F30POST
F30POST
2012-2015 BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > Technical Forums > xDrive All-Wheel Drive Discussions > XDelete- the answer to XDrive?
proTUNING Freaks
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      02-05-2020, 08:33 AM   #375
waxwing_f31
BMW Fan
waxwing_f31's Avatar
United_States
2
Rep
11
Posts

Drives: BMW 328i xdrive MSport Wagon
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Virginia

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2014 BMW 328xi  [0.00]
How many more mpg are you guys seeing with xDelete turned on (rwd mode)? Especially on the F3x series.
Appreciate 1
      02-05-2020, 08:41 AM   #376
floridaorange
Lieutenant Colonel
floridaorange's Avatar
United_States
1164
Rep
1,611
Posts

Drives: 2013 bmw 320i xdrive
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: orlando, fl

iTrader: (1)

When I was using it - it was significant - my guess mileage shot way up - it was staggering to me.
__________________
Stage 2 BM3
Appreciate 0
      02-05-2020, 08:39 PM   #377
mcintoshf30
Banned
United_States
169
Rep
293
Posts

Drives: 2014 F30 335xi
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Pennsylvania

iTrader: (0)

I've been running xDelete for almost 6 months straight now; even through PA's "winter". Definitely noticed that my tank of gas lasts longer than with xDrive on. Unless you've never driven a RWD car, pretty much most BMW's lol, you don't need to worry about being in RWD, it's just a different mind sight of driving you have to do. LSD just got installed so gonna stay RWD for a bit longer but honestly really curious to see how this car handles when pushed hard with xdrive on with limited slip
Appreciate 0
      02-06-2020, 06:54 AM   #378
SteelBlue46
Private First Class
United_States
45
Rep
104
Posts

Drives: Alpine White '13 335i XDrive
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Pennsylvania

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcintoshf30 View Post
I've been running xDelete for almost 6 months straight now; even through PA's "winter". Definitely noticed that my tank of gas lasts longer than with xDrive on. Unless you've never driven a RWD car, pretty much most BMW's lol, you don't need to worry about being in RWD, it's just a different mind sight of driving you have to do. LSD just got installed so gonna stay RWD for a bit longer but honestly really curious to see how this car handles when pushed hard with xdrive on with limited slip
Did you go with the M performance lsd? curious to hear how the car feels in RWD with a real lsd installed! Also I can agree our winter this year has been pretty lame! lol
Appreciate 0
      02-06-2020, 08:35 AM   #379
northern.340i
New Member
Canada
5
Rep
24
Posts

Drives: BMW 340i
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

I am shopping around for an obd2 adapter to work with xdelete and I am having some issues deciding the best to buy. I am from Canada.

I could buy the wired obd2 adapter and the iPhone adapter for about 60$ from Amazon or the MHD Tuning Wireless obd2 for about 120$ from Burger Tuning.

For the wireless adapters, is the MHD the only one that works with xdelete or can I use any other one?
Appreciate 0
      02-06-2020, 09:50 AM   #380
floridaorange
Lieutenant Colonel
floridaorange's Avatar
United_States
1164
Rep
1,611
Posts

Drives: 2013 bmw 320i xdrive
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: orlando, fl

iTrader: (1)

I have an iphone adapter and obd cable that connects to it I can send you. I don't have the car any more so parting out everything.
__________________
Stage 2 BM3
Appreciate 0
      02-06-2020, 06:30 PM   #381
mcintoshf30
Banned
United_States
169
Rep
293
Posts

Drives: 2014 F30 335xi
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Pennsylvania

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelBlue46 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcintoshf30 View Post
I've been running xDelete for almost 6 months straight now; even through PA's "winter". Definitely noticed that my tank of gas lasts longer than with xDrive on. Unless you've never driven a RWD car, pretty much most BMW's lol, you don't need to worry about being in RWD, it's just a different mind sight of driving you have to do. LSD just got installed so gonna stay RWD for a bit longer but honestly really curious to see how this car handles when pushed hard with xdrive on with limited slip
Did you go with the M performance lsd? curious to hear how the car feels in RWD with a real lsd installed! Also I can agree our winter this year has been pretty lame! lol
Yes M performance! I bit the bullet when I came across one for a "decent" price (wish I wouldn't know ECS was selling them for 500 a month after I bought my car..) I haven't pushed it too hard but it's noticeably different and puts all the power down; truly transforms how the car feels. Really need to push it to its limits though
Appreciate 0
      03-09-2020, 07:05 AM   #382
chowser51
Major
chowser51's Avatar
United_States
758
Rep
1,498
Posts

Drives: 18 F33 430ix B46 BM3s1-93
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Cleveland, OH

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
I have an obd2 to ethernet cable that i used with bootmod3. I bought a lightning to ethernet adapter to use with my iphone.

Hooked it up to the car and the xdelete app detected my car just fine.

Now to wait for a sale...lol
It’s still winter by me so I can wait. Should’ve jumped on it during Black Friday last year.
Appreciate 0
      03-10-2020, 06:12 AM   #383
Simon89
Private First Class
Simon89's Avatar
United Kingdom
32
Rep
174
Posts

Drives: F30 330D XDrive
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Yorkshire

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by chowser51 View Post
I have an obd2 to ethernet cable that i used with bootmod3. I bought a lightning to ethernet adapter to use with my iphone.

Hooked it up to the car and the xdelete app detected my car just fine.

Now to wait for a sale...lol
It’s still winter by me so I can wait. Should’ve jumped on it during Black Friday last year.
What price was it on sale at?
__________________
13' F30 330D XDrive
Appreciate 0
      03-10-2020, 03:16 PM   #384
chowser51
Major
chowser51's Avatar
United_States
758
Rep
1,498
Posts

Drives: 18 F33 430ix B46 BM3s1-93
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Cleveland, OH

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
I don't remember. I recall seeing it on sale but I bought bootmod3 on sale for black friday instead.
Appreciate 0
      04-18-2020, 03:24 PM   #385
LYTSOUT
Private
23
Rep
55
Posts

Drives: F30 N55 EWG xDrive ///M Sport
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Indianapolis, IN

iTrader: (0)

A few pages ago, there was lots of discussion about the AWD version that XDelete uses for when you revert back to AWD...specifically, the argument is that it's not the same as your OEM xDrive programming which could theoretically make it suboptimal in some way. Maybe it's too generic (for example 40% front, 60% rear) or maybe it's an OEM version pulled from a random test car several years ago when the app was being developed that may be different from your car (coupe vs cabrio, 4cyl vs 6cyl, AT vs MT, square vs staggered, etc).

While I get that this is theoretically concerning...has anyone had any real world performance issues when switching it back to AWD?? To put it a different way: is this just a mental exercise (albeit probably a good one to have), or has it panned out in any significant way to justify the concern?

I'm seriously considering getting XDelete, but this [probably insignificant] issue is weighing on my mind to a small degree. Everyone raves about the RWD performance so it's probably worth the improved/RWD performance 9 months/year to justify the very small risk of slightly decreased AWD performance 3 months/year. But if guys say the AWD performance is terrible (and I don't even know what that'd be...maybe it jerks or hesitates or doesn't have good traction, etc) then I may not get it and just live with xDrive all the time.
__________________
-PCA Instructor #201804533
-F30 N55 EWG xDrive ///M Sport, 6MT, BM3 Stg 1 93oct, B16 Damptronics (my daily)
-Porsche 997 Coupe (track car/wife's semi-daily)
-Mercedes ML550 (kid-hauler)
-Past: E90 N55 xDrive, 997S, E46 ///M3, 996 Turbo, E36 ///M Roadster - all 6MT
Appreciate 0
      04-18-2020, 03:37 PM   #386
Skyhigh
Major
Skyhigh's Avatar
515
Rep
1,435
Posts

Drives: BMW F36
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Europe

iTrader: (0)

Valid question, but remember that XDrive shines most when shit hits the fan. People keep arguing for years whether Quattro or XDrive is better. The answer is - depends entirely on the situation. Therefore I personally would not expect anyone to be able to tell a difference before and after XDelete, even if there was one. You'd need a direct side-to-side comparison to be able to categorically tell.

I am however still planning to challenge the developers to give me an answer about what XDrive I'd be getting post XDelete. This to me is worth more than users saying XDrive "feels" like before. Of course it would, even if suboptimal in certain scenarios, as there is no direct comparison.

If anyone does get an answer - please share.

Just something to consider.
__________________
"Large increases in cost with questionable increases in performance can be tolerated only in cars and women."
Appreciate 1
Kingpin4178.50

      04-21-2020, 09:03 AM   #387
RBT-Tuning
RBT-Tuning's Avatar
Austria
694
Rep
741
Posts

Drives: 335i F31 xDrive
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Austria

iTrader: (0)

Hi,

As there are a few questions, lets start with how xDelete works:

+ We flash the xDrive ECU (called VGSG or LMV) with an altered dataset, to keep the transfer case clutch open all the time (OFF) or operate differently than stock (Sport, Snow). This means, your front wheels won't be driven any more (OFF) or will get a different amount of torque (Snow, Sport).

