[agentorange]

Sure is was better in the 50s and 60s. The Crays, Richardsons and Mad Frankie kept it all in order. Just ask anybody in Met on their payroll back then.

Joking aside, the cost of housing was generally less compared with wages back then. Of course, most affordable cars were less than inspired and were probably riddled with tin worm inside five years unless you were extremely diligent with the Waxoyl.

Another ex-pat has just returned from a two week visit to the UK. He thought it was in far better shape than any of the recent UK media reports would have you believe. Think on that for a minute.

He did comment that the average British driver appears to have been largely neutered by speed traps and the price of fuel. He said that most people don't accelerate and seem happy to putter along a two-lane A or B road at 45 mph. I was immediately reminded of the 1980's "British Standard 42 mph driver", who did 42 regardless of weather, road layout, weather or speed limit. They were everywhere like cockroaches. His acceleration comment was telling, because even by my captain slow standards, he rarely gives it much. Is the average UK car a sloth on Valium these days?

[Ennoch]

You do get a lot of slow drivers but you've also got busier roads, and people don't like to overtake so you end up with a train of cars. If you're doing 70mph and someone's doing 40mph then you're always going to catch them up pretty easily, whereas if someone's doing 60mph on an NSL single carriageway it'll take you a lot longer, if at all. Why don't people like to overtake in those queues though? I'm not sure it's solely down to the 'speed kills' mantra that's been chanted for most of the last 20 years. I do think that perhaps cars are now so safe and insulated/isolated that the people who like to drive quickly go faster because they feel totally protected (it's also easier with more powerful engines and significantly more grip), but on the flip side now most people who don't drive quickly think that doing anything in a car is risky. The irony is that these people also don't think driving's a skill to be practiced but either a right or a necessity so end up being pretty unobservant (going back to the feeling of being coccooned in a safe environment), and overtake at 60mph rather than accelerate to a higher speed to ensure you're not exposed on the 'wrong' side of the road for longer than necessary.

However, I'm making these observations from Scotland where, with the exception of the A9 and some other areas like Ayrshire, we don't have many average speed cameras, or even Gatsos any more, and we have less traffic. The average standard of driving is just as shite though.

[Grant_7]

Originally Posted by agentorange

Another ex-pat has just returned from a two week visit to the UK. He thought it was in far better shape than any of the recent UK media reports would have you believe. Think on that for a minute.

That's an interesting perception. My Sister lives in Australia, and there is some thought to her moving back to the UK, but her view is that with COVID and Brexit the place is a total disaster zone and to be avoided, courtesy of the international media.

Originally Posted by agentorange

Sure is was better in the 50s and 60s. The He did comment that the average British driver appears to have been largely neutered by speed traps and the price of fuel. He said that most people don't accelerate and seem happy to putter along a two-lane A or B road at 45 mph. I was immediately reminded of the 1980's "British Standard 42 mph driver", who did 42 regardless of weather, road layout, weather or speed limit. They were everywhere like cockroaches. His acceleration comment was telling, because even by my captain slow standards, he rarely gives it much. Is the average UK car a sloth on Valium these days?

These same 45mph everywhere types, are those that fly up behind you in a 30mph limit and glue themselves to your bumper. Then, if you're behind one, and dare to overtake on a NSL section of road, they'll flash and gesticulate at you like you're just taken a dump on their doorstep. Utter loons.

We need an updated driving test, with it being mandatory to re-take every 10 years, and probably every 5 after a certain age.

[1 AKY]

The problem is that learners are taught how to pass the test, rather than actually taught how to drive. Driving requires common-sense, which as the saying goes, "is unfortunately not that common".

Originally Posted by Grant_7

We need an updated driving test, with it being mandatory to re-take every 10 years, and probably every 5 after a certain age.

Good luck with that. From what I've heard, earliest test dates currently available round my neck of the woods is Mar2022.

