[BavarianFanatic]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I do wonder if erratic driver inputs are at least partly responsible for the negative feelings about gearbox function.

Adaptation to driving style is a continuous assessment and is not long term, so I don't follow why anyone requires to reset the gearbox adaptation values. Nothing to do with the driver style, gearbox adaptation values are essential to accommodate gearbox tolerances and wear. The "re-learn" process is not based on driving style, but specific driving procedures and protocol.

Like the 6HP, the 8HP is also equipped with ASIS (Adaptive Shift Strategy), which mirrors the driver’s mood within seconds, sharpening up response during quicker driving then slipping seamlessly into a more economical regime when the driver resumes a more relaxed approach.

Data for the 6HP with ASIS also states: "The driver-type adaptation is restarted each time the vehicle pulls away from a standstill". Still applicable to the 8HP.

I've driven my 5-series 8HP 'boxed example for 120 miles today in different driving conditions/environments. My outward journey was more relaxed, the drive home at a much faster pace. It works just as the comment above, mirrors the driver and conditions. There is no previous "driving style" to fight, it responds in seconds to a different style.

I've just don't follow this driver legacy nonsense we read about, not in 5, 6 or 8-speed ZF transmissions. Every drive is a new start, whether in slow driving flows, or a blast around the lanes, the gearbox wakes up when required, is lay back when the driver backs off.

I stand corrected regarding real-time adaptations based on driving style. This never used to be the case with the earlier generations I'm most familiar with. The other side of the coin, however, are adaptations based on the operation of the transmission itself. In addition to driver input, it also makes adjustments based on sensor input from the transmission and chassis sensors. If it senses slippage for example, it will fine tune timing and pressures to compensate for it. I think it's THESE adaptations that ultimately lead to complaints such as these. If there's some sort of anomaly in the sensor data it will immediately skew the mapping leading to odd results if the detected issue isn't really an issue. Occasionally it's a one time occurrence that a reset will correct. If it's a legitimate problem with the transmission itself or the transmission's electronics, then it will continue to happen.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by BavarianFanatic

I stand corrected regarding real-time adaptations based on driving style. This never used to be the case with the earlier generations I'm most familiar with. The other side of the coin, however, are adaptations based on the operation of the transmission itself. In addition to driver input, it also makes adjustments based on sensor input from the transmission and chassis sensors. If it senses slippage for example, it will fine tune timing and pressures to compensate for it. I think it's THESE adaptations that ultimately lead to complaints such as these. If there's some sort of anomaly in the sensor data it will immediately skew the mapping leading to odd results if the detected issue isn't really an issue. Occasionally it's a one time occurrence that a reset will correct. If it's a legitimate problem with the transmission itself or the transmission's electronics, then it will continue to happen.

We've had issues with the 6HP where the was 1st gear snatch and some hesitancy. Software updates sorted some of the gearboxes, but where adaptive values were reset, there had to be the re-learn procedure. That is not the same as a user performing some trick reset where the gearbox is left to try and re-adapt itself. It doesn't re-learn new values without the manufacturer's reset procedure, working through the values with diagnostics until the whole process is complete, before the user gets the car back again.

[pjohns21]

[QUOTE=otay][QUOTE=pjohns21]

Originally Posted by BavarianFanatic

...
Totally off base assumptions. Why would you think that a service code must always be pulled before they replaced something? In this case, they sent a transmission fluid sample to BMW for analysis as a final determination. Would you like to see the service report?

CVT?

WTF?

I said unlikely. Yes, what exactly did the BMW service techs determine? I'm expecting an extremely definitive answer. Your description of the issue didn't warrant a completely new transmission. What was so catastrophically wrong with your tranny with no service codes that it had to be completely replaced? The ZF 8AT in the F30 is superb- why were you messing with it in the first place?

[otay]

Going philosophical on y'all...

What is the purpose of adaptive transmission? Quicker shifts? Better MPG?

If I want to shift quickly in a certain situation, I'll use the paddles or shift knob and manually shift myself. If I want to save gas, I'll switch to Eco.

If you read this BMW link...
http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/t...ans_management

it sounds like ATM is trying to anticipate what you're going to do next. This must be marketing BS. If my wife can't read my mind, how is a car going to do that?

I wish there was a way to turn it off. Many times I feel like it's sublime, and operates extremely well. Other times, it seems like its confused, and doesn't know what gear to be in. (This is after the transmission was replaced for discernible lag between gears when shifting, that is now gone <-- The reason I started this thread)

[otay]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

We've had issues with the 6HP where the was 1st gear snatch and some hesitancy. Software updates sorted some of the gearboxes, but where adaptive values were reset, there had to be the re-learn procedure. That is not the same as a user performing some trick reset where the gearbox is left to try and re-adapt itself. It doesn't re-learn new values without the manufacturer's reset procedure, working through the values with diagnostics until the whole process is complete, before the user gets the car back again.

The dealer was aware I was resetting myself. The first 2 times I took it in, all they did was a reset. It was better after reset, so that's why I wanted to do it myself...and as a troubleshooting tool.

I specifically asked if there was a re-learn procedure and SA said no. Sure this may be incorrect, but I tend to believe it as they are a fairly highly rated dealer and it makes sense to me. I'm sure there are many other owners who have done the now well known reset procedure with no ill effect.

Anyway, with new tranny there is no longer lag between gears when shifting.

[//M]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

We've had issues with the 6HP where the was 1st gear snatch and some hesitancy. Software updates sorted some of the gearboxes, but where adaptive values were reset, there had to be the re-learn procedure. That is not the same as a user performing some trick reset where the gearbox is left to try and re-adapt itself. It doesn't re-learn new values without the manufacturer's reset procedure, working through the values with diagnostics until the whole process is complete, before the user gets the car back again.

Those are different adaptations.. Those are wear and solenoid adaptation, whose main purpose is to control smoothness during a shift. So those would apply if you had jerky shifts. For hesitations and gear choice issues driving style reset is what your looking for. Your correct the end user really shouldn't touch the first kind of adaptations and 99% won't have the tools to do so. The driving style reset has been the topic in this thread. That's fine to mess with.

[//M]

Originally Posted by otay

The dealer was aware I was resetting myself. The first 2 times I took it in, all they did was a reset. It was better after reset, so that's why I wanted to do it myself...and as a troubleshooting tool.

I specifically asked if there was a re-learn procedure and SA said no. Sure this may be incorrect, but I tend to believe it as they are a fairly highly rated dealer and it makes sense to me. I'm sure there are many other owners who have done the now well known reset procedure with no ill effect.

Anyway, with new tranny there is no longer lag between gears when shifting.

For that reset there certainly was a learn procedure. (Trust me I know way more about ZF gearboxes and BMW's gearbox software then I would like. )

You must teach in engagement points for the clutchpacks and energy adaptations for the solenoids.

[pjohns21]

What was the final verdict on the defunct, "confused" original transmission in your car, otay? What did the fluid analysis reveal? How is the new transmission performing compared to the old one? How did the dealer justify a replacement through BMW NA's warranty claims process? I am still trying to understand how resetting a software algorithm that is supposed to be adaptive is to going to yield you better transmission performance. Every time the transmission adapted to your driving style across miles and time, you kept resetting it to the original parameters. Yet, you still took issue with the way it performed. You seemed to think that it should have been working better for you, even though you essentially cleared it's memory and previous adaptations (for lack of a better word) to your driving with each reset.

[eluded]

This thread is causing my manual transmission to become confused

[kenwelch]

From a webinar presentation on rebuilding the ZF8HP transmission.

relearn procedure:

TCM Adaptation
It is necessary to perform a drive cycle to provide the proper baseline transmission adaptation. The adaptation procedure should be performed if any of the following procedures are performed:
•
Transmission Assembly Replacement
•
Transmission Control Module Assembly (TCMA) Replacement
•
Internal Transmission repairs
•
Torque Converter Replacement
1. With the scan tool, clear any DTCs that may be set.
2. Drive the vehicle until the vehicle temperature is greater than 30˚C (86˚F).
3. After the vehicle has reached normal operating temperature, and with the scan tool, monitor actual gear state. Drive the vehicle normally with the accelerator pedal between 10% and 20% until 7th gear has been achieved, approximately 76 km/h (47 mph). After 7th gear has been achieved, coast down to 30 mph with no application of the brake or accelerator to allow a 6-5 shift. Brake the vehicle to a stop. Repeat this procedure 5 times.

This is from a very reliable source ATRA

[otay]

Originally Posted by kenwelch

From a webinar presentation on rebuilding the ZF8HP transmission.

relearn procedure:

TCM Adaptation
It is necessary to perform a drive cycle to provide the proper baseline transmission adaptation. The adaptation procedure should be performed if any of the following procedures are performed:
•
Transmission Assembly Replacement
•
Transmission Control Module Assembly (TCMA) Replacement
•
Internal Transmission repairs
•
Torque Converter Replacement
1. With the scan tool, clear any DTCs that may be set.
2. Drive the vehicle until the vehicle temperature is greater than 30˚C (86˚F).
3. After the vehicle has reached normal operating temperature, and with the scan tool, monitor actual gear state. Drive the vehicle normally with the accelerator pedal between 10% and 20% until 7th gear has been achieved, approximately 76 km/h (47 mph). After 7th gear has been achieved, coast down to 30 mph with no application of the brake or accelerator to allow a 6-5 shift. Brake the vehicle to a stop. Repeat this procedure 5 times.

