F30POST
F30POST
2012-2015 BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > Technical Forums > N47 and N57 Turbodiesel Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > Crazy oil consumption (1L/2000km) - 318d N47
ARMA SPEED
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      06-27-2021, 12:07 PM   #1
hpopmds
Enlisted Member
2
Rep
35
Posts

Drives: F31
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Portugal

iTrader: (0)

Crazy oil consumption (1L/2000km) - 318d N47

HELP! please. Where can the oil go?
a) No leaks under the car.
b) No smoke in any occasion, and low blowby.
c) Oil burns more on long trips (not in the city).
d) Regens after 100km, and after a regen, soot is rising very quick.
e) Oil is frequently changed and is LL4.

Assuming there's an internal leak causing oil burn, and that the DPF catches the smoke, only the next 3 items are plausible (i think):
1- Turbo leak
2- Piston rings wear
3- Valve seals

Can someone help me please diagnosing?
(my car went to 3 diferent workshosps, including BMW dealer, but they didn't make any test (compression, turbo, etc). They just changed the oil).
Appreciate 0
      06-27-2021, 08:27 PM   #2
FaRKle!
Colonel
United_States
2513
Rep
2,736
Posts

Drives: '17 328d Wagon, '21 M2 Comp
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Bay Area, CA

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
Have you checked the intercooler? That's where a lot of blow by or oil leaking from the turbo will collect.
Appreciate 1
      06-28-2021, 11:15 AM   #3
hpopmds
Enlisted Member
2
Rep
35
Posts

Drives: F31
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Portugal

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by FaRKle! View Post
Have you checked the intercooler? That's where a lot of blow by or oil leaking from the turbo will collect.
I only had checked the intercooler hoses inside (not the interccoler itself). There's some oil in there, but i don't have the notion if the quantity is too much.
Can the pression inside the intercooler be enough to push the oil up to the admission (and then burn the oil)?
Appreciate 0
      06-28-2021, 01:39 PM   #4
FaRKle!
Colonel
United_States
2513
Rep
2,736
Posts

Drives: '17 328d Wagon, '21 M2 Comp
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Bay Area, CA

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmendes3 View Post
I only had checked the intercooler hoses inside (not the interccoler itself). There's some oil in there, but i don't have the notion if the quantity is too much.
Can the pression inside the intercooler be enough to push the oil up to the admission (and then burn the oil)?
eugene89us had a really thorough write up of oil leaking past the turbo and collecting in his intercooler.

Some oil in the intercooler will get carried up to the intake manifold by the air rushing through there.
__________________
-328d Wagon Build Log (with helpful reference links)
-My YouTube Channel for some of the best DIYs and in depth information

Please don't PM me for suspension recommendations unless interested in paid private consultations.
Appreciate 1
      06-29-2021, 04:18 AM   #5
hpopmds
Enlisted Member
2
Rep
35
Posts

Drives: F31
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Portugal

iTrader: (0)

Thanks for the great thread of Eugene88us.
I don't have any error codes on Bimmertool.
Is there a way to distinguish if the oil in the intercooler hose comes from the turbo or from blow-by?

btw: i was inspecting the breather hose, and i broke it! The plastic was really crunchy. But i didn't see any dirt inside and it was not so oily/greasy.

- Can the cracked breather hose had afected oil consumption?
- Has the oil evaporated through the breather hose?

I am sorry, but at this time i have so many questions diagnosing this mystery.
(if i can't find directly the problem, i want to eliminate some hypothesis. In the end, i'll get there )

Last edited by hpopmds; 06-29-2021 at 03:05 PM..
Appreciate 0
      06-30-2021, 11:43 AM   #6
eugene89us
First Lieutenant
United_States
199
Rep
316
Posts

Drives: 2018 BMW 328d
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: MS

iTrader: (0)

Thank you both, FaRKle! and hmendes3

As I described in my original thread (and since deleted the oil catch can, that was a nightmare result), I have had zero oil consumption. Usually, oil that collects in the intercooler is most often due to turbo seals leaking. Turbo seals are not "true seals" - they are not fully sealed and any issue with oil OUTFLOW from turbo will result in metal seals coming in contact with oil and leaking it out. Then as it builds in intercooler, it will start going into intake and burning as fuel. Your EGTs will go sky high - you will easily run on EGTs north of 600C even despite no regens happening. Mine got to 700C and there was a plume of smoke. Yours not showing much smoke may be a result of slow leak. Since my PCV got clogged, it created a significant pressure inside the engine, so I actually burned about 1 qt of oil in a matter of days (if not in 1 day alone). So the moral of the story, if turbo seal is leaking, the PCV is your first culprit. I did have some oil in intercooler, but you normally have some oil in intercooler due to PCV system. And our cars have a lot of blowby normally, mine had it from brand new (open oil cap and you will feel the air breaking from the oil cap).

To check if PCV system is culprit (in my unotrhodox way), open the oil cap and clean the old oil. Then put your mouth against the oil fill opening and blow into it. You shoould have minimal resistance and pressure you create should dissipate. Mine has a feeling of delayed dissipation, I think related to how that PCV valve is routed. But you won't have to strain much to hear and feel that PCV is relieving air properly. If you create pressure with your own lungs and it fails to dissipate, that is your major culprit.

But in my opinion, if you had poor compression, surely your car would not run as smoothly. But I guess everything is relative. Your PCV coming into pieces may have had something to do with it, if may have reduced the ability to ventilate somewhat and if I recall correctly, the PCV breathes into the intake BEFORE turbocharger. So that should be an area of low pressure, right, since that is the "sucking portion". Everything past turbo will be blowing portion, so a higher pressure area. I would also think that vacuum, as lot as it may be, may have helped with PCV also. But I am hypothesizing here. Maybe someone else can jump in and correct me if I am wrong. Best of luck, keep us updated!
Appreciate 1
      06-30-2021, 03:08 PM   #7
hpopmds
Enlisted Member
2
Rep
35
Posts

Drives: F31
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Portugal

iTrader: (0)

eugene89us thank you again for your tips
My car stills with good power and perfect idle and MPG, no smoke, no leaks.
I think PCV valve is good because i took out the breather pipe and put a rubber glove. I notice that it has pressure, so i think the valve was opened, and the pressure is beeing released.
Soon i will compare the blow-by with my father's N47 318d that has no oil consumption. Then i can discard piston rings wear, and it will leave me just (i think) with the turbo seals issue (like you said).
The turbo issue is my "bet", because:
- oil consumption only in highway/long trips (high revs)
- no significant oil or dirt on the breather tube
- it all started quickly, after an oil change
- i have almost 200.000km mileage

I have to stop this oil burning because DPF soot quickly rises after a regen, and the regens are getting more frequent.

I will keep the post updated, to help each others.
Appreciate your help and other's contributions.
Thank you guys

Last edited by hpopmds; 07-02-2021 at 03:26 AM..
Appreciate 1
      06-30-2021, 07:23 PM   #8
Enabled
Major
510
Rep
1,093
Posts

Drives: 328xd Wagon, M2 Competition
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Houston

iTrader: (0)

I would inspect inside intercooler as well.

A poorly running crankcase ventilation system can cause oil burning, and running engine at idle doesn't entirely prove it's running well. However you can get good hints from that test.
Appreciate 1
      07-03-2021, 02:12 PM   #9
hpopmds
Enlisted Member
2
Rep
35
Posts

Drives: F31
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Portugal

iTrader: (0)

Update:
Today i went for a short 25 + 25km drive, and i was monitoring soot and regens.
It happens that regen occurred 72km only after last regen.
And soot was going up very quickly again.
I sure have some DPF problem, but let me understand :
a) Can the DPF clough cause oil consumption?
or
b) Can the oil burn cause DPF problems?
How can i distinguish? (i am sad with this car)
Appreciate 0
      07-03-2021, 07:30 PM   #10
Enabled
Major
510
Rep
1,093
Posts

Drives: 328xd Wagon, M2 Competition
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Houston

iTrader: (0)

I would guess you are burning the oil through the intake and the extra rich burn mixture is depositing more soot onto DPF.
Appreciate 1
      07-04-2021, 02:45 PM   #11
hpopmds
Enlisted Member
2
Rep
35
Posts

Drives: F31
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Portugal

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enabled View Post
I would guess you are burning the oil through the intake and the extra rich burn mixture is depositing more soot onto DPF.
HI Enabled, and friends. I just came out from inspecting the intake (tube from intercooler to intake). I see a little bit of oil on the junction, but i passed my finger in the interior surface of the pipe and i didn't catch oil (just a little little little coat).
My guess: the turbo isn't leaking from the cold side.

So, the main issue, OIL CONSUMPTION, might have been reduced to : turbo hot side leak, or piston rings. (never forgetting the DPF increased regens, cause or effect).

I'm not a mechanic, but i'm a unquiet mind and if i can't find directly the problem, i want to eliminate 1 by 1 all the 500 possible causes

I love BMW, it's my cars for 23 years, and i think the problem is triggered by a little unknown thing.
Appreciate 0
      07-09-2021, 12:24 AM   #12
Tommi_Mav
Private
Greece
24
Rep
63
Posts

Drives: F32 435dx
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Greece

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
hmendes3,

After reading your findings and since you said the car has more than 200K Km, when was the last time you had your turbo serviced?

My guess is you have oil leak from the turbo seals and it's highly possible problem will be solved with a turbo service.

I had a similar problem with my older Opel Astra 1.6 Turbo. The engine was from a full rebuild at 155K Km (not including turbo) and even then I had similar oil consumption. It got worse to the point that I had to add 1lt/500Km. I rebuilt the turbo and after that, all is ok.
IMHO, any turbo should be serviced after 120K-150K Km (depending on driving style and engine cold-start/hot-stop routine), even just for precautionary reasons.
Appreciate 1
      07-16-2021, 05:50 AM   #13
hpopmds
Enlisted Member
2
Rep
35
Posts

Drives: F31
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Portugal

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommi_Mav View Post
hmendes3,

After reading your findings and since you said the car has more than 200K Km, when was the last time you had your turbo serviced?

My guess is you have oil leak from the turbo seals and it's highly possible problem will be solved with a turbo service.

I had a similar problem with my older Opel Astra 1.6 Turbo. The engine was from a full rebuild at 155K Km (not including turbo) and even then I had similar oil consumption. It got worse to the point that I had to add 1lt/500Km. I rebuilt the turbo and after that, all is ok.
IMHO, any turbo should be serviced after 120K-150K Km (depending on driving style and engine cold-start/hot-stop routine), even just for precautionary reasons.
Hi. Did your turbo problem made the car blowing smoke? (mine hasn't any)
I think my turbo still is original, so 200 k km it's time.
Appreciate 0
      07-16-2021, 09:11 AM   #14
Tommi_Mav
Private
Greece
24
Rep
63
Posts

Drives: F32 435dx
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Greece

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmendes3 View Post
Hi. Did your turbo problem made the car blowing smoke? (mine hasn't any)
I think my turbo still is original, so 200 k km it's time.
I had no smoke from the exhaust. I occasionally had some smoke from the front of the engine, but it was random. The only thing was that I had a burnt oil smell in the cabin when driving with windows down or with the heater on.

200K Km are a lot for an unserviced turbo, so a service would be good even if the turbo isn't the problem.
Appreciate 1
      07-16-2021, 09:59 AM   #15
Enabled
Major
510
Rep
1,093
Posts

Drives: 328xd Wagon, M2 Competition
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Houston

iTrader: (0)

Although the Euro N47 got a different turbo, the US Garrett turbos easily go past 250k km and more without service.
200k turbo service is unusual to me.
Appreciate 1
      07-16-2021, 10:49 AM   #16
andreigbs
Dr Drei
United_States
43
Rep
142
Posts

Drives: X3d
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: WI

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
'16 X3d  [0.00]
After these most recent details, I don't think the turbo is faulty.

You may have a small leak somewhere, if you can smell it in the cabin. It means the oil is coming into contact with hot surfaces, so I would check all around and under the hood after a decently hard drive.
__________________
X3 x28d // 72xxx miles // 36 MPG // Motul 8100 X-Clean+ 5w30
GLK250 // 123xxx miles // 34 MPG // Mobil1 ESP 5w30
FJ-09 // 4,xxx miles // 49 MPG // Castrol 4T Power 10w40
Appreciate 1
      07-16-2021, 03:52 PM   #17
Tommi_Mav
Private
Greece
24
Rep
63
Posts

Drives: F32 435dx
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Greece

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreigbs View Post
After these most recent details, I don't think the turbo is faulty.

You may have a small leak somewhere, if you can smell it in the cabin. It means the oil is coming into contact with hot surfaces, so I would check all around and under the hood after a decently hard drive.
hmendes3 doesn't have these signs in his case.

I had them on my second car, an Opel/Vauxhall Astra 1.6 turbo. I had the turbo overhauled and problem was solved.
Appreciate 1
      07-21-2021, 08:57 AM   #18
valternf
New Member
0
Rep
5
Posts

Drives: BMW 420D Convertible
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Lisbon

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommi_Mav View Post
I had no smoke from the exhaust. I occasionally had some smoke from the front of the engine, but it was random. The only thing was that I had a burnt oil smell in the cabin when driving with windows down or with the heater on.

200K Km are a lot for an unserviced turbo, so a service would be good even if the turbo isn't the problem.
Same here. Good to know.
Appreciate 0
      07-22-2021, 12:25 PM   #19
Lazlo
Registered
Romania
0
Rep
3
Posts

Drives: BMW F31
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Bucuresti

iTrader: (0)

Hello ,

I have the same problem with the oil consumtion :
-no leaks
-no smoke
- engine start and runs fine .

I have some oil in the breather tube , nothing in the intercooler .
Brand new valve seals , turbo was inspectet and no leaks , the only remaining is the oil rings.
The car has 170k km and she drinks 1l/1200 km . -318d n47

I think the only solution for me is a engine rebuild
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2021, 08:12 AM   #20
hpopmds
Enlisted Member
2
Rep
35
Posts

Drives: F31
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Portugal

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazlo View Post
Hello ,

I have the same problem with the oil consumtion :
-no leaks
-no smoke
- engine start and runs fine .

I have some oil in the breather tube , nothing in the intercooler .
Brand new valve seals , turbo was inspectet and no leaks , the only remaining is the oil rings.
The car has 170k km and she drinks 1l/1200 km . -318d n47

I think the only solution for me is a engine rebuild
Do you mean Piston rings?
Yeah, that's frustrating when we can't even find the problem (not even in the workshop). Best luck. Keep us updated with your findings.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:20 AM.




f30post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST