[fsumach]

My last BMW was a 2006 330i with a manual transmission. The car had lots of issues after the warranty was up, but it drove BRILLIANTLY. Since then I have had a G37 sport 6MT and a Charger 392.

I am looking at two cars probably not often cross-shopped, but they fit the bill for me at this time—and both interest me. The first is a new 2020 VW Jetta GLI with a manual and the autobahn package ($29k.) The second is a 2017 340i xDrive with a manual and 25k on the clock ($33k.) The BMW is “luxury line” and well equipped.

Interested in any thoughts the group may have, especially considering the 340i only has 8 months of warranty left.

Mike

[BimR]

I cannot compare the GLI but I am still in love with my GTI that I had before the BMW. I actually prefer the GTI handling. But I don't have a 340 so it's unfair comparison.

[weehe126]

I'd say 340i hands down. But I also got my 2017 m sport for only 29k earlier this year. I'd say shop around and you should be able to find a better deal, even with the crazy market.

[Astone22]

I had a 6 speed gli before getting my 428. I think the Bmw handles night and day compared to a front wheel drive vehicle. That being said you could get an extended warranty on the 2017 340. I would just go drive both and go with what you like!

[AspektUSA]

If you're going VW, stick with the Golf GTI/R series.

The Jetta simply isn't as good as the Golf series when it comes to refinement and segment positioning.

That said, I did upgrade from a 15 GTI to a 17 340i M-Sport.

I wouldn't really consider buying an F30 without the Msport and Track Handling Pkg, but that's my own personal opinion.
If you're not able to find one equipped as such, take a look at the MkVIII GTI.

[fsumach]

Thanks for all the replies. Is the F30 really that much softer without the mSport package? Are there major problem areas I should be aware of in the 17? As I said I loved how my e90 drove.. but... in a 12 month span after the warranty was out: a window fell into the door, the passenger airbag sensor failed, the trunk actuator failed, and one or two other things as well. That smooth motor and transmission almost completely made up for it though!

[BimR]

Originally Posted by AspektUSA

If you're going VW, stick with the Golf GTI/R series.

The Jetta simply isn't as good as the Golf series when it comes to refinement and segment positioning.

That said, I did upgrade from a 15 GTI to a 17 340i M-Sport.

I wouldn't really consider buying an F30 without the Msport and Track Handling Pkg, but that's my own personal opinion.
If you're not able to find one equipped as such, take a look at the MkVIII GTI.

This is exactly what I should have done...but didn't know enough! Love the GTI and I think m-sport might be the way to go.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by fsumach

Thanks for all the replies. Is the F30 really that much softer without the mSport package? Are there major problem areas I should be aware of in the 17? As I said I loved how my e90 drove.. but... in a 12 month span after the warranty was out: a window fell into the door, the passenger airbag sensor failed, the trunk actuator failed, and one or two other things as well. That smooth motor and transmission almost completely made up for it though!

I've owned many VWs in the past and I really enjoyed driving them. But I can't imagine a scenario where I would choose any VW over a BMW 340i.

The 2016/2017 340i/ix is the sweet spot right now for the best BMW for the price. The B58 engine is powerful and reliable. The F30 chassis is well proven. Make them show you documentation that the car has had regular oil changes. If not, then walk away. With 25k miles I'd expect three including the oil change that the dealer did when they got the car.

Buy an extended warranty if it makes you more comfortable. But a 2017 340i with 25k miles shouldn't become a money pit.

A big caution: "M Sport" is a BMW marketing term that they slap on so many things that it becomes almost meaningless.

Many guys will talk about their "M Sport" models assuming that they have special suspension or brakes, etc. when all they have is an exterior M Sport bumper package.

The best way to understand what a specific car has is to run the VIN through an mdecoder type of website to get a line item printout showing what was installed at the factory. Dealers can provide this printout. Never trust a car dealers written description of what is installed in a car. It's usually generic boilerplate that can be inaccurate and misleading.

What is the VIN number?

Some desirable line items are:

S2NHA M Sport Brakes
Only $600 as a new option, it costs about 3x as much to retrofit later with used calipers. Visually if a 340i has blue brake calipers then those are M Sport Brakes. If a VIN listing says P337A then the car has standard grey colored brake calipers. Still excellent brakes though.

Adaptive Suspension line item
This means that struts and shocks are electronically adjustable. It's also referred to as EDC Electronic Damping Control. This is desirable. It also makes it less expensive to swap in lowering springs that would bottom out and destroy standard shocks.

HUD Heads Up Display of gauge information onto the windshield so you rarely have to look down while driving. I can't live without it now.

Harmon Kardon audio system, often appears as Top Hifi system in BMW documents

Hope this helps! Good luck!

[fsumach]

This is super helpful, thank you! It's a one owner car off lease. Of the options you mentioned, it has the Harman Kardon audio, nav, carplay, and other comfort-related features. I ran the VIN in mdecoder and it looks like the listing is correct.

I'll go look at the car this weekend, the only less than ideal thing I see in the pictures is some road rash on the outer rim of a couple of the wheels. I'll also ask for the service history--though it's at a non-BMW dealer.

Is $33k a reasonable price for just under 25k miles or do you all feel there is significant negotiating room if it seems to be the right car for me?

Thanks!

Originally Posted by johnung

I've owned many VWs in the past and I really enjoyed driving them. But I can't imagine a scenario where I would choose any VW over a BMW 340i.

The 2016/2017 340i/ix is the sweet spot right now for the best BMW for the price. The B58 engine is powerful and reliable. The F30 chassis is well proven. Make them show you documentation that the car has had regular oil changes. If not, then walk away. With 25k miles I'd expect three including the oil change that the dealer did when they got the car.

Buy an extended warranty if it makes you more comfortable. But a 2017 340i with 25k miles shouldn't become a money pit.

A big caution: "M Sport" is a BMW marketing term that they slap on so many things that it becomes almost meaningless.

Many guys will talk about their "M Sport" models assuming that they have special suspension or brakes, etc. when all they have is an exterior M Sport bumper package.

The best way to understand what a specific car has is to run the VIN through an mdecoder type of website to get a line item printout showing what was installed at the factory. Dealers can provide this printout. Never trust a car dealers written description of what is installed in a car. It's usually generic boilerplate that can be inaccurate and misleading.

What is the VIN number?

Some desirable line items are:

S2NHA M Sport Brakes
Only $600 as a new option, it costs about 3x as much to retrofit later with used calipers. Visually if a 340i has blue brake calipers then those are M Sport Brakes. If a VIN listing says P337A then the car has standard grey colored brake calipers. Still excellent brakes though.

Adaptive Suspension line item
This means that struts and shocks are electronically adjustable. It's also referred to as EDC Electronic Damping Control. This is desirable. It also makes it less expensive to swap in lowering springs that would bottom out and destroy standard shocks.

HUD Heads Up Display of gauge information onto the windshield so you rarely have to look down while driving. I can't live without it now.

Harmon Kardon audio system, often appears as Top Hifi system in BMW documents

Hope this helps! Good luck!

[AspektUSA]

Originally Posted by fsumach

This is super helpful, thank you! It's a one owner car off lease. Of the options you mentioned, it has the Harman Kardon audio, nav, carplay, and other comfort-related features. I ran the VIN in mdecoder and it looks like the listing is correct.

I'll go look at the car this weekend, the only less than ideal thing I see in the pictures is some road rash on the outer rim of a couple of the wheels. I'll also ask for the service history--though it's at a non-BMW dealer.

Is $33k a reasonable price for just under 25k miles or do you all feel there is significant negotiating room if it seems to be the right car for me?

Thanks!

I would also state I said MSport (cosmetic) + Track Handling Pkg (Performance parts).

THP gets you:

Blue M-sport brakes
Variable sport steering
Electronic suspension
15mm lower ride height
Auxiliary oil coolers

I picked up my 340i 8spd MSport/THP as a CPO with 2yrs of warranty left on it, 19k mi on the clock, for 34k in January 2020.

The 340i feels much more like a do-everything muscle car, whereas the VW GTI is the tossable, sporty, do everything hatchback.


I would suggest driving both (MKVIII GTI in particular) before deciding one way or another.

[aardate]

The manuals are very rare, if the car is clean and you like the way it drives then I would buy it. The price seems to be fair. I picked up my 2018 340i 8 spd with 16k miles back in aug 2020 for $35k.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by fsumach

This is super helpful, thank you! It's a one owner car off lease. Of the options you mentioned, it has the Harman Kardon audio, nav, carplay, and other comfort-related features. I ran the VIN in mdecoder and it looks like the listing is correct.

I'll go look at the car this weekend, the only less than ideal thing I see in the pictures is some road rash on the outer rim of a couple of the wheels. I'll also ask for the service history--though it's at a non-BMW dealer.

