[FastActionJax]

So starting out a little cliche, I've been driving manual transmission vehicles my entire life. Mainly because my mother and father always drove manual transmission vehicles so naturally I gravitated towards them and enjoy driving them much more than auto transmission cars. So when I set out to buy a f30 a few months ago obviously I had to hunt the 6mt. I found one and later realized that its been killing my hip, I was involved in a motorcycle accident in April and my shift leg took the brunt of the impact, the bike I was on totalled. Like anything else I recovered nicely and had no real issues but I didnt own a car at the time, I didnt realize how bad it actually messed me up till buying my 6mt f30. I believe it's due to the fact the clutch sticks up further than the brake and I'm fairly tall so I have to lift my entire leg everytime I shift, no matter how I adjust the seat. I havent had such an extreme leg lift in any of my other manual vehicles and I'd hate to have to get rid of the car due to my hip pain. any suggestions? ultimate clutch pedal? different clutch? any ideas? I'd truly be upset if I have to start driving autos because of some teenage girls great plan to text and drive and run me down.

[oranga]

Sorry to hear about your situation. I used to ride too and thankfully never had a major injury.

I know there is the clutch stop pad, but that reduces clutch travel at the end of the path, not the beginning.

I don't know if there's anything out there, but you might be able to use a similar concept as the above, but on the other side of the pedal so that the clutch pedal is resting in a lower position.

[FastActionJax]

Originally Posted by oranga

Sorry to hear about your situation. I used to ride too and thankfully never had a major injury.

I know there is the clutch stop pad, but that reduces clutch travel at the end of the path, not the beginning.

I don't know if there's anything out there, but you might be able to use a similar concept as the above, but on the other side of the pedal so that the clutch pedal is resting in a lower position.

Yeah I installed the BMS bump stop, definitely a better pedal feel but as you said doesnt help with leg lift. I cant believe how many option and gadgets these cars have but cant adjust the clutch :/ I may just have to suck it up and try the Ultimate clutch pedal, just sucks its pretty pricey.

[Wires]

That does suck. BMW (and Honda) have a really high engagement for the clutch. It's like you have to hover in mid-air to get a nice engagement.

I haven't heard anyone change this though.

[FastActionJax]

Originally Posted by Wires

That does suck. BMW (and Honda) have a really high engagement for the clutch. It's like you have to hover in mid-air to get a nice engagement.

I haven't heard anyone change this though.

Yeah of all manual cars I've owned, I like this clutch the least. Way too much Deadspace and awful placement. I just looked for the Ultimate Clutch pedal and I definitely understand why it's on backorder across the entire internet now, everywhere is out of stock.

[B58 parts]

I agree the pedal and catch point should be much lower. ISTA/D has a little tester diagnostic thing in there somewhere where it shows you when the clutch is 10% disengaged, and when it is 90% disengaged. As you press the pedal in a bar lights up when it hits the 10% point. There is almost 2" of useless travel at the top, and another 1" or so at the bottom. So, I suspect if you were to take that travel out at the top it wouldn't cause any harm. If your clutch was not fully on you'd probably know that right away .. just mat it in 4th gear on a hill.

Not having enough travel on the bottom end is more of a problem. I ran all the washers on the BMS stop for a day and got a huge grind as it wasn't letting it travel all the way off.

My WRX had a little screw on the top stopper you could adjust to knock the pedal down. I imagine you could wedge something in there to stop the pedal.

I've seen that aftermarket pedal as well, but for $300 I don't get it.... maybe though. I'd like to try it.

Someone in the glorious CDV delete thread was talking about removing a certain spring [1]. I haven't done this yet as hate working in that spot, but I think I would like to.

BTW if you haven't done the CDV delete yet, you're sleeping ... go take that thing out.

[1] https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...6&postcount=48

[FastActionJax]

Originally Posted by YuminNuman

I agree the pedal and catch point should be much lower. ISTA/D has a little tester diagnostic thing in there somewhere where it shows you when the clutch is 10% disengaged, and when it is 90% disengaged. As you press the pedal in a bar lights up when it hits the 10% point. There is almost 2" of useless travel at the top, and another 1" or so at the bottom. So, I suspect if you were to take that travel out at the top it wouldn't cause any harm. If your clutch was not fully on you'd probably know that right away .. just mat it in 4th gear on a hill.

Not having enough travel on the bottom end is more of a problem. I ran all the washers on the BMS stop for a day and got a huge grind as it wasn't letting it travel all the way off.

