worth the money and other cheaper/free options will not have MHD "proprietary" logging parameters.
Just purchased it thanks to your advice. Will do some logs next week and see how it goes. Thanks again
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      04-26-2021, 10:14 PM   #43
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thejeremyman9

You mentioned something interesting that many few people have talked bout on any forums on the N55, The DME targets more timing when there is less boost.

Why is that? I have seen that happen randomly on some logs from run to run on a friends car. Where sometimes boost is high and timing low, but another log, boost is a bit lower and timing is higher?
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      04-27-2021, 11:32 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5soko View Post
thejeremyman9

You mentioned something interesting that many few people have talked bout on any forums on the N55, The DME targets more timing when there is less boost.

Why is that? I have seen that happen randomly on some logs from run to run on a friends car. Where sometimes boost is high and timing low, but another log, boost is a bit lower and timing is higher?
Well basically, there's two ways to make more power - more boost or more timing. There are of course practical limits to both because you need to prevent knock/detonation and make sure you don't create too much cylinder pressure. You will see that a stock tune N55 targets quite a bit of timing, typically more than a stage 2 91 octane map for example, because of the lower boost. But that extra boost outweights the timing, so you make more power, so long as you can support the timing without too much correction.

Different tuners use different approaches (i.e. more timing vs more boost), but for our engines we are pretty much always operating at the limit of how much timing you can run, which is why everyone's logs have timing corrections. Depending on how sensitive your ECU is to pulling timing it may be safer to run a little more boost and not tune at the edge of knock, especially on pump gas. But again for our cars the DMEs are very good at self correcting timing, even if your target is pretty aggressive for your boost and octane.

There's also a lot of other considerations to choosing the right balance of timing and boost, like how it affects EGTs, how good your IAT control is (high IATs and a lot of timing is a recipe for knock), etc. But in the basic sense you want to run as much timing as you safely can for your boost level to extract maximum power. When you see people get tuned on the dyno its fairly common for the tuner to keep adding timing until the car stops picking up power, then dial it back (a little or a lot depending on how much safety margin they want).
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