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      07-14-2019, 12:54 AM   #45
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This is great fun, but the real question is : how are a bunch of political ass clowns going to fix THE EARTH. These are the same people that can't fix health care , fix immigration or balance a budget, let alone cure cancer , or stop climate change. It's just one big money grab by the same crooks that have been picking our pockets for decades.
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      07-14-2019, 01:08 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twt View Post
This is great fun, but the real question is : how are a bunch of political ass clowns going to fix THE EARTH. These are the same people that can't fix health care , fix immigration or balance a budget, let alone cure cancer , or stop climate change. It's just one big money grab by the same crooks that have been picking our pockets for decades.
Exactly you sir win a cookie
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      07-14-2019, 07:31 AM   #47
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this seems like a good time to remind everyone that today, July 14, 2019, is the Second Anniversary of the End of the World, just as predicted by Prince Charles in 2007.
i suspect that AOC, not to mention many Forum Members, may have let this important date pass, ummmmm, unnoticed.
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      07-14-2019, 08:26 AM   #48
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Al Gore across the pond is proven as wrong as half-wit Al is.
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      07-14-2019, 09:14 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c1pher View Post
There you go. If it is so complicated no simple person can understand it, as you have pointed out I am, and you are incapable of explaining it, you have a severe marketing problem.
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php...ities-updated/

No, perhaps you have a reading/comprehension problem. A reasonably intelligent 12 year old could figure this out.

We conservatives rail on Democrats being hopelessly uninformed in areas we deem important. But (and the majority of my friends are conservative) Conservatives in certain areas are all like birds of a feather that flock together. I actually find it it interesting and sad. My live revolves around learning 100%..music, science, handgun instruction, American History, WWII, ancient History, Bible study. I live for it. To close one's mind is sad.

Socrates got it right 2500 years ago..."know thyself" so I would say..as long as you do then things like denying GW are minor. And BTW I understand DemocRats are playing to this issue and wasting everyone's time and money. It can't be fixed...its gone too far. So at least don't lump me in that bag of coal.
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      07-14-2019, 09:26 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc100 View Post
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php...ities-updated/

No, perhaps you have a reading/comprehension problem. A reasonably intelligent 12 year old could figure this out.

We conservatives rail on Democrats being hopelessly uninformed in areas we deem important. But (and the majority of my friends are conservative) Conservatives in certain areas are all like birds of a feather that flock together. I actually find it it interesting and sad. My live revolves around learning 100%..music, science, handgun instruction, American History, WWII, ancient History, Bible study. I live for it. To close one's mind is sad.

Socrates got it right 2500 years ago..."know thyself" so I would say..as long as you do then things like denying GW are minor. And BTW I understand DemocRats are playing to this issue and wasting everyone's time and money. It can't be fixed...its gone too far. So at least don't lump me in that bag of coal.
That’s the second time you’ve linked this 15-year-old article. But the OP’s post and the article it references suggest a problem with the model - namely the exclusion of cloud formation as a cause of warming from the models, which has been known for some time, and the possible correction suggested by the authors (and still subject to peer review and replication as is good scientific practice).

Reasonable people can harbor doubts about the solidity of the science and in particular the quality and strength of the modeling. If the models are indeed wrong, or mis-specified, then the conclusions and policy prescriptions are also in error. So while you likely are correct that it is too late to do anything to reverse course, we still can do great damage to our economy by following low-carbon policies. Thus getting the models right still matters.
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      07-15-2019, 12:04 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc100 View Post
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php...ities-updated/

No, perhaps you have a reading/comprehension problem. A reasonably intelligent 12 year old could figure this out.

We conservatives rail on Democrats being hopelessly uninformed in areas we deem important. But (and the majority of my friends are conservative) Conservatives in certain areas are all like birds of a feather that flock together. I actually find it it interesting and sad. My live revolves around learning 100%..music, science, handgun instruction, American History, WWII, ancient History, Bible study. I live for it. To close one's mind is sad.

Socrates got it right 2500 years ago..."know thyself" so I would say..as long as you do then things like denying GW are minor. And BTW I understand DemocRats are playing to this issue and wasting everyone's time and money. It can't be fixed...its gone too far. So at least don't lump me in that bag of coal.
I’m not sure why the constant put downs are in order. Im going to simply agree to disagree with you. And as far as learning goes, I spend most of my time learning as well. My recommendation for you would be to learn why people believe the opposite of your opinion. Maybe you might learn something on top of your other studies.
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      07-15-2019, 12:14 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by adc100 View Post
Its easily proven by the Ratios of Carbon13/Carbon12 ration over the last 10,000 years.

These comments are so simplistic I'll just stop now. Like I said..no one on JoeSixPack boards are reall yinterested in learning. If they were the information is readily available.

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php...ities-updated/
This is not exactly the same.
you still have to prove the relationship between CO2 concentrations in the air and climate change.
And that is much harder.
Then I'd like to discuss if warming would even be a net negative. I can point to vast parts of Earth that might benefit from a little warming. I'd say warning has been pretty good for mankind over the last 20,000 years.
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      07-15-2019, 08:09 AM   #53
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Professor Ian Clark testifies at the Canadian Senate Hearing - December 15, 2011

Ian Clark testifies about CO2 vs historical temp./climate. Of course this gets ignored but this is very interesting.

