[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by dazzapb

Fair point I think as the virus is rampant they are all playing politics - what a time to do that.
The Govt say they have the same ratio of payments - matching Lancashire and Merseyside. Who knows if that's true but 10 days of delays over 5 million is Madness.
Defo grandstanding on both sides.

Agreed on all fronts.

Of course one can make decisions and make things happen and the other side can only complain and cajole.... so any delay falls firmly at the door of the PM to me. Put them in Tier 3, give them an interim award and negotiate any improvement on that (which of course might be influenced by how well they encourage their constituents to stick to the new rules...)

[Russbmw]

You know what's really bothering me about this whole situation? It's a bit of a hypothetical question really....

We are all busy analysing the UK, observing the EU and the US - For the life of me I cannot understand why we are not looking at China.

Ground zero.

If anyone is going to know or shed some light on how shit went down, it's China, right? They're ahead of the curve by some margin (in my opinion, way more margin than they're letting on....but that's another story).

How many cases over there? What's all the infection rates and age demographic data from the place that is going to be further into this situation than anywhere else?

Heard on the news last night we're not starting trials on people deliberately infecting them to try shed light on how the virus works. No-one else in the world done this already, who have a few months headstart on the UK?

Why is there radio silence and why are the WHO (and the world leaders) not pushing to find out what's going on, and (more importantly) why are China not offering this information freely?

I have my own views on this, but would be interested to hear other peoples.

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by Russbmw

You know what's really bothering me about this whole situation? It's a bit of a hypothetical question really....

We are all busy analysing the UK, observing the EU and the US - For the life of me I cannot understand why we are not looking at China.

Ground zero.

If anyone is going to know or shed some light on how shit went down, it's China, right? They're ahead of the curve by some margin (in my opinion, way more margin than they're letting on....but that's another story).

How many cases over there? What's all the infection rates and age demographic data from the place that is going to be further into this situation than anywhere else?

Heard on the news last night we're not starting trials on people deliberately infecting them to try shed light on how the virus works. No-one else in the world done this already, who have a few months headstart on the UK?

Why is there radio silence and why are the WHO (and the world leaders) not pushing to find out what's going on, and (more importantly) why are China not offering this information freely?

I have my own views on this, but would be interested to hear other peoples.

Not much point asking them if we dont believe their answers.....

[DougMcL]

Without being political Burnham comes across as empathic, which is what I think is needed right now. That quality is conspicuously absent at the moment!

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

Not sure as trying not to watch it, its embarassing.... however, my Mum (still up north and probably a traditionalist red) was saying that it was good that he was trying to stand up for all those jobs and businesses and get them more money... so maybe your view on his efforts depends on the lens you are looking through?

Boris is not coming out of it very well which is the main thing Burnham wanted.....

Rumours of a mass demonstration and troops on the streets on Manchester before the week is out....

I think the difference is others Mayors and regional leaders have done it a little more quietly and less like a 1980’s union leader. South Yorkshire have just sorted their package, as did Liverpool and Lancashire previously, and neither made it a negotiation through the media.

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

I think the difference is others Mayors and regional leaders have done it a little more quietly and less like a union leader. South Yorkshire have just sorted their package, as did Liverpool and Lancashire previously, and neither made it a negotiation through news outlets.

Not sure the Mayors of those regions are former shadow cabinet ministers.... Burnham was making a stand as he clearly thinks the govt need to do more, and that probably reflects his time on opposition benches.

With 20+ million people now in some form of restriction above tier1, and millions more going to tier 3 soon, there will be a number of additional social problems to tackle if the support package isnt right. Telling people they havent got a job - or that they have but they will be on 24 hours a week / 60% of their wage - is a great way to understand the hardship this virus is bringing. If we cant relax the restrictions (and I agree we shouldnt) then we have to protect the people. 60% pay when you are on £10 an hour and live in south east is not viable. I assume it probably isnt in Manchester either.

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by Russbmw

You know what's really bothering me about this whole situation? It's a bit of a hypothetical question really....

We are all busy analysing the UK, observing the EU and the US - For the life of me I cannot understand why we are not looking at China.

Ground zero.

If anyone is going to know or shed some light on how shit went down, it's China, right? They're ahead of the curve by some margin (in my opinion, way more margin than they're letting on....but that's another story).