This is from a very reliable source ATRA

Maybe there are 2 resets. One for "driver habit" adaptation and one for wear adaptation. I reset mine again a couple days ago via the BMWAI tool...it actually says "driver habits memory" (look at post #23). No big deal...felt a little bit better to me after, but this is just my judgement.

Possibly the re-learn procedure you described is for the wear adaptation reset. ? And the wear adaptation reset is not accessible via noobs like me?

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by otay

Maybe there are 2 resets. One for "driver habit" adaptation and one for wear adaptation. I reset mine again a couple days ago via the BMWAI tool...it actually says "driver habits memory" (look at post #23). No big deal...felt a little bit better to me after, but this is just my judgement.

Possibly the re-learn procedure you described is for the wear adaptation reset. ? And the wear adaptation reset is not accessible via noobs like me?

Your post #23 shows screen shots/menus of the gearbox adaptation values, clutch pressures and fill times. I see those are being reset to zero. They do not run at zero, are the critical values that are re-established with the re-learn procedure. Any still at zero after running, indicates the procedure has not been followed correctly or completed.

[AntDX316]

Originally Posted by otay

Going philosophical on y'all...

What is the purpose of adaptive transmission? Quicker shifts? Better MPG?

If I want to shift quickly in a certain situation, I'll use the paddles or shift knob and manually shift myself. If I want to save gas, I'll switch to Eco.

If you read this BMW link...
http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/t...ans_management

it sounds like ATM is trying to anticipate what you're going to do next. This must be marketing BS. If my wife can't read my mind, how is a car going to do that?

I wish there was a way to turn it off. Many times I feel like it's sublime, and operates extremely well. Other times, it seems like its confused, and doesn't know what gear to be in. (This is after the transmission was replaced for discernible lag between gears when shifting, that is now gone <-- The reason I started this thread)

Thanks, that was a great explanation. I did the reset procedure you said and the way others said too but I feel like it's much worse now. 2013 750i xDrive. I like low throttle press not a lot in Comfort+. I used to be able to get good smooth acceleration with it off. I did a few full throttle runs at speed. It seemed to make it worse so I ran through the procedure. Maybe I Just need to press it down more. I mean, the car accelerates to 50mph w/o even breaking 1.5k rpm. Maybe it's my fault I'm not pressing it down further. No doubt there isn't enough torque due to 4.4L. N62 from 2005 545i is what I'm used to. Car is heavy and w/ no turbo spool it feels like 300hp.

Flooring it at 65mph to 85mph was like no sweat. I got the car for $34k and it has tons of features like Adaptive LED lights, M sport package, and others. It's kind of unfair just as a new loaded Camry that's new is that price or even Altima. I mean, a lot of knowledge I found on the internet and applied I got for free because of youtube and google. It's the same attitude I have when I found how proper nutrients fixes cancer. I found out why because the body gets what it needs. Loading up meds is not the way. Because it looks super free and people who spend top dollar medical insurance get doctors who load them up with meds and more counter active meds that counter act the meds, their body becomes toxified. To be honest I think the whole point people even get cancer and don't get the right answer is the medical system needs more money or their time on earth is done. The real secret is to look deep into proper nutritional intake, corrective exercise, and stress management. Not ask doctors for more synthetic meds to rationalize the problem as being fixed because an 'expert' (who is not up-to-date just as we were taught the smallest thing was protons, neutrons, and electrons as well as the pluto being the furthest planet from the sun) said this is how it's supposed to be. I mean, everything I read could be wrong and all the great prognosis of the proper nutrients are all fake so they could make sales but you should have the same attitude about heaven being real because a lot of NDE's say it is and Jesus too.

[gaby44gbs]

Originally Posted by stanleyy

guys, you can use the chinese tool "BMWAI coder" to do that..
http://cartechnology.co.uk/showthrea...ighlight=bmwai

it will even show you all the adaptation parameters! It is an excellent coding tool and in most cases it can completely replace Esys for simple coding tasks (and FSC Map code calculation

All you need is a cheap ENET coding cable. Give it a try...

That IS a terrible IDEEA! DON T DO THAT!!
I ve done that and the gear box shifg horrible! i donno what to do to go back to what it was before

[ogoal]

Hi guys,

My 320i has jerking problem in low speed. When I remove foot from accelerator, the speed drop to about 20km/hr then the jerking come out, which feels like pressing a little brake... it is a kind of bad feeling, you know, in Beijing the traffic is bad, the car is often in low speed status...

I searched some topics, but no clue about this, someone said removal foot from accelerator slowly can work, but it is hard to do... is it related to the adaptive transmissions as discussing in this topic? Is there anyone else has this problem?

