[Apl440i or 335d?]

I've had BMW's for many years. (this is my first x Drive) all have been RWD M Sport or Sport models.

I have never gotten stuck.

I remember when I used to commute from Guildford to Portsmouth, about five/ six years ago when we had the terrible snow storms. I made it to work with little drama. The only problem was the A3 being closed through Guildford, so I had to take to the back roads.

So in short, no.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Pablo68

One of the problems in the UK is that winter tyres perform worse than all season or even good quality summer tyres, even in the wet, if the road surface is above about 6 degree C...and in the UK that is most of the time.

One of the problems that concerns me, is we see braking performance tests typically on new scrubbed in tyres. To me that is flawed, as what is more important is at part tread depths. Try and fine tests with partially worn tyres.

Many drivers still drive in winter with minimum thread depth, I see it up here, loads do it even on high performance cars, barely 2mm of tread on a summer tyre with shoulders all knocked off. In fact it scares me that these same drivers are overtaking in the wet, often at high speeds. Whereas the typical winter tyre driver will replace his tyres around 4mm. That is for me where we ought to be seeing tests conducted, show drivers the real facts on braking in the wet.

Which is the safest? I know which I prefer in winter conditions, even if there debate around 'exact' temperatures for new tyres.

HighlandPete

[r1cey]

Originally Posted by Pablo68

Only if you can't drive.

I spent plenty of time driving round Cumbria/Northumbria in the depths of winter in a 300bhp tuned FWD vRS on Vredestien Sesantas summer tyres without crashing/dying/driving into things and I'm no driving God, so all this talk of needing AWD and winter rubber etc for 6 months in anywhere on our sceptered isle except the Scottish highlands is just guff to cover poor driving ability IMHO

(example of conditions below and that was one of the much better days ).

Totally agree.

My last car was a BMW X3 2.0D SE, which I had for six and a half years. I was on my third set of tyres when I traded in for The F30. Had pirelli scorpions on the car throughout, but never realised there were summer and all season versions of this tyre, so the middle set were "accidentally" summers, but those were still unflappable in the bad winter we got a few years back, easily coping with the 8" - 12" of snow that remained where we live for about 2 weeks. Not once did my car squirm about like the 4x4 in that video, and that included travelling up a steep hills, round corners, etc.
Apart from last year where we got hardly any snow, the previous few years made me realise how good the BMW X-Drive system is.

[teaston]

Originally Posted by Apl335d

I've had BMW's for many years. (this is my first x Drive) all have been RWD M Sport or Sport models.

I have never gotten stuck.

I remember when I used to commute from Guildford to Portsmouth, about five/ six years ago when we had the terrible snow storms. I made it to work with little drama. The only problem was the A3 being closed through Guildford, so I had to take to the back roads.

So in short, no.

The winter before last i could not get out of my close at all for almost a week! And it is totally flat, no hill at all!

[....,,,,..,,..]

2 winters back, we had a trip up to Manchester, with our technical buyer, director and me, in the buyers new Mercedes auto.

We had a bit of snow, light covering and we could not get up the small bank to the company we were visiting.

Queue red faced buyer and 3 people walking up bank in the snow lol.

Funny as ...

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by teaston

TYRE temperature is what's most important, as the whole point of Winter tyres is the rubber stays softer at lower temperatures!

Anyone seem the little demo sampler BMW have produced? Two rubber discs set in a plastic tray, one of summer tyre compound the other winter tyre compound. My dealer had one in the drinks fridge, sat at around 5 degrees. You can clearly feel the difference.

If anyone thinks that little BMW demo could be a staged test, a couple of winters ago I parked next to a friend during icing conditions. He noticed my winter tyres and asked if they really were a softer compound than summer tyres when it was cold. I suggested he just rub his finger around the tread. Mine were like a soft eraser, his summer tyres were like hard plastic.

The other factor... tyres, in damp to wet conditions, may not even heat up. I've used an infrared thermometer on my tyres and even at temperatures above 7C there can be virtually no increase in temperature after driving over 10 miles. Maybe 1-2 degrees increase above ambient.

HighlandPete

[r1cey]

Originally Posted by teaston

..............as the whole point of Winter tyres is the rubber stays softer at lower temperatures.

Exactly, so how is that test they conducted relevant?

My understanding, is that winter tyres remain softer at lower temperatures, due to the compound, so more effective in the winter time, so how can (what appears to be) a skid facility replicate the differences between a summer and winter tyre at low temperature?

[....,,,,..,,..]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Anyone seem the little demo sampler BMW have produced? Two rubber discs set in a plastic tray, one of summer tyre compound the other winter tyre compound. My dealer had one in the drinks fridge, sat at around 5 degrees. You can clearly feel the difference.

If anyone thinks that little BMW demo could be a staged test, a couple of winters ago I parked next to a friend during icing conditions. He noticed my winter tyres and asked if they really were a softer compound than summer tyres when it was cold. I suggested he just rub his finger around the tread. Mine were like a soft eraser, his summer tyres were like hard plastic.

The other factor... tyres, in damp to wet conditions, may not even heat up. I've used an infrared thermometer on my tyres and even at temperatures above 7C there can be virtually no increase in temperature after driving over 10 miles. Maybe 1-2 degrees increase above ambient.

HighlandPete

The other bit is the snow or ice compacted into the more stiff non winter tyres and that people fail to clear tyre treads before driving off.
L

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by r1cey

Totally agree.

My last car was a BMW X3 2.0D SE, which I had for six and a half years. I was on my third set of tyres when I traded in for The F30. Had pirelli scorpions on the car throughout, but never realised there were summer and all season versions of this tyre, so the middle set were "accidentally" summers, but those were still unflappable in the bad winter we got a few years back, easily coping with the 8" - 12" of snow that remained where we live for about 2 weeks. Not once did my car squirm about like the 4x4 in that video, and that included travelling up a steep hills, round corners, etc.
Apart from last year where we got hardly any snow, the previous few years made me realise how good the BMW X-Drive system is.

But your experience is based on an xdrive vehicle and the question is regarding a 3 series.... Not really very comparable

[Pablo68]

Cheap ditch-finder winter tyres (and let's be honest majority of people who buy winters go for the cheapest they can) and even some mid range winters are utter garbage and far far worse than a decent set of all seasons or summer rubber in almost any weather we get in the UK (south of Edinburgh). If it's that bad put some snow shoes (car ones that is) in your boot and use them to get out of drifts/up snowy hills, otherwise just driver to the conditions. I don't care what rubber you have on or how many wheels put traction down drive like a bell end for the conditions and you'll go bang.

You really, really don't need them in the south of England or the Midlands, just invest in good all seasons. But hey ho if you'd rather spend money on pointless cheap rubber that will clog up your garage most of the year your choice

I guess it's like spending a fortune on cleaning products and spending hours detailing a car that will be covered in road crud and rain next time it moves...if that's what floats your boat

[HighlandPete]

Any mention of winter tyres and we always get into the debate of some not needing them, even in snow.

Can I ask a simple question... Have any of you guys who can do without, actually tried summer and winter tyres, on the same car, same day, same road, same snow and icy conditions? If not, I'd suggest it may be an eye opener, you may have a totally different opinion thereafter.

HighlandPete

[....,,,,..,,..]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Any mention of winter tyres and we always get into the debate of some not needing them, even in snow.

Can I ask a simple question... Have any of you guys who can do without, actually tried summer and winter tyres, on the same car, same day, same road, same snow and icy conditions? If not, I'd suggest it may be an eye opener, you may have a totally different opinion thereafter.

HighlandPete

Yes, I have.

However best example I have seen is with my brother in law Aberdeen.

He drives pretty much all over Aberdeenshire including the remote interior bits.

For years he kept same tyres all year, however managed to persuade him to get decent set of winters.

Night and day basically, he admitted he should have changed years ago, he drives a bog standard insignia and a corsa.


The other one is changing 4 tyres that are very worn with brand new tyres, the amazement at the grip and braking you forgot about.

[Pablo68]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Any mention of winter tyres and we always get into the debate of some not needing them, even in snow.

Can I ask a simple question... Have any of you guys who can do without, actually tried summer and winter tyres, on the same car, same day, same road, same snow and icy conditions? If not, I'd suggest it may be an eye opener, you may have a totally different opinion thereafter.

HighlandPete

I have a landrover with very substantial rubber on and have driven it on the same roads as my daily many times in all weathers. Yes the landy gets better grip in the very worst of weather but I have as yet never ditched a car on any rubber regardless of weather as I tend to drive to the conditions (including the car). Would I take a 300+hp RWD saloon on snow and ice? nope be mad. But how often are English roads covered in snow and ice (Especially main roads in the south and midlands)?

As I said up to everyone their choice. Some places will get better use of winters than others. Some really don't need them. But for the love of God if you insist on having winters dont buy cheap ones.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Pablo68

... just invest in good all seasons.

BMW have been marketing the xDrive 3-series as a winter biased car... how many models do they fit with OEM All Season tyres in the UK?

US market gets All Season as OEM. Really giving mixed messages for the UK users.

HighlandPete

[zooberoo]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Any mention of winter tyres and we always get into the debate of some not needing them, even in snow.

Can I ask a simple question... Have any of you guys who can do without, actually tried summer and winter tyres, on the same car, same day, same road, same snow and icy conditions? If not, I'd suggest it may be an eye opener, you may have a totally different opinion thereafter.

HighlandPete

I have tried the same car on the same road in a similar amount snow on both summer and winter tyres.

You are absolutely correct. It is an eye opener. There is no comparison.

[teaston]

Originally Posted by Pablo68

Cheap ditch-finder winter tyres (and let's be honest majority of people who buy winters go for the cheapest they can) and even some mid range winters are utter garbage and far far worse than a decent set of all seasons or summer rubber in almost any weather we get in the UK (south of Edinburgh). If it's that bad put some snow shoes (car ones that is) in your boot and use them to get out of drifts/up snowy hills, otherwise just driver to the conditions. I don't care what rubber you have on or how many wheels put traction down drive like a bell end for the conditions and you'll go bang.

You really, really don't need them in the south of England or the Midlands, just invest in good all seasons. But hey ho if you'd rather spend money on pointless cheap rubber that will clog up your garage most of the year your choice

I guess it's like spending a fortune on cleaning products and spending hours detailing a car that will be covered in road crud and rain next time it moves...if that's what floats your boat

I don't think anyone on this forum would buy cheap tyres! I for one have gone for Dunlop Winter Sport 4D's, one of the top 3 winter tyres available!

And as for snow shoes, i did buy some, but you cannot get them on without jacking the car up on each corner in turn, because the arch gap on BMW's (and many other cars most likely) is too small to get your hand through!

And our car's don't come with a jack! And if you try jacking up your car on a snowy/icy hill it is very likely to slide and fall off the jacks possibly crushing you as you attempt to pull those bloody things over your tyres!

Not to mention the fact that getting out on your hands and knees in cold crappy conditions is far from ideal, plus the chance of other vehicles sliding into you and putting you in hospital or worse!

[Pablo68]

Originally Posted by teaston

I don't think anyone on this forum would buy cheap tyres! I for one have gone for Dunlop Winter Sport 4D's, one of the top 3 winter tyres available!

And as for snow shoes, i did buy some, but you cannot get them on without jacking the car up on each corner in turn, because the arch gap on BMW's (and many other cars most likely) is too small to get your hand through!

And our car's don't come with a jack! And if you try jacking up your car on a snowy/icy hill it is very likely to slide and fall off the jacks possibly crushing you as you attempt to pull those bloody things over your tyres!

Not to mention the fact that getting out on your hands and knees in cold crappy conditions is far from ideal, plus the chance of other vehicles sliding into you and putting you in hospital or worse!

It is more than possible to put snow shoes on a car without jacking it up.

To all those talking about Scotland, and tyre manufacturer snow tests, to quote the OPs original question:

"However, most of my driving is between the south (Oxfordshire/Berkshire) and Midlands (Staffordshire) in the UK, and mostly on motorways and dual carriageways."

Oxford, Berks and Staffs are not notorious for their snowy mountainous passages nor their deep freezing winters. So no, I dont think he really needs winters but thats just my opinion.

[teaston]

Originally Posted by Pablo68

It is more than possible to put snow shoes on a car without jacking it up.

Maybe on a fwd as the gaps are larger on the front.

But i can guarantee you there was 0% chance of getting them on my E90 M Sport!

[....,,,,..,,..]

Originally Posted by Pablo68

It is more than possible to put snow shoes on a car without jacking it up.

To all those talking about Scotland, and tyre manufacturer snow tests, to quote the OPs original question:

"However, most of my driving is between the south (Oxfordshire/Berkshire) and Midlands (Staffordshire) in the UK, and mostly on motorways and dual carriageways."

Oxford, Berks and Staffs are not notorious for their snowy mountainous passages nor their deep freezing winters. So no, I dont think he really needs winters but thats just my opinion.

Staffs can have some really cack winters, 2012 we had a lot of non A roads blocked. Yes M6 and some other dual carriageways are fine, the rest can be pretty naff.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Pablo68

To all those talking about Scotland, and tyre manufacturer snow tests, to quote the OPs original question:

"However, most of my driving is between the south (Oxfordshire/Berkshire) and Midlands (Staffordshire) in the UK, and mostly on motorways and dual carriageways."

Oxford, Berks and Staffs are not notorious for their snowy mountainous passages nor their deep freezing winters. So no, I dont think he really needs winters but thats just my opinion.

I think the biggest problem we have in the UK (and it does apply up here as well), we don't know what a winter will throw at us. Each winter is a gamble, but it is a laugh to see the south come to a standstill with one snowfall.

We've had several bad winters up here, with more cold days than average. Last winter in our highland region we had one of the highest snowfall depths in living memory, on the local mountains, but at lower levels we had hardly any issues with snow on the roads. Could have been so different if wind directions changed.

BTW, I can still see snow in a few places on the mountains as I type. Yes it is still light up here, and it has been a pretty warm these past few days, in the high twenties.

[mgarvey]

Originally Posted by zooberoo

I have tried the same car on the same road in a similar amount snow on both summer and winter tyres.

You are absolutely correct. It is an eye opener. There is no comparison.

+1

I tried winter tyres last year and what a shock! On my way home with them on I immediately noticed that stopping distances were way, way lower (even on a relatively dry road).

We had no snow in the south last year, but we had loads of rain and wet weather performance of a decent set of winter tyres is pretty impressive. One time I hit a sudden flash-flood at 4am. Several inches of fast moving water crossing the road - no way to avoid it and not much time to brake so I had to keep going and pray. I needn't have worried, my winters just cut through it without a hint of aquaplaning. I don't think I would've fared so well with my normal summer tyres.

So to answer the original question, do you really NEED winter tyres in the south of England - probably not. You might be stuck indoors for a couple of days if it snows, but so will everyone else.

Would you go back to summer tyres all year once you've taken the plunge and bought winters? I'd say definitely not, they are a revelation once you've tried them.

[teaston]

Originally Posted by mgarvey

+1

I tried winter tyres last year and what a shock! On my way home with them on I immediately noticed that stopping distances were way, way lower (even on a relatively dry road).

We had no snow in the south last year, but we had loads of rain and wet weather performance of a decent set of winter tyres is pretty impressive. One time I hit a sudden flash-flood at 4am. Several inches of fast moving water crossing the road - no way to avoid it and not much time to brake so I had to keep going and pray. I needn't have worried, my winters just cut through it without a hint of aquaplaning. I don't think I would've fared so well with my normal summer tyres.

So to answer the original question, do you really NEED winter tyres in the south of England - probably not. You might be stuck indoors for a couple of days if it snows, but so will everyone else.

Would you go back to summer tyres all year once you've taken the plunge and bought winters? I'd say definitely not, they are a revelation once you've tried them.

Yep, you wouldn't use hard plastic tyres in summer, so why would you in winter!