+ xDelete can calibrate the xDrive to only transfer e certain amount of torque to the front axle (for example 100NM). If your engine does not deliver 100NM the front rear split is different, then when the engine delivers 600NM. So it is not a constant distribution between front and back (like 90:10 / rear:front), but a relative.

+ For the xDrive ON, we simply flash the most recent stock calibration back on the xDrive controller. So it is completely stock again in xDrive ON mode.

+ You loose nothing, your car is stock again, after either doing a "full stock flash" or flashing xDrive ON.

Last edited by RBT-Tuning; 04-21-2020 at 09:09 AM..
Appreciate 5
      04-21-2020, 09:06 AM   #388
Onizukachan
Great Teacher
Onizukachan's Avatar
United_States
101
Rep
298
Posts

Drives: E46/3 M56 & F31d
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: El Paso

iTrader: (0)

:thumbs:
__________________
‘15 F31d M-Sport with the usual mods:
B Pillar Ambient lighting, LCI AC control & ambient lighted panel + LCI anthracite trim & passenger vent,
F80 paddles + F80 extendable merino armrest + f80 trim cover w/ merino knee bolster, EU headlight switch.
Appreciate 0
      04-21-2020, 09:23 AM   #389
deviantspeed
poopycat
United_States
217
Rep
661
Posts

Drives: 2017 F31 330i
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: I live in a tent

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RBT-Tuning View Post
Hi,

As there are a few questions, lets start with how xDelete works:

+ We flash the xDrive ECU (called VGSG or LMV) with an altered dataset, to keep the transfer case clutch open all the time (OFF) or operate differently than stock (Sport, Snow). This means, your front wheels won't be driven any more (OFF) or will get a different amount of torque (Snow, Sport).

+ xDelete can calibrate the xDrive to only transfer e certain amount of torque to the front axle (for example 100NM). If your engine does not deliver 100NM the front rear split is different, then when the engine delivers 600NM. So it is not a constant distribution between front and back (like 90:10 / rear:front), but a relative.

+ For the xDrive ON, we simply flash the most recent stock calibration back on the xDrive controller. So it is completely stock again in xDrive ON mode.

+ You loose nothing, your car is stock again, after either doing a "full stock flash" or flashing xDrive ON.
So flashing back to stock, are you stating that there is absolutely NO way a dealer or BMW NA can detect this has been done?

ie, maybe a reflash counter, et al?
Appreciate 0
      04-21-2020, 09:24 AM   #390
deviantspeed
poopycat
United_States
217
Rep
661
Posts

Drives: 2017 F31 330i
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: I live in a tent

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyhigh View Post
Valid question, but remember that XDrive shines most when shit hits the fan. People keep arguing for years whether Quattro or XDrive is better. The answer is - depends entirely on the situation. Therefore I personally would not expect anyone to be able to tell a difference before and after XDelete, even if there was one. You'd need a direct side-to-side comparison to be able to categorically tell.

I am however still planning to challenge the developers to give me an answer about what XDrive I'd be getting post XDelete. This to me is worth more than users saying XDrive "feels" like before. Of course it would, even if suboptimal in certain scenarios, as there is no direct comparison.

If anyone does get an answer - please share.

Just something to consider.
Which quattro system? I think there's about 5 different ones out there now.

Just something to think about.
Appreciate 0
      04-21-2020, 09:42 AM   #391
RBT-Tuning
RBT-Tuning's Avatar
Austria
694
Rep
741
Posts

Drives: 335i F31 xDrive
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Austria

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by deviantspeed View Post
So flashing back to stock, are you stating that there is absolutely NO way a dealer or BMW NA can detect this has been done?

ie, maybe a reflash counter, et al?
Correct, with normal diagnostic tools that every BMW dealer has at his disposal, xDelete cannot be detected.
Appreciate 0
      04-21-2020, 09:47 AM   #392
deviantspeed
poopycat
United_States
217
Rep
661
Posts

Drives: 2017 F31 330i
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: I live in a tent

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RBT-Tuning View Post
Correct, with normal diagnostic tools that every BMW dealer has at his disposal, xDelete cannot be detected.
Good to know, thanks for the fast response!
Appreciate 0
      04-21-2020, 09:56 AM   #393
Skyhigh
Major
Skyhigh's Avatar
515
Rep
1,435
Posts

Drives: BMW F36
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Europe

iTrader: (0)

It is fantastic that there is now RBT representation here to answer some arising questions! Thank you for the clarifications. Please see some questions below:

Quote:
Originally Posted by RBT-Tuning View Post
Hi,

As there are a few questions, lets start with how xDelete works:

+ We flash the xDrive ECU (called VGSG or LMV) with an altered dataset, to keep the transfer case clutch open all the time (OFF) or operate differently than stock (Sport, Snow). This means, your front wheels won't be driven any more (OFF) or will get a different amount of torque (Snow, Sport).
Is the VGST the only controller xDelete "touches"?