My WRX had a little screw on the top stopper you could adjust to knock the pedal down. I imagine you could wedge something in there to stop the pedal.

I've seen that aftermarket pedal as well, but for $300 I don't get it.... maybe though. I'd like to try it.

Someone in the glorious CDV delete thread was talking about removing a certain spring [1]. I haven't done this yet as hate working in that spot, but I think I would like to.

BTW if you haven't done the CDV delete yet, you're sleeping ... go take that thing out.

[1] https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...6&postcount=48

I havent had the time yet to do remove the CDV but I will absolutely be removing the spring TONIGHT! I now understand why I hate this clutch so much, they have distroyed the entire point of a manual transmission in the last 10 years. they are designing them with the wrong people in mind. I drive a manual because I want full control of my car, feel and motor. I definitely dont understand why anyone would design a clutch that is significantly higher than the brake with a false feel. i hate it and I honestly believe its the entire reason I'm having leg pain. I love my car, I hate my clutch. its a problem.

[B58 parts]

I was bored last night and decided to go tackle that spring.

It wasn't easy but wasn't terrible. Slide the seat all the way back, open the door all the way. Sit on the garage floor snugged up into the door gap. The clips took some effort, the bottom one I got a pick on each corner and spread it. The top one I couldn't do that and had to push it off hard with a pick in the gap in the back, a little harder to get to that one and its pin. Overall not too bad, but probably one of the worst areas to work on.

There is now some lateral play in the pedal side to side, I'm not stoked on that but I didn't notice it when driving. It would be nice to keep the pins and the rod pieces but not the tension of the spring. Unfortunately, I don't think that thing is ever going back in. And the spring served a function of containing the two rod pieces together .. I don't know how to solve that yet.

The first inch is now just dead slop. But after that it feels a little smoother, easier if anything. Seemed about the same, maybe a little easier to drive but nothing to write home about. I didn't not like it but couldn't tell that much of a difference. The CDV on the other hand was a kicker.

There's some concern about throwout bearing wear, but I couldn't find any long term reports that were negative, just a couple positive ones. As long as the pedal gets all the way up it's not a concern. The first inch is so dead I'm sure it could be somehow retained down a bit without any ill effects. I've hated how high I have to lift my foot as well..

[FastActionJax]

Originally Posted by YuminNuman

I was bored last night and decided to go tackle that spring.

It wasn't easy but wasn't terrible. Slide the seat all the way back, open the door all the way. Sit on the garage floor snugged up into the door gap. The clips took some effort, the bottom one I got a pick on each corner and spread it. The top one I couldn't do that and had to push it off hard with a pick in the gap in the back, a little harder to get to that one and its pin. Overall not too bad, but probably one of the worst areas to work on.

There is now some lateral play in the pedal side to side, I'm not stoked on that but I didn't notice it when driving. It would be nice to keep the pins and the rod pieces but not the tension of the spring. Unfortunately, I don't think that thing is ever going back in. And the spring served a function of containing the two rod pieces together .. I don't know how to solve that yet.

The first inch is now just dead slop. But after that it feels a little smoother, easier if anything. Seemed about the same, maybe a little easier to drive but nothing to write home about. I didn't not like it but couldn't tell that much of a difference. The CDV on the other hand was a kicker.

There's some concern about throwout bearing wear, but I couldn't find any long term reports that were negative, just a couple positive ones. As long as the pedal gets all the way up it's not a concern. The first inch is so dead I'm sure it could be somehow retained down a bit without any ill effects. I've hated how high I have to lift my foot as well..

That's funny Cause I did the Exact same thing last night! I agree it wasnt too easy but not terribly difficult either, I had some trouble getting the top pin out because of clearance but finally did. Also like you I didnt feel too much difference but it is smoother and it actually dropped my pedal probably 5mm. I'm going to do a full write-up on it cause I couldnt find an f30 write-up and it was a little different than the one I read. I took a bunch of photo's of the process. I didnt take the cdv out because when I got up there I noticed a small amount of fluid so I may have a small leak. So I'm just going to order a new slave and mod that one.

[Savageenterprise]

The clutch pedal being higher than the brake is definitely weird, not a fan of that. I wonder what they did that?

[FastActionJax]

Originally Posted by Savageenterprise

The clutch pedal being higher than the brake is definitely weird, not a fan of that. I wonder what they did that?