How many cases over there? What's all the infection rates and age demographic data from the place that is going to be further into this situation than anywhere else?

Heard on the news last night we're not starting trials on people deliberately infecting them to try shed light on how the virus works. No-one else in the world done this already, who have a few months headstart on the UK?

Why is there radio silence and why are the WHO (and the world leaders) not pushing to find out what's going on, and (more importantly) why are China not offering this information freely?

I have my own views on this, but would be interested to hear other peoples.

My view is that they’re on about a par with us on vaccine development. Brazil have just ordered 40 million from China for January. If they were immunising the Chinese population in large numbers we’d already know.

Where it started, who knows, can’t change that now. In a lab or naturally, I don’t believe any conspiracies about it being deliberately released.

And as for it being under control, they just control their people better to get a grip of this. Most of the time that’s not good, it’s an impingement of their rights. But for virus control it works great.

Their lockdowns are nothing like ours and people don’t go anywhere at all. Not even if the bars start serving pasties.

[Russbmw]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

Not much point asking them if we dont believe their answers.....

Absolutely.

That is (one of my many) thoughts on the mattter. Probing will no doubt expose holes in stories all over the place.

Question is, why would the WORLD (which is quite different from one country having beef with another) not be asking questions? The world has literally been brought to it's knees, and where the virus was supposed to have started is China (no accusations or anything there, it's just factual)....so how's it hanging Wuhan?!

We've already established toilet roll is not exclusively made in China.

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by Russbmw

Absolutely.

That is (one of my many) thoughts on the mattter. Probing will no doubt expose holes in stories all over the place.

Question is, why would the WORLD (which is quite different from one country having beef with another) not be asking questions? The world has literally been brought to it's knees, and where the virus was supposed to have started is China (no accusations or anything there, it's just factual)....so how's it hanging Wuhan?!

We've already established toilet roll is not exclusively made in China.

Wuhan was just controlled by an iron fisted lockdown wasn’t it? What is there to learn?

I might be missing something, but what do you think they are hiding from us, or what do you think they have done differently?

[Russbmw]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

And as for it being under control, they just control their people better to get a grip of this. Most of the time that’s not good, it’s an impingement of their rights. But for virus control it works great.

Their lockdowns are nothing like ours and people don’t go anywhere at all. Not even if the bars start serving pasties.

That is very true. The question I had was that China have a huge manufacturing capability as we all know, which doesn't seem to have fallen out of it's arse, so they can't have been locking down that severely?

[Russbmw]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

Wuhan was just controlled by an iron fisted lockdown wasn’t it? What is there to learn?

I might be missing something, but what do you think they are hiding from us, or what do you think they have done differently?

Oh I think there's a lot that has been hidden - but really the question is as I'd said originally though, why it is that our news reports on everywhere else except the virus source in terms of how things are happening - that's what I don't understand.

If as we are led to believe, they eradicated the virus through a relatively short, but utterly strict lockdown - why are we not seeing that? Having images of people going about their business as normal, as a result of a lockdown and everyone simply doing what the fuck they were told (instead of looking for reasons not to, like we seem to do), surely that might spur people on to actually do what they are told elsewhere in the world?

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by Russbmw

Oh I think there's a lot that has been hidden - but really the question is as I'd said originally though, why it is that our news reports on everywhere else except the virus source in terms of how things are happening - that's what I don't understand.

If as we are led to believe, they eradicated the virus through a relatively short, but utterly strict lockdown - why are we not seeing that? Having images of people going about their business as normal, as a result of a lockdown and everyone simply doing what the fuck they were told (instead of looking for reasons not to, like we seem to do), surely that might spur people on to actually do what they are told elsewhere in the world?

Because the type of lockdown they needed to pretty much eradicate it wouldn’t happen here.

They weren’t allowed out to exercise, not even to shop most of the time. Food had to be fetched by one person for a group of houses.

And when they did get into back under control they didn’t go on the piss and eat out all summer.

Personally I don’t think there are any secrets or clever ways to control this. They are just stricter. Why wouldn’t they share it with us if there was some quick fix? I certainly don’t believe all the conspiracies about it being a political and economic strategy.

