[OzBMR]

Originally Posted by SC_B5X

Doesn't look like it fixed the issue, not yet at least.

Log from now:
https://datazap.me/u/richmichael97/w...56-57-58-59-60

Before:

https://datazap.me/u/richmichael97/w...&mark=86-58-43

V1.7.5 seems to have been the best so far

The map versions you're flashing do have the XHP lash/Manual Trans tick box? Definitely not the ZF torque limiter?

This compares V1.10 to V1.7.5 more boost = more torque

[SC_B5X]

Originally Posted by OzBMR

V1.7.5 seems to have been the best so far

The map versions you're flashing do have the XHP lash/Manual Trans tick box? Definitely not the ZF torque limiter?

This compares V1.10 to V1.7.5 more boost = more torque

[img ]https://i.imgur.com/3MzLk8w.jpg[/img]

There is no tick box when using custom tunes, only OTS. But XHP has torque limiters disabled so there shouldn't be anything holding it back except some random torque limiter we don't know what it is yet.

[enemigo13]

Originally Posted by SC_B5X

Anyone on MHD with Big Boost kit/ Pure 800 and ran into this?

Gears 1-4 seem to be limited to 23-24PSI of boost, and then toward redline they tank down to 20PSI. Once I hit 5th gear it targets 25-27PSI like it's supposed to. Tuner has tried adding more WGDC and has done other things but the DME is refusing to go over this 23psi limit in any gear lower than 5th.

I see your car is 2016, what I-level it has? I noticed that 2018-2019 sw has way better target hit in lower gears than old 2016 sw.

[marcthedark]

Originally Posted by SC_B5X

There is no tick box when using custom tunes, only OTS. But XHP has torque limiters disabled so there shouldn't be anything holding it back except some random torque limiter we don't know what it is yet.

Just check xhp as they have the option to limit the torque (or raise the limit less) custom or preset > not that you flashed it with lower torque limit in gears 1-4

[kern417]

Originally Posted by SC_B5X

Anyone on MHD with Big Boost kit/ Pure 800 and ran into this?

Gears 1-4 seem to be limited to 23-24PSI of boost, and then toward redline they tank down to 20PSI. Once I hit 5th gear it targets 25-27PSI like it's supposed to. Tuner has tried adding more WGDC and has done other things but the DME is refusing to go over this 23psi limit in any gear lower than 5th.
]

Transmission Torque limiter. It's the same thing that the Supra guys are facing. That's why you saw A90 development tank a few months ago, because people hit a brick wall. I'm not sure who's working on working around it.

Originally Posted by IMS-340MP

Hi Kern, What happens more than 3 degrees timing pull? does it mean the engine starts to knock?

Also in BM3 logs you have knock detection but I can't find it in the MHD logs, there is knock delta but it's not exactly knock detection.

Nothing happens necessarily. Typically knock will cause the car to pull timing, not the other way around. I'm not sure what our limit of adjustment is, but usually upwards of 10*-12*. However, you're losing power and efficiency. 3* can be accounted for varying fuel quality and climates, but more than that should be addressed in the tune.

Just my opinion. I like safety headroom on a daily driven car more than peak power that can only be accomplished in perfect conditions.

[luke79]

Originally Posted by OzBMR

Car Editor car settings

Hi, could you give me the M140ix parameters please ?

[IMS-340C]

Yeah sorry that's what I meant, so basically the ECU pulls timing to avoid knock and above 3 degrees there's too much knock detected ?

Interestingly it seems BMW changed the way the ECU avoid knocking by pulling boost instead of pulling timing.

I noticed this because as you know I only have low octane fuel in my country.

Check the logs below the change is interesting.

Old OEM MPPSK tune:
https://datazap.me/u/ims/bmw-oem-mpp...og=0&data=5-24

New OEM MPPSK Tune:
https://datazap.me/u/ims/bmw-oem-mpp...og=0&data=4-19

Originally Posted by kern417

Nothing happens necessarily. Typically knock will cause the car to pull timing, not the other way around. I'm not sure what our limit of adjustment is, but usually upwards of 10*-12*. However, you're losing power and efficiency. 3* can be accounted for varying fuel quality and climates, but more than that should be addressed in the tune.

