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      07-09-2019, 01:52 PM   #1
The Kurgan
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Fuel Optimization / Induction Service

Anybody have this done? What are your results?

Apparently, the service cleans the fuel injectors, throttle bodies, air intake, intake valves and ports; removes combustion chamber deposits and corrects the balance of fuel and air in your system. Increases fuel economy. Starts and idles smoother and runs quieter.

I noticed a slightly lumpy idle on a few occasions at startup and a slight reduction in fuel efficiency. At 147,000 km, I thought, "why not?"

Maybe its my imagination, but idle is unnoticeable now (smooth). I will see if my mileage has improved.
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      07-09-2019, 04:11 PM   #2
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The main gains would come from cleaning the intake valves, which get nasty with carbon deposits. Installing an oil catch can removes the main source of the carbon build up, oil from the crankcase via the PCV. A bottle of injector cleaner every few thousand miles keeps injectors clean.

Last edited by Billfitz; 07-09-2019 at 05:18 PM..
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      07-09-2019, 04:53 PM   #3
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Did this include a walnut shell blasting?

Seems the preferred way to clean the valves/ports in DI engines where there is no fuel to assist self cleaning.
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      07-09-2019, 06:17 PM   #4
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Did you ask exactly what they did? Did they open up your intake manifold and remove your injectors to clean them? Or did they just run a chemical fuel system cleaner and a spray intake valve cleaner (more likely)?

If you're happy with the results, that's good.
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      07-17-2019, 06:33 AM   #5
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They opened-up the intake manifold and ran some sort of mist through it... plus fuel treatment.
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      07-17-2019, 07:27 AM   #6
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Sounds like they did what you could have done yourself, with this:
https://www.crcindustries.com/produc...-oz-05319.html

and this:
https://www.chevronlubricants.com/en...m-cleaner.html

They also should have used this:
https://www.crcindustries.com/produc...-oz-05110.html
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      07-17-2019, 01:26 PM   #7
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I would think consistantly runing hight quality fuel with plenty of detergents would be just as effective and really prevent the need for one of these services.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billfitz View Post
The main gains would come from cleaning the intake valves, which get nasty with carbon deposits. Installing an oil catch can removes the main source of the carbon build up, oil from the crankcase via the PCV. A bottle of injector cleaner every few thousand miles keeps injectors clean.
Does this even happen with this service on a DI engine? If they put something into the fuel system it goes through the injectors which are below the valves in a direct injection engine and the cleaner never touches the valves themselves. It might clean out other parts of the system and the injectors, but wouldn't clean up the valves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
Did this include a walnut shell blasting?

Seems the preferred way to clean the valves/ports in DI engines where there is no fuel to assist self cleaning.
In the VW world, this was the only way to clean up the valves. A traditional fuel system cleaning had little/no effect for the reasons I mentioned above. There are some pictures of some pretty cruddy engines on the forums which cleaned up pretty nicely after getting blasted.
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      07-17-2019, 02:52 PM   #8
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Fuel does not pass through the intake valves on direct injection engines, so detergent in the fuel cannot clean the valves. Oil from the crankcase does make its way to the intake manifold and intake valves, via the PCV. That is the source of the carbon deposits that build up on them. Walnut blasting is not the only way to clean the intakes, go to the link I posted, watch the video. It's best to clean the valves yearly, so the carbon build up doesn't get severe enough that walnut blasting is necessary. It's even better to install an oil catch can, which prevents oil from getting to the manifold in the first place.
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      07-19-2019, 01:42 PM   #9
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Weird all-cylinder misfire fault codes all cleared and after a good highway run in Sport mode, nothing has resurfaced. While at the dealer, I had them do the thermostat, as it gave an intermittent fault, and a coolant flush. I was assured that doing the induction service every 40 or 50km is a good preventative measure to avoid the possibility of the need for walnut blasting.
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      07-19-2019, 03:28 PM   #10
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It's not weird at all, the valve cleaner got flushed out of the system and now it's running normally. I bet they didn't do a proper highway run as they should have and that's why you had the problem. I hope you didn't pay too much, what they did cost maybe $15 in materials and a half hour of labor. The only tool required is one of these:
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      07-19-2019, 11:25 PM   #11
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Running pure E85 will also take care of carbon deposits.
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      07-20-2019, 12:41 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
Running pure E85 will also take care of carbon deposits.
You can run pure E85 through our cars?
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      07-20-2019, 12:57 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F30ZHP View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
Running pure E85 will also take care of carbon deposits.
You can run pure E85 through our cars?
Not without the proper modifications and tune, but running it takes care of any carbon deposits - yet another benefit.
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      07-20-2019, 08:48 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F30ZHP View Post
You can run pure E85 through our cars?
Whether you can or not has no bearing on carbon deposits on the intake valves. Read Post #8.
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      07-20-2019, 09:08 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billfitz View Post
Fuel does not pass through the intake valves on direct injection engines, so detergent in the fuel cannot clean the valves. Oil from the crankcase does make its way to the intake manifold and intake valves, via the PCV. That is the source of the carbon deposits that build up on them. Walnut blasting is not the only way to clean the intakes, go to the link I posted, watch the video. It's best to clean the valves yearly, so the carbon build up doesn't get severe enough that walnut blasting is necessary. It's even better to install an oil catch can, which prevents oil from getting to the manifold in the first place.