Is $33k a reasonable price for just under 25k miles or do you all feel there is significant negotiating room if it seems to be the right car for me?

Thanks!

Sometimes service history stuff is on a Carfax but never assume that CarFax information is complete. Any BMW dealer can look up service history by the VIN. Some dealers will look it up for you and others won't. You may also find guys on here who work at dealers who will help you out.

If the car was at a BMW dealer and certified as a CPO car, at 25k miles they often would put new tires on it and maybe brake pads. But at another dealer of some sort you are on your own. So you or your mechanic should look carefully at those. Hey, check the glove compartment. I've seen service receipts left there.

Heck, pay a BMW an hour's time to look it over and printout the service history. That's a fraction of the investment that you would be making.

My antenna just goes up when a car off lease with low miles isn't snapped up by a dealer as a CPO car because they can sell them for more. I found a car just like that at a local non-BMW dealer. Everything about the car looked like a great deal. Luckily my buddy in sales at the local BMW dealer knew about the car and warned me. He said that the car had been turned in with 27k miles but the oil had never been changed, ever. And the sick part was that oil changes were part of free service but the guy never brought it in. My buddy said that they could never CPO the car so a local non-BMW dealer bought it and was trying to sell it.

If someone waves a carfax a little too much as proof that a car is perfect-beware. I caught two different BMW dealers waving carfaxes at me trying to sell me cars as CPO. Both cars had been damaged and repainted by previous owners at places not reporting to Carfax. It was obvious by their reaction that they knew it and were trying to hide it.

Even if damage is minor, if it shows up on a Carfax the value of the car goes down

Not trying to scare you, just be alert and check everything.

[fsumach]

Thanks Johnung for your help, and others for your comments and advice.

[orbE46]

Here's a tip, if the dealer doesn't want to budge too much on price, see if they'll repair the curb rash. My dealer didn't budge much on price but they did agree to have their PDR guy go over the car and knock down about half a dozen door dings. It's like they were never even there, and would've probably cost me a few hundred if I paid for it myself.

Usually for things like curb rash and PDR the dealers get special rates.

[eluded]

Just save the manuals.

[dmanb2b]

I think you can do better on price, especially if it's not an msport and even in this strong used car market. Test drive the car, but don't limit yourself to local deals. I just picked up this 2016 msport with 39K miles, every single option other than track handling, shipped from BMW dealer in St.Loius to NY for $28K. One owner, clean carfax, service history and dealer properly resprayed front, rear bumpers and powder coated all 4 wheels and m-performance exhaust. The car looks brand new.

I have owned a few Jettas and just sold my TDI...the small vw sedans feel like a tin can compared to the f30 and doesn't come close to the power or reliability of the b58. Get the msport, with sport seats...you won't regret it.

View post on imgur.com

[fsumach]

Thanks all. An update. Based on some of Johnung’s posts, I decided to run a carfax to get service history of the car. It had 3 oil changes and all other service, however; although the AutoCheck that was freely accessible on the advertisement came back “guaranteed” no accidents, the carfax came back with a report of severe accident damage to the car in late 2019. So, clearly a no go. To save anyone who checks this forum in the future from any issues, the VIN of this car is WBA8B7G33HNT70974. Steer clear.

My search continues. Thanks again all!!

[That ex VW guy]

Originally Posted by fsumach

My last BMW was a 2006 330i with a manual transmission. The car had lots of issues after the warranty was up, but it drove BRILLIANTLY. Since then I have had a G37 sport 6MT and a Charger 392.

I am looking at two cars probably not often cross-shopped, but they fit the bill for me at this time—and both interest me. The first is a new 2020 VW Jetta GLI with a manual and the autobahn package ($29k.) The second is a 2017 340i xDrive with a manual and 25k on the clock ($33k.) The BMW is “luxury line” and well equipped.

Interested in any thoughts the group may have, especially considering the 340i only has 8 months of warranty left.

Mike

My background is in my sig. I've driven VW's for over 2 decades. A few others. This car is the 1st Bimmer I've owned.

My last car was a 2013 Golf R. VW's are definitely more "connected" and if you are all about the driving experience, it's tough to get more nitty gritty then a VW...w/ less connection if you get newer.

What I'm noticing in my new Bimmer is that it's a lot more "posh" and "drama free". For example, there's a round about near by I used to take at like 55 mph in my Golf R, and I would have a little brow sweat, pale knuckles, and a palpitation or two circling around it. The Bimmer I just throw it in there, floor it, turn the wheel, change the XM station, change the view on the Nav, and exit the round about at 60 mph. Does that illustrate what I feel the difference is?