Just my opinion. I like safety headroom on a daily driven car more than peak power that can only be accomplished in perfect conditions.

[alyabiev]

Originally Posted by IMS-340MP

Yeah sorry that's what I meant, so basically the ECU pulls timing to avoid knock and above 3 degrees there's too much knock detected ?

Interestingly it seems BMW changed the way the ECU avoid knocking by pulling boost instead of pulling timing.

I noticed this because as you know I only have low octane fuel in my country.

Check the logs below the change is interesting.

Old OEM MPPSK tune:
https://datazap.me/u/ims/bmw-oem-mpp...&data=5-24

New OEM MPPSK Tune:
https://datazap.me/u/ims/bmw-oem-mpp...&data=4-19

Your IAT's are different so boost is different because ECU targets load in the first place, not boost. Boost is just a "tool" to help produce desired load. ECU will pull timing first and only then reduce load target in case of severe knock condition.

[kern417]

Originally Posted by IMS-340MP

Yeah sorry that's what I meant, so basically the ECU pulls timing to avoid knock and above 3 degrees there's too much knock detected ?

Interestingly it seems BMW changed the way the ECU avoid knocking by pulling boost instead of pulling timing.

I noticed this because as you know I only have low octane fuel in my country.

Knock is an indicator that causes the dme to pull timing. I've noticed it tends to pull in 1.5* or 3* increments. So if after that initial pull, it knocks again, i'd say there's an issue that needs to be addressed in the tune. Another factor is if it pulls timing in the middle of the pull but timing catches up by redline, that's better than incremental, consistent timing pull throughout the powerband.

I've never seen an ECU pull boost. That won't affect timing. If anything there are other parameters that cause boost to vary like IATs and AFRs, but not timing.

[OzBMR]

Originally Posted by luke79

Hi, could you give me the M140ix parameters please ?

If it's an X Drive it has 70kg (155 lbs) more weight than rear drive only M140i. Everything else is the same.

Here are settings for M140i X Drive, if not X Drive simply deduct the additional weight.

[luke79]

Originally Posted by OzBMR

If it's an X Drive it has 70kg (155 lbs) more weight than rear drive only M140i. Everything else is the same.

Here are settings for M140i X Drive, if not X Drive simply deduct the additional weight.

[SC_B5X]

Originally Posted by enemigo13

I see your car is 2016, what I-level it has? I noticed that 2018-2019 sw has way better target hit in lower gears than old 2016 sw.

I Level?

Originally Posted by marcthedark

Just check xhp as they have the option to limit the torque (or raise the limit less) custom or preset > not that you flashed it with lower torque limit in gears 1-4

It's not a transmission limiter, it's actually a load limiter in the DME it seems.

[OzBMR]

Originally Posted by SC_B5X

I Level?

It's not a transmission limiter, it's actually a load limiter in the DME it seems.

I-Level = Integration Levels and SW = Software

Perhaps ECU version/specification and or other hardware components may influence things, but integration level and software versions?

The flash tunes by MHD, BM3 etc would all probably be based on an earlier version of the DME software.

[Nugget]

Originally Posted by luke79

Hi, could you give me the M140ix parameters please ?

Gearing
Manual:
1st = 4.11:1
2nd = 2.315:1
3rd = 1.542:1
4th = 1.179:1
5th = 1:1
6th = 0.846:1
Reverse = 3.727:1
Final Drive = 3.077

Auto:
1st = 5:1
2nd = 3.2:1
3rd = 2.14:1
4th = 1.667:1
5th = 1.285:1
6th = 1:1
7th = 0.82:1
8th = 0.64:1
Reverse = 3.46:1
Final drive = 2.813

Weight
My M140i is 1542kgs, I assume a xi will be slightly more.

Drag coefficient
0.34

Frontal area
23.03477 sqft

Tyre Diameter
Depends what size you are running.
Standard 245/35/18 is 24.75 inches..

[luke79]

Originally Posted by Nugget

Gearing
Manual:
1st = 4.11:1
2nd = 2.315:1
3rd = 1.542:1
4th = 1.179:1
5th = 1:1
6th = 0.846:1
Reverse = 3.727:1
Final Drive = 3.077

Auto:
1st = 5:1
2nd = 3.2:1
3rd = 2.14:1
4th = 1.667:1
5th = 1.285:1
6th = 1:1
7th = 0.82:1
8th = 0.64:1
Reverse = 3.46:1
Final drive = 2.813

Weight
My M140i is 1542kgs, I assume a xi will be slightly more.