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      07-15-2019, 11:07 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
Ian Clark testifies about CO2 vs historical temp./climate. Of course this gets ignored but this is very interesting.

remarkably, this has been posted for more than three hours and yet Grumpy has not yet been accused of secretly working for XOM...this may be a new record!
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      07-16-2019, 12:12 PM   #55
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adc100 tell me again about the ice melting and the change in temperature locally there. I can't find it again in the other threads, but I really want to understand that part. It does seem to jive with the science I remember/understand.
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      07-16-2019, 02:31 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Then I'd like to discuss if warming would even be a net negative. I can point to vast parts of Earth that might benefit from a little warming. I'd say warning has been pretty good for mankind over the last 20,000 years.
That is a discussion no politician dares to start.

The main thing I've heard is that for example animals like walrusses, polar bears etc see their habitat shrinking, but climate change goes so slowly that normal species (trees, fish, land animals) can easily migrate at that pace imho.

Oh, I live beneath sea level, so that might be a worry although I've never seen a good investigation what is more expensive: raising the dykes etc or reduce/stop co2 emissions.
from what I can think of, global warming is mainly a problem for mankind (think resetteling parts of populations like farmers, maybe even cities) and not a real problem for the planet and its habitat.
The warmer it gets, the faster things grow

There are plenty timespans in history that the earth was warmer and co2 levels were higher. Who knows, maybe lizards will start to grow exponentially with higher temperatures
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      07-16-2019, 02:37 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twt View Post
This is great fun, but the real question is : how are a bunch of political ass clowns going to fix THE EARTH. These are the same people that can't fix health care , fix immigration or balance a budget, let alone cure cancer , or stop climate change. It's just one big money grab by the same crooks that have been picking our pockets for decades.
Spot on.

Implement sweeping government control and tax citizens into oblivion while making people believe they are helping the environment, win-win.
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      07-16-2019, 04:09 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twt View Post
This is great fun, but the real question is : how are a bunch of political ass clowns going to fix THE EARTH. These are the same people that can't fix health care , fix immigration or balance a budget, let alone cure cancer , or stop climate change. It's just one big money grab by the same crooks that have been picking our pockets for decades.
Ding ding! You can blindly accept everything the most uninformed alarmist says about AGW and still understand that handing DC politicians unfettered power to tax and regulate our carbon-producing activities wouldn’t solve the problem.

What it would do is severely damage our economy, our liberty, and our bank accounts, while massively increasing the power and control of dipshit DC politicians.
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      07-16-2019, 09:42 PM   #59
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So, what is Finland doing about climate change? I imagine they ae part of the big agreement and believe strongly in it? Lupsy-where are you?
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      07-17-2019, 03:05 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
Ian Clark testifies about CO2 vs historical temp./climate. Of course this gets ignored but this is very interesting.

Finally watched the video and I thought it was a very interesting story that he told.
I's partly in line with the conclusions and arguments that finnish guy made in his essay from the topicstart. (but this is coming from a professor in the field of earth studies)

Although what he doesnt mention is that the amount of water vapour (the main greenhouse gas) in the atmosphere is also a result of concentration of other greenhouse gasses in the atmosphere. Water vapour has an atmospheric time of about 10 days whereas other greenhouse gasses can stay in the atmosphere for hundreds of years.
So my understanding is, that if you put more co2 or other greenhouse gasses in the atmosphere, the amount of water vapour also increases, giving it an amplifying effect (where as a net distributor water vapour of course still has the most greenhouse effect).
Whether or not this is build into the enviromental moddeling I dont know. (the finnish study states that could cover isnt moddeled properly)
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Last edited by GuidoK; 07-18-2019 at 05:25 AM..
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      07-18-2019, 04:31 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post
adc100 tell me again about the ice melting and the change in temperature locally there. I can't find it again in the other threads, but I really want to understand that part. It does seem to jive with the science I remember/understand.
Reasonable question for sure. Lets stick with Ice on land like Antarctica and Greenland. It will work with sea ice as well but lets go with this scenario. As land Ice melts it absorbs heat of fusion. This means that air in surrounding areas gets cooler. At the same time heat comes out of the water this will form some additional sea ice.Heat goes from hot to cold. But as the land ice melts the 32 degree water goes into the ocean. This offsets warmer water entering

The net effect is that heat of fusion of melting of ice draws in heat which is the layman's way of saying it "releases cold".

Also as land ice melts the albedo coefficient goes down meaning not as much sunlight is reflected from earth. It is instead converted into infrared wavelength energy which further warms the earth.
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      07-18-2019, 04:35 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twt View Post
This is great fun, but the real question is : how are a bunch of political ass clowns going to fix THE EARTH. These are the same people that can't fix health care , fix immigration or balance a budget, let alone cure cancer , or stop climate change. It's just one big money grab by the same crooks that have been picking our pockets for decades.
They divert your tax dollars into their (family controlled) foundations and spend that money flying around the world and staying in the best hotels and having gala functions where they talk about taxing citizens as much as possible all the while convincing them that they are saving the world.
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      07-20-2019, 04:08 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishbimmer View Post
So, what is Finland doing about climate change? I imagine they ae part of the big agreement and believe strongly in it? Lupsy-where are you?
I guess she is enjoying the hot summer climate

We follow rest of EU with the environmental politics with the exception that we build new nuclear plants. In any case what our 5.5 million people do will not have much effect on global scale, unless we come up with some new technology that we can sell to others...

As for the "new climate study" in the original post it is just some new summary paper made from the same material that this physics (optics) professor has been talking about for ten years or so.
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      07-20-2019, 12:11 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeikei View Post
we build new nuclear plants. In any case what our 5.5 million people do will not have much effect on global scale, unless we come up with some new technology that we can sell to others...
Smart..ours are going away slowly.
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      07-20-2019, 01:54 PM   #65
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Agreed we need more nuclear
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      09-23-2019, 07:59 PM   #66
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