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

It seems to me to be worse than before lockdown one.

I knew hardly anyone that had it last time, just my brother who shares his house with an ICU nurse and one other.

I have a WhatsApp group with just 6 of us on, 2 have it at the same time right now. Live in different towns and not seen each other.

More than the testing results, all the celebs, sportsmen, friends, work colleagues, there’s a lot more now than before. Or at least it seems that way.

[Denis S]

Yesterday I passed IgG test for antibodies (the last time I took the test 02.07.2020).

The value this time was 51.8.
The previous time (2.07.2020 i.e. more than 3 months ago) the value was 16.62.

It turns out that the amount of antibodies in mine increases over time and does not decrease?

[ArthurKing]

Originally Posted by Denis S

Yesterday I passed IgG test for antibodies (the last time I took the test 02.07.2020).

The value this time was 51.8.
The previous time (2.07.2020 i.e. more than 3 months ago) the value was 16.62.

It turns out that the amount of antibodies in mine increases over time and does not decrease?

Ive been toying with an Antibody test, can get one from BUPA near my office in London for £65 but reading up online, they suggest they are not very accurate so I didn't bother.

The fact you got two positives suggest they can be accurate then?

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by Denis S

Yesterday I passed IgG test for antibodies (the last time I took the test 02.07.2020).

The value this time was 51.8.
The previous time (2.07.2020 i.e. more than 3 months ago) the value was 16.62.

It turns out that the amount of antibodies in mine increases over time and does not decrease?

Or you’ve had it twice and just had it again recently?

[Eddamoo]

We cant gain much by looking at China as they do things completely differently.

I have friends there in Guangzhou who told me that masks were mandated at the very start for instance. People get temperature checked in the street (at least 3 checkpoints per mile) and before entering any major building plus you must be carrying their phone and national ID card.

Your phone is tracking your every move (not just P2P bluetooth, but also Location), so the moment someone becomes symptomatic, everyone is immediately notified. Once notified, the police know if you've left home, so people don't! Lockdown is also proper lockdown, no exceptions like shopping trips.

[Denis S]

Originally Posted by ArthurKing

The fact you got two positives suggest they can be accurate then?

The fact is that they are really positive and the value is growing.

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by Denis S

The fact is that they are really positive and the value is growing.

But, antibodiy tests won’t show if you’ve had it twice?

The could have been decreasing in July from an earlier illness. You might have had it again since, asymptotic maybe in September, and they could still be reducing now, not growing.

Or the tests could be completely wrong.

You could have antibodies growing, rather than decreasing, but I don’t thing your two tests prove that conclusively. And most other research is showing they generally decrease.

[pmgreenwood]

Originally Posted by Russbmw

If anyone is going to know or shed some light on how shit went down, it's China, right? They're ahead of the curve by some margin (in my opinion, way more margin than they're letting on....but that's another story).

How many cases over there? What's all the infection rates and age demographic data from the place that is going to be further into this situation than anywhere else?

Heard on the news last night we're not starting trials on people deliberately infecting them to try shed light on how the virus works. No-one else in the world done this already, who have a few months headstart on the UK?

Why is there radio silence and why are the WHO (and the world leaders) not pushing to find out what's going on, and (more importantly) why are China not offering this information freely?

I have my own views on this, but would be interested to hear other peoples.

The Chinese live in a completely different culture. The Virus is far earlier to control in a police state without freedom of speech. Any lessons unlikely to be useful for free Western Societies

[ArthurKing]

Originally Posted by pmgreenwood

The Chinese live in a completely different culture. The Virus is far earlier to control in a police state without freedom of speech. Any lessons unlikely to be useful for free Western Societies

Agreed, I don't think we can take lessons from them unless we want to adopt their police state stance which really would not work here.

I would like to be as far from China in terms of their government policies as possible, no interest in living the same way they are governed thanks.

Government force is not going to work in the UK, the population won't have it.

[Denis S]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

You could have antibodies growing, rather than decreasing, but I don’t thing your two tests prove that conclusively. And most other research is showing they generally decrease.

I can not judge about the other research, in this case - this research of my body.
In any case - I'm not likely to have been ill twice and both times - virtually asymptomatic. As far as I know, in the world - a few cases (very rare) re-infection.