[cxp213]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

If you're doing this procedure with the car hooked up to ISTAD, it won't let you proceed on the ABL procedure until the temperature sensor in the transmission is within its specified range.

Good to know, thanks.
I'm not planning on hooking my car up to anything and was thinking to simply drain/replace the oil/pan/filter then do the leveling procedure.

[F30ed]

Originally Posted by 1

+1
Originally Posted by insanecoder View Post
However alot of the specifics are BS.. for example how much will transmission fluid actually expand given a 10 degree (even 50 degree) difference in temp given the coefficcient of expansion of oil? Then any expansion level over the large surface area of the pan would also make any level negligible.. then why would any engineer design a tranny with such sensitivity to pan fluid level over such a large surfacearea.. its complete BS.

Hard to argue. For instance engine oil volumetric expansion is 0.00070 per 1 degree. This means 10º error will give 0.0007*10=0.007 volume change, which is for 5 liters will be 35 mililiters - slightly over 1 oz. This volume when spread over the surface of 2x4 feet (pan size probably) will give you raise of level ... you got it. I am sure uneven level of the car lift will influence level more than temperature expansion.

Where the temperature is important - viscosity. When it is too cold, it may not fill components properly.

[ntvnyer]

I have been reading this thread with interest as I am about to service the trans on my 2014 328 GT. His is the fluid repalcaed, is a pump used or is it gravity fed from up top? Thanks!

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by ntvnyer

I have been reading this thread with interest as I am about to service the trans on my 2014 328 GT. His is the fluid repalcaed, is a pump used or is it gravity fed from up top? Thanks!

Gravity feed will not work. You need a transfer pump of some sort.

I used this:

https://www.motiveproducts.com/colle...-1-gallon-tank

[bhushon1]

There is an alternative to either the BMW or the ZF ATF. Liqui-Moly's Top Tec 1800 ATF was specifically formulated for the ZF 6HP19/26/32 AND the 8HP45/55/70/90 transmissions. You can order it from Napa in the US for $11.49/liter I've attached link to the info sheet on Liqui-Moly's website and also pasted the URL from Napa.

https://pim.liqui-moly.de/pidoc/P000...00-41.0-en.pdf

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/AOCLM20032

[SXX360]

Originally Posted by bhushon1

There is an alternative to either the BMW or the ZF ATF. Liqui-Moly's Top Tec 1800 ATF was specifically formulated for the ZF 6HP19/26/32 AND the 8HP45/55/70/90 transmissions. You can order it from Napa in the US for $11.49/liter I've attached link to the info sheet on Liqui-Moly's website and also pasted the URL from Napa.

https://pim.liqui-moly.de/pidoc/P000...00-41.0-en.pdf

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/AOCLM20032

Good to know, I'm all for supporting the local Napa owners. I've heard that Liqui-Moly is good stuff, just have never used it.

I'm also thinking I will do the rear differential at the same time, anyone have a recommendation for what to use there?

[Marlinman]

what is the consensus on this? Have most of you forgone the computer re-calibration? And who actually waited until the temps came down before topping up?

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Marlinman

what is the consensus on this? Have most of you forgone the computer re-calibration? And who actually waited until the temps came down before topping up?

It's best to have a shop perform the work. Just buy the kit online (Pan and ZF fluid). Keep your receipts so you'd have a better chance of getting BMW to goodwill a replacement if you have a problem before you reach 100k miles.

When the ATF gets replaced maybe twice in the vehicles lifetime there's zero justification for not using OE (eg ZF) fluid. Saving $40 isn't worth it

[Bali]

Just completed a full ATF exchange on the wife’s 2013 X1 sDrive2.8i. This was not simply a 4.5 quart drain and fill. The old fluid was pumping out of the ATF cooler pressure line into a large catch container while new fluid was pumped into the fill port on the AT by an electric oil pump. Luckily both fluid rates were about the same.

Here are the steps I followed:

- Put the car up on four jackstands so it was level and high enough for me to crawl under and work. Set the parking brake to prevent rear wheel turn.

- Cracked open the fill plug at the rear right of the AT.

- Opened the drain plug on the AT pan and drained the ATF into a container.