This makes me feel much better, the fact I'm not the only one that hates this! Seems a lot of people hate it.

[bimmer456]

If you put the seat back as far as possible and then lower it, it will go back a little further so that may help.

[Savageenterprise]

I already sit with the seat back in the furthest position since I’m 6ft 1. That still doesn’t change the pedal position tho

[FastActionJax]

Originally Posted by Savageenterprise

I already sit with the seat back in the furthest position since I’m 6ft 1. That still doesn’t change the pedal position tho

Yeah at least now that I've removed the spring and can actually feel the clutch I wont feel so bad about not contacting the floor everytime I shift, It was making me nervous before because the clutch felt so fake and I really couldnt tell when it was actually engaging and disengaging. I highly suggest removing it. didnt change the awful placement too much but definitely helps with clutch feel. So now I can move my seat back a bit.

[Savageenterprise]

Where’s the spring? Behind the pedal?

[FastActionJax]

Originally Posted by Savageenterprise

Where’s the spring? Behind the pedal?

Yes it's behind the pedal under the lower dash, it's not hard to do but it's a hard spot to work in. I'm going to do a full write up on it later tonight or tomorrow because I couldnt find one for the F3x chassis. all you need is a 10mm, a t30 and a pick.

[FastActionJax]

Originally Posted by Savageenterprise

Where’s the spring? Behind the pedal?

hey brother did the write-up here:
https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1542094

[Savageenterprise]

Originally Posted by FastActionJax

hey brother did the write-up here:
https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1542094

Nice, thanks bro. I’ll take a look at this

[XutvJet]

I do agree that it seems like BMW is intentionally trying to take the fun out of a manual by giving the F series chassis a crappy feeling clutch pedal with a terrible catch point.

I've owned my M235 6MT since new for over 2.5 years. Here's my take.

1) The clutch pedal is too damn light and has absolutely NO FEEL. I cannot feel the friction point in the pedal. Rather, I have to sense it by the motor's response as I release the clutch. The clutch pedal lightness is somewhat due to the dual clutch pedal spring setup attached to the clutch. I think some of the issue is also with the automatic adjusting clutch and dual mass flywheel. Everything in the drivetrain feels to flex around move a bit compared to a more typical manual drivetrain setup.

2) The clutch take up is too quick, inconsistent, somewhere in the middle of the pedal travel, and can literally move <--all thanks to the damn clutch delay valve (CDV) in the clutch slave cylinder.

3) The resting point of the clutch pedal is too high and sits nearly 1" above the brake pedal. Why BMW?

4) When driven in anger, the clutch pedal feels fine but that CDV certainly dumbs down how hard you can release the clutch. I have a hell of a time spinning the tires in 2nd on a 1-2 shift. Around town, the clutch can make you look like an amateur sometimes. In my nearly 30 years of driving, I've never driven a manual that requires so much concentration to leave the line and execute the 1-2 shift smoothly.


To remedy the clutch pedal issue, I made a 1/4" tall $0.25 clutch stop.
That helped with gauging take up. About 3 months ago I removed the larger clutch spring and left the smaller one in. It definitely firmed up the pedal a bit but didn't help with clutch feel so I reinstalled it last month. Word of warning for those removing the clutch pedal springs, you'll NEVER get the spring back in unless you disconnect the clutch pedal slave rod arm first. Once you do that, the spring removal/install is fairly easy. For those with backup cameras, you'll likely need to remove/disconnect the backup camera computer as it blocks your access to pop out the plastic retainer that holds the clutch pedal slave rod arm in the place.

The Ultimate Clutch Pedal (UCP) seemed to be the ticket to increase pedal firmness, add some feel, and put the pedal height where it belongs. I ordered the thing back in early July. It's STILL backordered EVERYWHERE. When you go on the Ultimate Clutch Pedal website, I get the sense that this company has gone under recently.

I will be buying an OEM clutch slave cylinder, drilling out the CDV, and installing the modded unit. I pray the lack of a CDV will improve the feel.

I believe many of the issues with the clutch feel and resting height can be fixed, but it will cost you $500+ to do it assuming you can by the UCP.

[B58 parts]

For the CDV you don't have to (shouldn't!) drill the metal piece out (as I did...) just remove the metal thing entirely and the little rubber stopper and bin the both of them.