[Ennoch]

Going back to the point of the OP, while there are many things I would choose to go back to should I have the ability, I know that it is also very much a case of rose tinted specs being firmly attached. Remember the Baz Luhrmann song, Sunscreen?

Even during Covid people said 'oh, it's like the Blitz spirit, everyone's coming together', conveniently forgetting that during the blitz people were having their houses burgled by thieves either after they'd been bombed, or while they were hiding down in the air raid shelters. They forget there were corruption scandals before but where before it would be a headline one day and then gone the next, it is now online and social media so the headline lives forever through re-shares and a rabid clamouring for 'justice' or 'something needs to change' etc.

Was it better in the past? No, I don't think it was, but there are elements which were because humans were behaving closer to the way in which we have evolved to be. There was no instant access to a world of information (instead you had to remember stuff, and have self restraint), there was less sitting down (but instead there were more manual jobs which were more dangerous), there was less gluttony (but instead there was greater malnourishment across the poor), there were less recreational drugs, there was less processed shite food and people I think had closer family ties. But were they 'better' ties? In the past we had less freedom to travel, and people generally stayed closer to home so had closer contact to their local area and family. For me the appeal is that the world was essentially a bigger place in the past. There were fewer people and it was harder to explore, there was more 'unknown'. Now any sodding instagrammer can basically go and do whatever they want at the price of a flight and spaff it across the internet. That cheapens the sense of adventure because everyone goes to places they've already seen. I am definitely an analogue person in a digital age but I'm still not sure I'd be choosing to go back to a time in the past! I still love going somewhere having only looked at a paper map to work out what might be somewhere. Despite using computers and phones constantly, I hate social media, I hate the superficial connection we end up having with so many people at the expense of something deeper and more meaningful in the flesh. Social media also opens us up to comparing ourselves to many billion others, rather than just your mate round the corner. I hate the commercial wastage in a world where we're pushed to buy everything new every year because if we don't we'll be missing out, or shamed by the people around us for having last year's fashion etc etc. And of course the more we make life easy for people (and let's not forget, life is easy in this country relative to the past, even if you're in poverty), the more people expect life to be made easy for them so the laziness and entitlement escalates ever faster. Plastic wrapped, pre-peeled orange segments in supermarkets springs to mind as a standout example of this but there are so many others.

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by 1 AKY

The problem is that learners are taught how to pass the test, rather than actually taught how to drive.

To a large extent I think that's always been the case but one of the things that has changed in the time I've been driving is the attitude to speed and speed limits.

When I was learning I can remember my instructor telling me I needed to keep somewhere near the speed limit unless traffic and/or weather conditions dictated otherwise; if I didn't it could well be viewed as not making proper progress and result in a black mark - or possibly even a fail - in my driving test. Nowadays, though, the attitude seems to be very much "they're limits not targets" with the net result being it's become acceptable - and even encouraged - to dawdle even when there's no reason to do so. When you combine that with a reluctance to overtake - and as has been said often an adverse reaction towards those who try to do so - it's not surprising queues of relatively slow moving traffic often form.

Of course slow drivers are nothing new - I can remember my dad muttering about them 50 years ago. Difference is, back then the lower volume of traffic made it easier to overtake plus when you got to a straight piece of road where overtaking was safe you didn't need to worry about a strategically placed camera van to nick you if you strayed over the limit.

All of which has me thinking driving was almost certainly more fun back in the 50's and 60's even though in objective terms the cars weren't as good!

[JustChris]

financial advice?








To be clear this is just a little joke and not what I think was better in the middle of the century

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by JustChris

financial advice?








To be clear this is just a little joke and not what I think was better in the middle of the century

You didnt need any, you had one mortgage that you stuck with and paid off over the years and you had a job for life and one work pension so that was easier too....

[allachie9]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

You didnt need any, you had one mortgage that you stuck with and paid off over the years and you had a job for life and one work pension so that was easier too....

Exactly this.
The repayments on my first mortgage, when we married in 1967 were . . . £14.2s.17d per month, with the Leeds Permanent Building Society. I was only granted the mortgage after an interview with the branch manager and providing proof of earnings via my weekly payslips. At the time I was earning around £1100 pa.

