[Colmsport]

Morning Chaps,

I've never subscribed to the 2 year service intervals on my cars & prefer to at least have an annual oil change. I've just bought a 65 plate 320d M Sport with 7k miles on it & have been thinking of putting it in for an oil change in between services.

My first service is due next July, in 12k miles according to the on board computer.

Chances are I'll keep this car for a few years.

What do people think? Is it common place to conduct an intermediate oil change?

Cheers,
Col

[snipnoob86]

I do this, every 9k she gets new oil. oil is good these days so their I'm sure there is no real need to do it but it doesn't cost a lot and helps me sleep better:

[robbiep]

I do it. My background is in oil longevity (I used to work for one of the majors, at a large facility in Runcorn), so I know just how knackered oil is after 15-18k miles.
It all depends on how long you intend to keep the car. If, like lots on here you're on a PCP or intend to get rid after 2-3 years, then it doesn't matter. When something goes wrong, it'll be someone else's problem. If, on the other hand, you like to keep your cars for a long time, then doing additional oil changes makes a lot of sense.
My on-board systems seem to go with an oil change every 18k miles. So I get an intermediate done at the 9k point, but tell the dealership NOT to reset the service indicator at those changes, but I DO want them to update the onboard service record. As a guide, my local dealership charges £160 for oil and filter change.

Oil changes are cheap. Engines are expensive.

[Jaghave]

I personally change it at 7500 and do a tire rotation at the same time.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by robbiep

My on-board systems seem to go with an oil change every 18k miles. So I get an intermediate done at the 9k point, but tell the dealership NOT to reset the service indicator at those changes...

...

Oil changes are cheap. Engines are expensive.

That's what I've done, even with a service package.

Part of my reasoning is the type of use, low annual mileage and short trips of ~25 miles a time from cold. Regular longer trips, I wouldn't be so concerned.

The other reason, BMW engines are not 100% reliable for timing chain and guide issues. Opinion is divided on whether long oil service intervals are partly to blame, better safe than sorry if we intend to run the car long term.

[planemad]

I'm going to do an oil change at 12 months will I should be on approx 8k.

I will just use a BMW specialist and supply them the parts and not change the computer.

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

That's what I've done, even with a service package.

Part of my reasoning is the type of use, low annual mileage and short trips of ~25 miles a time from cold. Regular longer trips, I wouldn't be so concerned.

The other reason, BMW engines are not 100% reliable for timing chain and guide issues. Opinion is divided on whether long oil service intervals are partly to blame, better safe than sorry if we intend to run the car long term.

Checking my understanding...so, if the car has a service package, you pay for the intermediate oil changes and the package covers the other services that are scheduled by the service indicator? Furthermore, by doing the intermediate oil change, it doesn't cause the 'standard' interval to lengthen at all.

I might consider doing the same, as my car will probably be kept for a few years and will do a lot of very short runs <10 miles mixed with 100 mile runs.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

Checking my understanding...so, if the car has a service package, you pay for the intermediate oil changes and the package covers the other services that are scheduled by the service indicator? Furthermore, by doing the intermediate oil change, it doesn't cause the 'standard' interval to lengthen at all.

I might consider doing the same, as my car will probably be kept for a few years and will do a lot of very short runs <10 miles mixed with 100 mile runs.

Yes, I paid for the interim oil service. My dealer is pretty good and gave me what I view as a good price. With instruction not to update the CBS.

I believe the interim oil service has delayed the mileage countdown a small amount, maybe a 1,000 miles or so. But won't affect the next oil service as it will be timed out, rather than a mileage issue.

[planemad]

Wish BMW dealers would start using Millers Oils, they are great oils.

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Yes, I paid for the interim oil service. My dealer is pretty good and gave me what I view as a good price. With instruction not to update the CBS.

I believe the interim oil service has delayed the mileage countdown a small amount, maybe a 1,000 miles or so. But won't affect the next oil service as it will be timed out, rather than a mileage issue.

Thanks Pete, just what I needed to know.

I think I will do just the same.

My 320D had the timing chain replaced under warranty at 95k miles and, whilst I know the N47 has a flaw in that respect, I do wonder if it would have been fine without having gone 22k between oil changes.

[Daftasabrush]

Originally Posted by robbiep

My on-board systems seem to go with an oil change every 18k miles. So I get an intermediate done at the 9k point, but tell the dealership NOT to reset the service indicator at those changes, but I DO want them to update the onboard service record.

I tried the same, they said they couldn't update the service record without resetting the counters. They apparently did the change (and billed me for it) but there's nothing on my idrive to tell me such, I just have a piece of paper.

[Robin128]

Oil and filter changed at 2,250m DIY...not running a new car for 18,000m on original oil...no chance. I'll do another around 7,250m. That will take me close to the first dealer service to maintain warranty... 2 years.

6 litres of Fuchs GT1 0w-20 ACEA A1/B1 Longlife -14FE+ and a genuine BMW filter 11 42 8 583 898 from stealers.

[Mr NSB]

I don't subscribe to these mid service oil changes. If they were needed the manufacturer wouldn't hesitate to recommend them and I'm sure the dealer would appreciate the additional income. I wonder if premature engine wear is happening because the engine will be run without oil pressure for a few seconds at each change.

This weekend I have traded my 130k 320d which has suffered no engine problems and in fact hasn't even used any oil at all. My service intervals were al 19 or 20k.

[Flyboy777]

0W-20 oil?
Is that an approved grade now as not seen that used for a BMW before?