If I wanted to pass about of semis on the Turnpike in my Golf R, I'd floor it and away I'd go, sensing all the speed I'm trying to generate to pass the convoy. In the Bimmer, same thing, it passes the convoy a bit quicker, and with no drama.

If you would ask me why I switched, it was cylinder envy. The stock B58 in Sport mode sounds 10000% better than the Golf R with the most carefully selected (which means most expensive) exhaust on it. Also, I'm in my 4th decade, I don't need BCUZ RACECAR any more lol...although if I had a MkIV R32, I would not have traded in my Golf R.

[AspektUSA]

Originally Posted by That ex VW guy

My background is in my sig. I've driven VW's for over 2 decades. A few others. This car is the 1st Bimmer I've owned.

My last car was a 2013 Golf R. VW's are definitely more "connected" and if you are all about the driving experience, it's tough to get more nitty gritty then a VW...w/ less connection if you get newer.

What I'm noticing in my new Bimmer is that it's a lot more "posh" and "drama free". For example, there's a round about near by I used to take at like 55 mph in my Golf R, and I would have a little brow sweat, pale knuckles, and a palpitation or two circling around it. The Bimmer I just throw it in there, floor it, turn the wheel, change the XM station, change the view on the Nav, and exit the round about at 60 mph. Does that illustrate what I feel the difference is?

If I wanted to pass about of semis on the Turnpike in my Golf R, I'd floor it and away I'd go, sensing all the speed I'm trying to generate to pass the convoy. In the Bimmer, same thing, it passes the convoy a bit quicker, and with no drama.

If you would ask me why I switched, it was cylinder envy. The stock B58 in Sport mode sounds 10000% better than the Golf R with the most carefully selected (which means most expensive) exhaust on it. Also, I'm in my 4th decade, I don't need BCUZ RACECAR any more lol...although if I had a MkIV R32, I would not have traded in my Golf R.

The B58 was the major selling point for me over an Alfa Romeo.

If I could have a Giulia with a naturally aspirated V6, I'd have gone with that over my F30 in a heartbeat.

Comparing the B58 to the I-4 Turbos of VW/Alfa isn't strictly fair, as they are powerful and flexible engines in their own right - but don't always tickle the auditory nerves as the I-6 does for sure.

That said, part of me wonders if VW today is what BMW was 20-30 years ago: fun, attainable, every day sporty practicality. [even more so than they originally were with BMW's departure from the segment]

BMW of the SUV era seems more main stream than it should be.

[mike082802]

Originally Posted by dmanb2b

I think you can do better on price, especially if it's not an msport and even in this strong used car market. Test drive the car, but don't limit yourself to local deals. I just picked up this 2016 msport with 39K miles, every single option other than track handling, shipped from BMW dealer in St.Loius to NY for $28K. One owner, clean carfax, service history and dealer properly resprayed front, rear bumpers and powder coated all 4 wheels and m-performance exhaust. The car looks brand new.

I have owned a few Jettas and just sold my TDI...the small vw sedans feel like a tin can compared to the f30 and doesn't come close to the power or reliability of the b58. Get the msport, with sport seats...you won't regret it.

View post on imgur.com

6MT or Auto?

[dmanb2b]

Originally Posted by mike082802

6MT or Auto?

Auto

[That ex VW guy]

Originally Posted by AspektUSA

The B58 was the major selling point for me over an Alfa Romeo.

If I could have a Giulia with a naturally aspirated V6, I'd have gone with that over my F30 in a heartbeat.

Comparing the B58 to the I-4 Turbos of VW/Alfa isn't strictly fair, as they are powerful and flexible engines in their own right - but don't always tickle the auditory nerves as the I-6 does for sure.

That said, part of me wonders if VW today is what BMW was 20-30 years ago: fun, attainable, every day sporty practicality.[even more so than they originally were with BMW's departure from the segment]

BMW of the SUV era seems more main stream than it should be.

That is one way to see it. You upgrade a VW to be more like a BMW and that’s pretty much Audi. BMW doesn’t have tiers like VAG, which we know goes up to Lamborghini and Bentley.

That said and to stay on thread topic, what makes OP pick a VW, when it should be Audi? Their absence of a manual trans?

I almost went with a B8 S4, but I already owned an S4 (w/ 2 turbos), and I wanted AWD but want the rear bias of xDrive. Syncro (VW) and quattro are FWD biased.