Were things better in the 50s and 60s ?
Well, the music certainly was.
60s music . . . still the best.

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by allachie9

Exactly this.
The repayments on my first mortgage, when we married in 1967 were . . . £14.2s.17d per month, with the Leeds Permanent Building Society. I was only granted the mortgage after an interview with the branch manager and providing proof of earnings via my weekly payslips. At the time I was earning around £1100 pa.

Were things better in the 50s and 60s ?
Well, the music certainly was.
60s music . . . still the best.

allachie9 you seem have lent on your keyboard and typed too many digits? ..... £14.2s.17d

[allachie9]

Originally Posted by JustChris

allachie9 you seem have lent on your keyboard and typed too many digits? ..... £14.2s.17d

Oops, sorry, well spotted.
£14.2s.7d.

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by allachie9

Oops, sorry, well spotted.
£14.2s.7d.

Still not sure what's going on but accepting it

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by JustChris

Still not sure what's going on but accepting it

you are just showing off that you are too young to remember decimalisation (1969 I believe)

I dont see what was wrong with the shillings and old pence randomness of 240 units to a pound or something...

But decimalisation meant prices went up, my mum complained about it for years.The Brexit of its day!

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by JNW1

All of which has me thinking driving was almost certainly more fun back in the 50's and 60's even though in objective terms the cars weren't as good!

Definitely more fun when I was first driving in the 1960's. The fact single carriageways were 70mph (unless restricted), was a far better way of driving and making decent progress AND keeping a low powered car on song.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

You didnt need any, you had one mortgage that you stuck with and paid off over the years and you had a job for life and one work pension so that was easier too....

Also remember when you wanted a new (or new to you) car with a loan, the Bank Manager had the last say.

You had an appointment, he reviewed your account, asked questions and HE decided whether you could afford a loan and the repayments. His decision was final...

[TouringPleb]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Also remember when you wanted a new (or new to you) car with a loan, the Bank Manager had the last say.

You had an appointment, he reviewed your account, asked questions and HE decided whether you could afford a loan and the repayments. His decision was final...

I remember being at uni in the early 90s and trying to get my student overdraft extended. (I think it was about 500 quid at the time!).

I had to see the branch manager who went through 3 months of statements with a red pen telling me where I was wasting money and could make savings. He made me feel I was about 8 years old.

To be honest, most of my statements were Andy's Records, HMV or the SU Bar!

[MrManor]

Originally Posted by TouringPleb

I remember being at uni in the early 90s and trying to get my student overdraft extended. (I think it was about 500 quid at the time!).

I had to see the branch manager who went through 3 months of statements with a red pen telling me where I was wasting money and could make savings. He made me feel I was about 8 years old.

To be honest, most of my statements were Andy's Records, HMV or the SU Bar!

Andy’ Records! Blast from the past!

[allachie9]

Originally Posted by JustChris

Still not sure what's going on but accepting it

OK, let's spell it out for you youngsters.

14 pounds, 2 shillings and 7 pence. (approx £14.13).
Is that better ?

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by allachie9

OK, let's spell it out for you youngsters.

14 pounds, 2 shillings and 7 pence. (approx £14.13).
Is that better ?

Hmm, yes, no maybe. What is 10% of that value?

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by JustChris

Hmm, yes, no maybe. What is 10% of that value?

Quick calc' is £1 8s 3d (forget the farthing).

[allachie9]

Originally Posted by JustChris

Hmm, yes, no maybe. What is 10% of that value?

Erm : £1 8s 3d

Oops, Pete beat me to it.

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by allachie9

Erm : £1 8s 3d

Oops, Pete beat me to it.

Reminds me of my first job where I had a sheet of paper converting £sd to £p (certificates in old values, computer system in decimal). Great fun when the late Lt.Col. Farquhar had an estate with dozens of certificates in old money.