[robbiep]

Originally Posted by Daftasabrush

I tried the same, they said they couldn't update the service record without resetting the counters. They apparently did the change (and billed me for it) but there's nothing on my idrive to tell me such, I just have a piece of paper.

That's an absolute pile of crap. Pure laziness on the part of someone on the service desk.

[robbiep]

Originally Posted by Mr NSB

I don't subscribe to these mid service oil changes. If they were needed the manufacturer wouldn't hesitate to recommend them and I'm sure the dealer would appreciate the additional income. I wonder if premature engine wear is happening because the engine will be run without oil pressure for a few seconds at each change.

This weekend I have traded my 130k 320d which has suffered no engine problems and in fact hasn't even used any oil at all. My service intervals were al 19 or 20k.

You're free not to subscribe to it. However, as I previously said, I used to work for one of the majors in oil testing and development. I know a little bit about oils, and what happens to them in-service. I now work for one of the suppliers to the oil industry, working on sterile solutions to oil well microbiological contaminants (believe me, it's a boring field - no pun intended)

15-18k mile oil is pretty well knackered. Lubricating properties largely gone. Mostly broken down on a molecular level. Acidic contaminant neutralisers used up.

Quite simply, the fleet market wanted longer service intervals for cheaper lease costs. They generally get rid of their cars at 3 yrs old. The balance point in terms of risk of failure / cost of servicing has been calculated out.

Most of those reported N47 timing chain problems are down to a lack of lubrication, in one way or another.
Take out the ones where negligent owners have let the oil level drop, and what you find are worn out oils failing to lubricate the timing chain, and/or the oil spray nozzles to the timing chain becoming blocked by suspended general crud, due to the suspension agents in the oils being used up. In either type of case, the chain isn't getting lubricated, and stretches, jumps or snaps.

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by robbiep

You're free not to subscribe to it. However, as I previously said, I used to work for one of the majors in oil testing and development. I know a little bit about oils, and what happens to them in-service. I now work for one of the suppliers to the oil industry, working on sterile solutions to oil well microbiological contaminants (believe me, it's a boring field - no pun intended)

15-18k mile oil is pretty well knackered. Lubricating properties largely gone. Mostly broken down on a molecular level. Acidic contaminant neutralisers used up.

Quite simply, the fleet market wanted longer service intervals for cheaper lease costs. They generally get rid of their cars at 3 yrs old. The balance point in terms of risk of failure / cost of servicing has been calculated out.

Most of those reported N47 timing chain problems are down to a lack of lubrication, in one way or another.
Take out the ones where negligent owners have let the oil level drop, and what you find are worn out oils failing to lubricate the timing chain, and/or the oil spray nozzles to the timing chain becoming blocked by suspended general crud, due to the suspension agents in the oils being used up. In either type of case, the chain isn't getting lubricated, and stretches, jumps or snaps.

Appreciate the insight that you are providing Robbiep.

When I bought my E90 320D, I was completely unconvinced by the long service intervals, but let them run as I always intended extending the warranty (I was aware of the N47 timing chain problem).

The 'plan' worked as the dealer picked up on the timing chain rattling during a routine visit (I hadn't noticed at that point and perhaps the car could have carried on for some time without popping).

As you have highlighted, it's not necessarily low oil levels that cause a problem. I always kept mine topped up and it used very little between services - I think I bought 2 or 3 litres over the years. So it was full - but only with life-expired oil for perhaps 50% of the time

[moonshine]

Originally Posted by robbiep

That's an absolute pile of crap. Pure laziness on the part of someone on the service desk.

+1
my independent carried out an interim oil change for me and updated the online bmw service record for me and left the counters untouched.

the car didn't show the extra oil service on the car e-service log until I had the dealer service carried out at 17k miles tho

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Mr NSB

I don't subscribe to these mid service oil changes. If they were needed the manufacturer wouldn't hesitate to recommend them and I'm sure the dealer would appreciate the additional income. I wonder if premature engine wear is happening because the engine will be run without oil pressure for a few seconds at each change.

This weekend I have traded my 130k 320d which has suffered no engine problems and in fact hasn't even used any oil at all. My service intervals were al 19 or 20k.

130k miles, looks like a lot of long trips and hot use, better than the average user with lots of short trips. By short trips, I mean not a lot of trips with plenty of heat soak.

Use does make a lot of difference and diesel engines with DPF regeneration can add to the problem with oil dilution.

The comment that you say it never used oil, is an unknown, if you don't have the old oil analysed. Engine can use oil and still not drop on the dipstick. Oil dilution with diesel fuel, is masking oil consumption in some diesel engines. Users being oblivious to what's going on inside the engine.

Even the latest petrol DI engines are putting more carbon into the oil, it's one reason I've opted for the interim change in my car, the oil is going black, not what we'd see in older petrol engines in good condition, at the same oil service mileage.

I fully understand the manufacturer's stance, but their hand is often forced by outside demands, like the fleet users. Even so, in the US market BMW have pulled back on oil service intervals, even back to 1-year maximum. I think there would be outrage in the UK, if we reverted back to having oil changes at a maximum of one year, regardless of mileage.

[MattOz]

I always do an intermediate oil change. Usually at 7-10k intervals. Never leave it in there for 18-20k. My current 335i is coming up for 1200 miles from new, so I'll drop the oil and change the filter. I do that with all new cars, whether bought outright, or on PCP or whatever. Just a peace of mind thing.

[KS_340i]

i'm planning to do this on mine. Will likely throw it at dealer to do it but is it easy to DIY...done lots of changes on old cars, but wonder what access is like to sump and filter?