Any help will be appreciated and sorry for my english :P, thanks.

[otay]

Originally Posted by gaby44gbs

That IS a terrible IDEEA! DON T DO THAT!!
I ve done that and the gear box shifg horrible! i donno what to do to go back to what it was before

If you reset transmission adaptation, it will re-learn over time on it's own. Probably a couple days of driving. I've done it multiple times.

With that said, for most people, I'd recommend bringing shifting concerns to the dealer, and they can reset if needed.

[otay]

Originally Posted by ogoal

Hi guys,

My 320i has jerking problem in low speed. When I remove foot from accelerator, the speed drop to about 20km/hr then the jerking come out, which feels like pressing a little brake... it is a kind of bad feeling, you know, in Beijing the traffic is bad, the car is often in low speed status...

I searched some topics, but no clue about this, someone said removal foot from accelerator slowly can work, but it is hard to do... is it related to the adaptive transmissions as discussing in this topic? Is there anyone else has this problem?

Any help will be appreciated and sorry for my english :P, thanks.

Sounds like this is a downshift. How long have you had the car? If it's new to you, you might need to get accustomed to BMW shift programming. It's not as smooth, because rapid shifts are thought to be more sporty. Have you ever driven a manual, downshifted and let the clutch out quickly? My auto behaves like that sometimes (especially in Sport mode setting). I kinda like it.

If you still have warranty, suggest you take it to the dealer.

[FBMWWINS]

I flashed Alpina B4 transmission software into EGS of my F32 435iXdrive 05-2014 build. All went smoothly meaning no errors in E-SYS. I reset adaptations values in ISTA and went for a drive. Gears were shown so I knew the flash was on.
BUT as I started to drive gears were switching immediately amd very abruptly. Upon doing one good pull the gear knocked and power was cut. Tried in all driving modes and same problem. Gear enters dead spot and is a no go.

Thus I flashed back to original EGS software, test drove and all good. ISTA does not throw anything.

In between I had reset the transmission adaption values in ISTA and now they all show up as 0mbar (clutch fill pressures) and 0.0ms under Rapid fill times.

Is this bad?

Out of these 2 I took the 1st option

1. Transmission Control Unit: Display and reset adaption values and
2. Transmission Control Unit: Reset Learning Function


Thanks

[Cyanfall]

I feel this function is totally nonsense. Car should have consistent performance and feeling, not adaptive. And if I want the car driven normally I put it in normal, sport put in sport. I dont need tran to learn it itself.

[Cyanfall]

Originally Posted by otay

Sounds like this is a downshift. How long have you had the car? If it's new to you, you might need to get accustomed to BMW shift programming. It's not as smooth, because rapid shifts are thought to be more sporty. Have you ever driven a manual, downshifted and let the clutch out quickly? My auto behaves like that sometimes (especially in Sport mode setting). I kinda like it.

If you still have warranty, suggest you take it to the dealer.

My car has jerking problem at 14-17kph very low speed. The tran kept upshit then downshift then up then down then up then down for every split second. I figured the speed was too low for the intended design so tran have no idea what to do. I simple fix it by put in manual mode when crawling

[otay]

Originally Posted by F06WINS

I flashed Alpina B4 transmission software into EGS of my F32 435iXdrive 05-2014 build. All went smoothly meaning no errors in E-SYS. I reset adaptations values in ISTA and went for a drive. Gears were shown so I knew the flash was on.
BUT as I started to drive gears were switching immediately amd very abruptly. Upon doing one good pull the gear knocked and power was cut. Tried in all driving modes and same problem. Gear enters dead spot and is a no go.

Thus I flashed back to original EGS software, test drove and all good. ISTA does not throw anything.

In between I had reset the transmission adaption values in ISTA and now they all show up as 0mbar (clutch fill pressures) and 0.0ms under Rapid fill times.

Is this bad?

Out of these 2 I took the 1st option

1. Transmission Control Unit: Display and reset adaption values and
2. Transmission Control Unit: Reset Learning Function


Thanks

Interesting choice for a mod. I have not used E-sys, but have reset the adaptations. Yes, it goes zero, that's what the reset does. Some have said there's a special relearning procedure, but I never did that and was fine. Just started driving again.

If you measure the values again in a few days you should see them change and typically will stabilize.

[FBMWWINS]

Yes I thought it could work....but after finding out the Alpina B4 / B4S models use an upgraded transmission from ZF, I understood why I got those results. So I flashed EGS back with original data and all is good.
Reasons for resetting adaptation values were:

1) Flashing to a different transmission software

2) Most importantly I installed the Stage 2 BM3 tune the other day and I remember a few German tuners advising to reset those values when I inquired. I just wondered whether it would have any "side effects" as it was the first time I did that.