^^ This... direct injection engines lack the benefit of being 'self cleaning' with regards to valves. It's also good to make sure you keep the injectors clean and working well, I would say put a bottle of injector cleaner in your tank every few months or so, as these are very expensive to replace in these engines.
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      07-20-2019, 10:02 AM   #16
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The jury is out on the worth of injector cleaner, as all but third world gas has detergent in it anyway. I put in a bottle of Techron every six months because it's inexpensive and can't hurt, even though it may not help. Same reason I take an aspirin every day.
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      07-20-2019, 10:08 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
Not without the proper modifications and tune, but running it takes care of any carbon deposits - yet another benefit.
I also heard on these boards that you can do an 80% 91 octane and 20% E85 fill to get it to 93 octane without a tune.
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      07-20-2019, 10:32 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billfitz View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by F30ZHP View Post
You can run pure E85 through our cars?
Whether you can or not has no bearing on carbon deposits on the intake valves. Read Post #8.
Clearly you don't know that running 100% E85 in your car full time will take care of any built up carbon deposits and keep any future buildup from occurring.

Quote:
Originally Posted by F30ZHP View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
Not without the proper modifications and tune, but running it takes care of any carbon deposits - yet another benefit.
I also heard on these boards that you can do an 80% 91 octane and 20% E85 fill to get it to 93 octane without a tune.
That will not accomplish cleaning the built up carbon deposits.
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      07-20-2019, 12:07 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Kurgan View Post
I was assured that doing the induction service every 40 or 50km is a good preventative measure to avoid the possibility of the need for walnut blasting.
That is a 100% snake oil comment to liquidate you of hard earned cash. Those types of treatments (SeaFoam falls in there) work at removing some of the carbon deposits in the cylinder and on exhaust valves due to steam.

Walnut blasting removes carbon on the intake valves which is a result of oil vapor being sucked back into the intake as part of the PVC system.

Only true method of "preventive maintenance" to reduce the need for walnut blasting is the oil catch can.

It wouldn't surprise me of the bulk of the benefits you are experiencing was from the thermostat swap. Engine running at higher temps (specially if you have carbon build up) will introduce other negative artifacts (misfires, etc).
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      07-20-2019, 12:10 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
Clearly you don't know that running 100% E85 in your car full time will take care of any built up carbon deposits and keep any future buildup from occurring.


That will not accomplish cleaning the built up carbon deposits.
Well, no....But my car is brand new so I'm not really worried about carbon deposits.
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      07-20-2019, 12:18 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F30ZHP View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
Not without the proper modifications and tune, but running it takes care of any carbon deposits - yet another benefit.
I also heard on these boards that you can do an 80% 91 octane and 20% E85 fill to get it to 93 octane without a tune.
That would give you E25 at 93.8 Octane
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      07-20-2019, 12:42 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wires View Post
That is a 100% snake oil comment to liquidate you of hard earned cash. Those types of treatments (SeaFoam falls in there) work at removing some of the carbon deposits in the cylinder and on exhaust valves due to steam.
CRC does not work with steam. Its active ingredient is the same as that of injector cleaner, at a much higher concentration. I have an aversion to accepting any advertising claims at face value, so before laying out my $11.95 for a can I took the time to look at this:
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forum...-after-results

I suggest you cut to the chase and go to the 9:30 time mark. By no means does the CRC or Seafoam do as good a job as walnut blasting, but they do work. They'd probably work a lot better on engines that hadn't been neglected as long as the ones in the video were to get that much build up.
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