With the CDV out and the pedal spring removed it really is much better. It's night and day from stock. I don't know why they made it that way, perhaps it is legitimate engineering and I've done harm to the longevity of the system, but I personally think it's a conspiracy to kill the MT. "We can't get rid of it yet, but lets make it really shitty to drive so nobody wants to buy it again in 3 years .. then we can get rid of it". And here we are, G20 with no MT. Which had to be partly due to everyone saying the MT on the F30 sucked. And it did suck .. from the factory, but with a couple changes there's actually a terrific gearbox there... it's a shame.

[FastActionJax]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

I do agree that it seems like BMW is intentionally trying to take the fun out of a manual by giving the F series chassis a crappy feeling clutch pedal with a terrible catch point.

I've owned my M235 6MT since new for over 2.5 years. Here's my take.

1) The clutch pedal is too damn light and has absolutely NO FEEL. I cannot feel the friction point in the pedal. Rather, I have to sense it by the motor's response as I release the clutch. The clutch pedal lightness is somewhat due to the dual clutch pedal spring setup attached to the clutch. I think some of the issue is also with the automatic adjusting clutch and dual mass flywheel. Everything in the drivetrain feels to flex around move a bit compared to a more typical manual drivetrain setup.

2) The clutch take up is too quick, inconsistent, somewhere in the middle of the pedal travel, and can literally move <--all thanks to the damn clutch delay valve (CDV) in the clutch slave cylinder.

3) The resting point of the clutch pedal is too high and sits nearly 1" above the brake pedal. Why BMW?

4) When driven in anger, the clutch pedal feels fine but that CDV certainly dumbs down how hard you can release the clutch. I have a hell of a time spinning the tires in 2nd on a 1-2 shift. Around town, the clutch can make you look like an amateur sometimes. In my nearly 30 years of driving, I've never driven a manual that requires so much concentration to leave the line and execute the 1-2 shift smoothly.


To remedy the clutch pedal issue, I made a 1/4" tall $0.25 clutch stop.
That helped with gauging take up. About 3 months ago I removed the larger clutch spring and left the smaller one in. It definitely firmed up the pedal a bit but didn't help with clutch feel so I reinstalled it last month. Word of warning for those removing the clutch pedal springs, you'll NEVER get the spring back in unless you disconnect the clutch pedal slave rod arm first. Once you do that, the spring removal/install is fairly easy. For those with backup cameras, you'll likely need to remove/disconnect the backup camera computer as it blocks your access to pop out the plastic retainer that holds the clutch pedal slave rod arm in the place.

The Ultimate Clutch Pedal (UCP) seemed to be the ticket to increase pedal firmness, add some feel, and put the pedal height where it belongs. I ordered the thing back in early July. It's STILL backordered EVERYWHERE. When you go on the Ultimate Clutch Pedal website, I get the sense that this company has gone under recently.

I will be buying an OEM clutch slave cylinder, drilling out the CDV, and installing the modded unit. I pray the lack of a CDV will improve the feel.

I believe many of the issues with the clutch feel and resting height can be fixed, but it will cost you $500+ to do it assuming you can by the UCP.

I agree with absolutely everything you said here, It's a real problem. I've even considered just selling the car which sucks because it was literally my dream daily. My house was just completely destroyed by hurricane michael along with everything in it so I cant spend the money to try to correct it now. My last hope will be removing the CDV. it that doesnt do the trick then I guess I'll just consider selling it to buy the damn auto which I hate the idea of but what other option would I have. It has a total sh*t clutch, I hate it. I cant stand feeling like a rookie everytime I drive it.

[FastActionJax]

Originally Posted by YuminNuman

For the CDV you don't have to (shouldn't!) drill the metal piece out (as I did...) just remove the metal thing entirely and the little rubber stopper and bin the both of them.

With the CDV out and the pedal spring removed it really is much better. It's night and day from stock. I don't know why they made it that way, perhaps it is legitimate engineering and I've done harm to the longevity of the system, but I personally think it's a conspiracy to kill the MT. "We can't get rid of it yet, but lets make it really shitty to drive so nobody wants to buy it again in 3 years .. then we can get rid of it". And here we are, G20 with no MT. Which had to be partly due to everyone saying the MT on the F30 sucked. And it did suck .. from the factory, but with a couple changes there's actually a terrific gearbox there... it's a shame.

was it a pain to bleed the clutch? I have little experience bleeding car lines, I do it on the bike all the time but for some reason I'm intimidated by the bimmer. do I need to buy a bleeder?