- Replaced the AT pan with a new one and torqued the bolts to spec. Bought the kit (including new bolts) at FCP Euro.
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...zf-24118612901

- Removed the fill plug and pumped new Valvoline MaxLife Multi-Vehicle ATF in until it started dripping out. It states it’s ZF LifeGuard 8 compatible.
https://sharena21.springcm.com/Publi...2-ac162d889bd1
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Valvoline...allon/15125768

- Disconnected the pressure line at the ATF cooler and pushed a 9/16” OD PCV hose into that line and routed it into a large catch container. It fit snug enough, but I also wrapped some duct tape around the connection for good measure. Capped off the open ATF cooler port.

- A helper started the engine, ran it up to 2k RPM for about 5 seconds to fill the TC, then let it idle while moving the AT gear selector into R, D, 1, 2, 3, etc. All this was happening while I used this electric oil pump with one line in the new ATF jug and the other line held in the AT fill port.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-Motor-O...-/161813526114

- Another helper kept an eye on the old fluid draining out in case it started to bubble due to the ATF sump going empty. They also let us know when the fluid looked clean and new.

- It took about 1 minute to empty a 1-gallon ATF jug into the AT. Then the helper would shut off the engine while I swapped out for a fresh ATF jug.

- We did this three times for a total of three 1-gallon jugs before the fluid coming out the ATF cooler line looked new.

- Reconnected the ATF cooler line.

- Made sure the ATF was warm enough and then followed the ISTA top-off procedure.

- Torqued the fill plug and cleaned up all connections.

Job done!

Total cost: about $200

3 gallons of Valvoline MaxLife Multi-Vehicle ATF from Walmart @ $18 each
1 AT filter kit from FCP Euro @ $150
1 electric oil pump with lines from ebay: $20

[Busa1]

Originally Posted by BaliDawg

Just completed a full ATF exchange on the wife's 2013 X1 sDrive2.8i. This was not simply a 4.5 quart drain and fill. The old fluid was pumping out of the ATF cooler pressure line into a large catch container while new fluid was pumped into the fill port on the AT by an electric oil pump. Luckily both fluid rates were about the same.

Here are the steps I followed:

- Put the car up on four jackstands so it was level and high enough for me to crawl under and work. Set the parking brake to prevent rear wheel turn.

- Cracked open the fill plug at the rear right of the AT.

- Opened the drain plug on the AT pan and drained the ATF into a container.

- Replaced the AT pan with a new one and torqued the bolts to spec. Bought the kit (including new bolts) at FCP Euro.
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...zf-24118612901

- Removed the fill plug and pumped new Valvoline MaxLife Multi-Vehicle ATF in until it started dripping out. It states it's ZF LifeGuard 8 compatible.
https://sharena21.springcm.com/Publi...2-ac162d889bd1
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Valvoline...allon/15125768

- Disconnected the pressure line at the ATF cooler and pushed a 9/16" OD PCV hose into that line and routed it into a large catch container. It fit snug enough, but I also wrapped some duct tape around the connection for good measure. Capped off the open ATF cooler port.

- A helper started the engine, ran it up to 2k RPM for about 5 seconds to fill the TC, then let it idle while moving the AT gear selector into R, D, 1, 2, 3, etc. All this was happening while I used this electric oil pump with one line in the new ATF jug and the other line held in the AT fill port.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-Motor-O...-/161813526114

- Another helper kept an eye on the old fluid draining out in case it started to bubble due to the ATF sump going empty. They also let us know when the fluid looked clean and new.

- It took about 1 minute to empty a 1-gallon ATF jug into the AT. Then the helper would shut off the engine while I swapped out for a fresh ATF jug.

- We did this three times for a total of three 1-gallon jugs before the fluid coming out the ATF cooler line looked new.

- Reconnected the ATF cooler line.

- Made sure the ATF was warm enough and then followed the ISTA top-off procedure.

- Torqued the fill plug and cleaned up all connections.

Job done!

Total cost: about $200

3 gallons of Valvoline MaxLife Multi-Vehicle ATF from Walmart @ $18 each
1 AT filter kit from FCP Euro @ $150
1 electric oil pump with lines from ebay: $20

How many miles on the car? I have 30k on mine and was thinking of just replacing the tranny fluid.

[Bali]

Originally Posted by Busa1

How many miles on the car? I have 30k on mine and was thinking of just replacing the tranny fluid.

48k miles on her X1. Been planning this since around 35k. It took a bit of preparation, but I had done the same with previous E39 and E46 cars.

[montr]

Originally Posted by BaliDawg

48k miles on her X1. Been planning this since around 35k. It took a bit of preparation, but I had done the same with previous E39 and E46 cars.

Any difference in the transmission shift from ZF fluid to Valvoline MaxLife fluid?

Did you reset the transmission adaptation using a scantool?

[montr]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

Gravity feed will not work. You need a transfer pump of some sort.

I used this:

https://www.motiveproducts.com/colle...-1-gallon-tank

I replaced recently the pan and ATF fluid on my E90 335d. I used a funnel connected to a long flexible tube (from Lowes or Home Depot). I put the funnel in the engine bay and routed the tubing to the fill port of the transmission. This allowed me to fill the transmission by gravity while engine was running.

[EvenKeel]

I'm at 75,000 miles and am terrified of having the fluid changed on my 8HP45. Every place I go to (including the local dealer) tells me they are happy to perform the service but will take zero responsibility for an issues post fluid replacement i.e. clutch packs start to slip etc.

Please give me your honest thoughts.

I'm not in a position to pay $5-7K for a replacemy tranny; should things go south.

I do intend to keep the vehicle for 10 yrs; so am keen on prolonging the life of the transmission.

[123Britt]

When changing the fluid only 5qt are removed and the torque converter holds 2 qts . So 2 qts remain holding the small particles of super fine metals which actually help an older transmission maintain its integrity.

.

However - do NOT hook the car up to a flush machine.


Do a traditional pan replacement and drain & ask the indy how they will ensure the proper fill using AT oil temp.

.

I recommend Lifeguard fluid & ZF Pan -- FWIW

Change between 60 - 75k is in the good range

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by EvenKeel

I'm at 75,000 miles and am terrified of having the fluid changed on my 8HP45. Every place I go to (including the local dealer) tells me they are happy to perform the service but will take zero responsibility for an issues post fluid replacement i.e. clutch packs start to slip etc.

Please give me your honest thoughts.

I'm not in a position to pay $5-7K for a replacemy tranny; should things go south.

I do intend to keep the vehicle for 10 yrs; so am keen on prolonging the life of the transmission.

First, there are a ton of parts that are going to need replacement over the next ten years so I wouldn't assume that you're going to want to spend the money to have them replaced rather than unload the car. Besides, life gets in the way.

Second, ZF has a 100k mile change interval for normal driving and a "severe service" interval of 45-65k miles. So you're in between that.

Third, sometimes neglected AT's develop shift problems after a fluid change (especially when a flush is performed). The shop gets blamed when it's actually in the owner. The units of today adapt on the fly to the new fluid so this issue should occur less and less. What little UOA's there are on ZF fluid show that it can go for 70k miles.

Doing a pan drop as recommended by ZF should not cause and issues.


Just use ZF fluid and parts.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

First, there are a ton of parts that are going to need replacement over the next ten years so I wouldn't assume that you're going to want to spend the money to have them replaced rather than unload the car. Besides, life gets in the way.

Second, ZF has a 100k mile change interval for normal driving and a "severe service" interval of 45-65k miles. So you're in between that.

Third, sometimes neglected AT's develop shift problems after a fluid change (especially when a flush is performed). The shop gets blamed when it's actually in the owner. The units of today adapt on the fly to the new fluid so this issue should occur less and less. What little UOA's there are on ZF fluid show that it can go for 70k miles.

Doing a pan drop as recommended by ZF should not cause and issues.


Just use ZF fluid and parts.

Just found this thread, so is there a link to ZF's 100k miles service interval for normal driving conditions?

[CarlosC]

Originally Posted by EvenKeel

I'm at 75,000 miles and am terrified of having the fluid changed on my 8HP45. Every place I go to (including the local dealer) tells me they are happy to perform the service but will take zero responsibility for an issues post fluid replacement i.e. clutch packs start to slip etc.

Please give me your honest thoughts.

I'm not in a position to pay $5-7K for a replacemy tranny; should things go south.

I do intend to keep the vehicle for 10 yrs; so am keen on prolonging the life of the transmission.

I had mine done at around 80k miles... no issues. Bought everything from FCPEuro.

[n00bkiller944]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

Third, sometimes neglected AT's develop shift problems after a fluid change (especially when a flush is performed). The shop gets blamed when it's actually in the owner. The units of today adapt on the fly to the new fluid so this issue should occur less and less. What little UOA's there are on ZF fluid show that it can go for 70k miles.

Just use ZF fluid and parts.

When I do this on my car I plan to do a UOA just for giggles. I will report back to you all when I do. Planning to do around 50k. currently at 46k.

[EvenKeel]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

First, there are a ton of parts that are going to need replacement over the next ten years so I wouldn't assume that you're going to want to spend the money to have them replaced rather than unload the car. Besides, life gets in the way.

Second, ZF has a 100k mile change interval for normal driving and a "severe service" interval of 45-65k miles. So you're in between that.

Third, sometimes neglected AT's develop shift problems after a fluid change (especially when a flush is performed). The shop gets blamed when it's actually in the owner. The units of today adapt on the fly to the new fluid so this issue should occur less and less. What little UOA's there are on ZF fluid show that it can go for 70k miles.

Doing a pan drop as recommended by ZF should not cause and issues.


Just use ZF fluid and parts.

From my Indy shop:

"We are capable of doing it. I'm assuming my employees are trying to look out for your best interest and don't want something to get worse by changing the fluid.

I'm happy to do it just don't want to be liable if the clutches slip or something happens after fluid change that we wouldn't have control of."

How does one get comfortable taking this type of risk on an $8K piece of hardware???

Polo08816 performed the fluid change. He's now had his tranny replaced under warranty at 97K miles. Had he not been covered under warranty; he'd be looking at an $8K bill. I'm not saying his tranny failed because he changed the fluid. However, I don't think he can unequivocally say that it didn't fail because of the fluid change, either.

[insanecoder]

Originally Posted by EvenKeel

From my Indy shop:

"We are capable of doing it. I'm assuming my employees are trying to look out for your best interest and don't want something to get worse by changing the fluid.

I'm happy to do it just don't want to be liable if the clutches slip or something happens after fluid change that we wouldn't have control of."

How does one get comfortable taking this type of risk on an $8K piece of hardware???

Polo08816 performed the fluid change. He's now had his tranny replaced under warranty at 97K miles. Had he not been covered under warranty; he'd be looking at an $8K bill. I'm not saying his tranny failed because he changed the fluid. However, I don't think he can unequivocally say that it didn't fail because of the fluid change, either.

I dunno the circumstances under Polo08816's tranny fail (and would like to hear the details)
but I guarantee you one thing..
if you don't replace the tranny fluid at reasonable intervals
your sludge buildup will guarantee your tranny fails

BMW doesn't make these units and even ZF (the manufacturer) suggests every 60k miles on change
keep in mind in the good ole dayz tranny oil was changed much much earlier
synth oils have improved since BUT are not IMMORTAL

caveat: if you've let the tranny go over 90k (which already sounds ridiculous to me) or so without tranny fluid changes.. yes you may be risking some failure
the point is to not get to that point

[EvenKeel]

Originally Posted by insanecoder

I dunno the circumstances under Polo08816's tranny fail (and would like to hear the details)
but I guarantee you one thing..
if you don't replace the tranny fluid at reasonable intervals
your sludge buildup will guarantee your tranny fails

BMW doesn't make these units and even ZF (the manufacturer) suggests every 60k miles on change
keep in mind in the good ole dayz tranny oil was changed much much earlier
synth oils have improved since BUT are not IMMORTAL

caveat: if you've let the tranny go over 90k (which already sounds ridiculous to me) or so without tranny fluid changes.. yes you may be risking some failure
the point is to not get to that point

What's even more pathetic is the local BMW dealer takes the exact same position - "BMW states that the fluid is a Lifetime fill. we'll change the fluid for you; but if something goes wrong with the tranny thereafter, we will not be responsible for it, nor will we cover it under your extended warranty". In fact, I think they even try to get you to sign something agreeing to this; before they perform the fluid change.

It's a total effing crapshoot. The view of the Indy shop is that these trannys fail between 150-200K anyway; whether you change the fluid or not; so why take the risk.