Drag coefficient
0.34

Frontal area
23.03477 sqft

Tyre Diameter
Depends what size you are running.
Standard 245/35/18 is 24.75 inches..

Thanks mate !

[kern417]

Originally Posted by SC_B5X

It's not a transmission limiter, it's actually a load limiter in the DME it seems.

Maybe we're saying the same thing. Somewhere in their communication, the DME limits load based on the TCU parameters (gear). I'm telling you that's the same thing the A90 guys have been fighting for months, to the point that people stopped recommending turbo kits because they can't use the extra power anyway. The guys that are in the 9s are the ones that found workarounds, but there's a reason the fastest times are on stock turbo. And of course they aren't sharing how they did it.

[RMMAGA]

In my experience the ecu cannot target higher then 22 psi, or 2.5 bar absolute, using current tools like BM3. If you put in lets say 2.6 bar to the "boost ceiling", and save, it just reverts back to the max value of 2.5 bar the next time you open it.

You really do not want it to go too much over the target or you risk throttle closure or poor boost control, so until they can figure out how to hack the ecu to accept a higher boost ceiling I think your stuck with 23 PSI at best case. Again even if you get lucky and hit 25 psi without throttle closures it will not be consistent, you add more WGDC the boost PID controller will just reduce it or it will close throttle.

You can also see this in the Pure Turbo 600 whp log they posted, they hit it at about 25 psi got the power number, and the throttle starts to close off, not ideal....

One way to target higher values is to use a JB4, you can target 25 PSI for example using JB4 map 6, stacked on top of your custom flash. This is what I do on my B48

Also one note to watch for is that boost is dependent on timing, when the ECU retards the timing boost will naturally increase, as more of the combustion energy is ejected out the exhaust port vs pushing the piston, yes the ECU will compensate for it with the boost control PID increase WGDC, however not totally, so you may see this dependence. Be sure your not seeing this effect as you get timing correction under high load in high gears, and think its gear dependence when really it is timing dependence, and in fact your better off at the lower boost with better timing

FYI that last log posted by SC_B5x looks perfect, boost right on top of target, and nice timing at 17 deg, your probably not going to do much better then that without a JB4, the load target is high and stable, load target is not the limiting factor, it is boost target and that is limited by the boost ceiling of 2.5 bar, your a little bit over boost target at 24 psi in top end but not enough to get throttle closure, looks pretty much goldilocks to me

[Supr3me]

SC_B5X Do you think you're getting 600 WHP out of the tune/platform with this limiter in place? Have you run virtual dyno numbers or real dyno?

[Denys_BMW]

It would be much better to see not dyno numbers, but Dragy results. Especially 100-200 km/h.

[kern417]

Originally Posted by Denys_BMW

It would be much better to see not dyno numbers, but Dragy results. Especially 100-200 km/h.

Everybody says that but they all vary. A car can set a time 1 perfect day out of the year. Does that make a difference? If someone's time's suffer because of their DA, hell even their crosswinds, then what? It's just another variable tool like a dyno.

[Denys_BMW]

Originally Posted by kern417

Everybody says that but they all vary. A car can set a time 1 perfect day out of the year. Does that make a difference? If someone's time's suffer because of their DA, hell even their crosswinds, then what? It's just another variable tool like a dyno.

If the acceleration time is garbage, then the meaning of tuning? Drive a factory car and there will be no problems if you don't care about acceleration time. On dyno tuner could show you any numbers you want. But who cares about beautiful dyno numbers when car can't accelerate properly? When I pay for tune I want to see acceleration time before and after. The priority of any tuning project is the time of passing the desired distance.

[janea1207]

Originally Posted by Denys_BMW

It would be much better to see not dyno numbers, but Dragy results. Especially 100-200 km/h.

Me also think that is important Dragy times (like 100-200). I saw B58 in Big-boost kit with 600whp+ and and with high 6sec time. This is the time of 500whp!!!