Quote:
+ xDelete can calibrate the xDrive to only transfer e certain amount of torque to the front axle (for example 100NM). If your engine does not deliver 100NM the front rear split is different, then when the engine delivers 600NM. So it is not a constant distribution between front and back (like 90:10 / rear:front), but a relative.
Please elaborate on that. Under what circumstances does XDelete do that? Is that a separate mode? What is the advantage of this, noting that the stock split is also not constant but dependent on a number of factors.

Quote:
+ For the xDrive ON, we simply flash the most recent stock calibration back on the xDrive controller. So it is completely stock again in xDrive ON mode.
- What is the source for the "most recent stock calibration" and when is it acquired by XDelete? Also please define "calibration", I notice you use different terminology here from the first bullet point - "altered dataset" for 2WD and "stock calibration" for XDrive... please elaborate.
Does XDelete make a backup of the stock dataset before overwriting it and if not - why not?


Quote:
+ You loose nothing, your car is stock again, after either doing a "full stock flash" or flashing xDrive ON.
Since I have never used XDelete, please educate me/us - are those 2 different options ("full stock flash" vs. "flashing xDrive ON") and if yes what is the difference between the two?

Thank you again for providing clarity.
__________________
"Large increases in cost with questionable increases in performance can be tolerated only in cars and women."
Appreciate 2
      04-22-2020, 10:34 AM   #394
LYTSOUT
Private
23
Rep
55
Posts

Drives: F30 N55 EWG xDrive ///M Sport
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Indianapolis, IN

iTrader: (0)

Thanks to RBT for providing clarification. In addition to the relatively generic question I asked initially, I'm also interested in the more nuanced questions listed in the previous post.

In addition to those, I have a few additional questions:
-Do you plan to offer Sport/Snow/Custom for the F30 like you do for the E90?
-If so, why isn't it available now? Is it just a matter of time before that version is updated or some other reason?
-If not, why aren't you?

I really like the idea of something other than simply on/off so I'd be even more interested in XDelete than I already am if that functionality were available for the F30.

Thanks again for chiming in!
__________________
-PCA Instructor #201804533
-F30 N55 EWG xDrive ///M Sport, 6MT, BM3 Stg 1 93oct, B16 Damptronics (my daily)
-Porsche 997 Coupe (track car/wife's semi-daily)
-Mercedes ML550 (kid-hauler)
-Past: E90 N55 xDrive, 997S, E46 ///M3, 996 Turbo, E36 ///M Roadster - all 6MT
Appreciate 2
Skyhigh515.00
Sµpreme285.50

      04-22-2020, 12:16 PM   #395
RBT-Tuning
RBT-Tuning's Avatar
Austria
694
Rep
741
Posts

Drives: 335i F31 xDrive
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Austria

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by LYTSOUT View Post
Thanks to RBT for providing clarification. In addition to the relatively generic question I asked initially, I'm also interested in the more nuanced questions listed in the previous post.

In addition to those, I have a few additional questions:
-Do you plan to offer Sport/Snow/Custom for the F30 like you do for the E90?
-If so, why isn't it available now? Is it just a matter of time before that version is updated or some other reason?
-If not, why aren't you?

I really like the idea of something other than simply on/off so I'd be even more interested in XDelete than I already am if that functionality were available for the F30.

Thanks again for chiming in!
The F30 transfer case is considerably weaker compared to the older E-Series units. They just overheat very quickly and go to limp all the time. We do not offer that modes for F-Series, cause those units would be fried very quickly during drifting. The transfer case on F-Series is called "ATC35L" and "ATC45L. "L" stands for "Light" which pretty much describes it....
Appreciate 0
      04-22-2020, 03:34 PM   #396
chowser51
Major
chowser51's Avatar
United_States
758
Rep
1,498
Posts

Drives: 18 F33 430ix B46 BM3s1-93
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Cleveland, OH

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
Got tired of waiting for a sale lol
Just bought it and flashed it to my f33.
Flash went well. Took it to gas station to fuel up and immediately noticed a difference in the turns. Taking a nap before work now and will test it some more on the drive to work.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:59 PM.




f30post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST