[BunkerJ]

Originally Posted by THbimmer

Hi Guys,

New member here from Thailand. I just recently got a stock 2012 320i and in the last 3 months have slapped as much bolts ons as i can on her.

Got a stage 2 e20 remap done by a company in Bangkok Called ProjectA, pushing around 270 hp.

She is fun but im in interested in getting some more out of it! Currently looking at some CP Carrillo Piston and Con rods and a Turbo Upgrade.

This is my first post and thought it was a good thread to introduce myself!!

Hope to speak to you guys more soon.

That's the correct route. There are a couple guys here who are in the process of completing their forged build and could give you pointers as to what all you'll need, but you're getting there.

[THbimmer]

Originally Posted by BunkerJ

That's the correct route. There are a couple guys here who are in the process of completing their forged build and could give you pointers as to what all you'll need, but you're getting there.

Nice will be searching the forums for those builds for sure!! But forged internals are a must!! I am worried pushing 1.5bar boost, Whats considered safe for stock internals ??

A bit over worried at the moment or you could say paranoid haha, i just got rid of a super knocking issue, it was either a leaky injector or a cracked timing chain guide but its sorted now all replaced and fault code free...

[BunkerJ]

Originally Posted by THbimmer

Nice will be searching the forums for those builds for sure!! But forged internals are a must!! I am worried pushing 1.5bar boost, Whats considered safe for stock internals ??

A bit over worried at the moment or you could say paranoid haha, i just got rid of a super knocking issue, it was either a leaky injector or a cracked timing chain guide but its sorted now all replaced and fault code free...

You're fine at 1.5. The turbo and engine can take up to about 24psi before you see issues. I ran 23 psi (1.59 bar) for a while with no imminent issues. Granted, it did speed up the degradation of my turbo in this case, but I was at about 85k miles at that time. Safe range is 21-23psi.

Once you fix her up, she'll hold much more I'm sure.

[THbimmer]

Originally Posted by BunkerJ

You're fine at 1.5. The turbo and engine can take up to about 24psi before you see issues. I ran 23 psi (1.59 bar) for a while with no imminent issues. Granted, it did speed up the degradation of my turbo in this case, but I was at about 85k miles at that time. Safe range is 21-23psi.

Once you fix her up, she'll hold much more I'm sure.

Super knocking issue gone!! was down to a leaky injector and cracked timing chain guide.

Now i am still worrying a bit about the amount of boost i am running... as the 320i stock boost is only 8psi which is allot less compared to your 328i!!!

I do not want to snap a con rod or crack a piston... that is the last thing i need right now!!!

[BunkerJ]

Originally Posted by THbimmer

Super knocking issue gone!! was down to a leaky injector and cracked timing chain guide.

Now i am still worrying a bit about the amount of boost i am running... as the 320i stock boost is only 8psi which is allot less compared to your 328i!!!

I do not want to snap a con rod or crack a piston... that is the last thing i need right now!!!

I can't speak for the 320i 100% because I don't think we have any evidence to base it off of; however, for the 328i most, if not all, con rods being thrown were due to the rod bolts stretching and breaking. The simple fix to push her a little more and give it more safety on the track comes with us replacing the rod bolts with stronger ones. I would assume the 320i pistons/rods are made of the same material and process, but they just come into 320i to make 11:1 vs 10:1 compression like the 328i. I would assume the psi limit of the 320i is roughly similar if not the same as the 328i. Due to your higher compression, keep in mind that you could also take advantage of that and use higher octane gas instead of just ramping up the boost.

[THbimmer]

Originally Posted by BunkerJ

I can't speak for the 320i 100% because I don't think we have any evidence to base it off of; however, for the 328i most, if not all, con rods being thrown were due to the rod bolts stretching and breaking. The simple fix to push her a little more and give it more safety on the track comes with us replacing the rod bolts with stronger ones. I would assume the 320i pistons/rods are made of the same material and process, but they just come into 320i to make 11:1 vs 10:1 compression like the 328i. I would assume the psi limit of the 320i is roughly similar if not the same as the 328i. Due to your higher compression, keep in mind that you could also take advantage of that and use higher octane gas instead of just ramping up the boost.

I am running e20 fuel at the moment... only higher octane fuel i can go is e85... Fuel in Thailand is crap... This is whats available...

E20

E85

Regular 95

Gasohol 91 is 10% ethanol and 90% Gasoline in octane 91

Gasohol 95 is 10% ethanol and 90% Gasoline in octane 95

[ilivas]

Generally higher compression ratio means you’re more limited on boost compared to a lower compression motor. However, you don’t NEED as much boost to make the same power.

[iamnofear]

I am very interested with your MHI upgraded turbo and will going to upgrade soon. Thanks for sharing.

[BunkerJ]

Originally Posted by iamnofear

I am very interested with your MHI upgraded turbo and will going to upgrade soon. Thanks for sharing.

Good to hear! I think you'll enjoy it. It's a well-priced turbo considering how much of it you actually get to use.

[rjd_F30]

Originally Posted by BunkerJ

Good to hear! I think you'll enjoy it. It's a well-priced turbo considering how much of it you actually get to use.

Can you link where you got your MHI turbski from? Not that I'm in the market right now, just want to see.

[JG_Coupe88]

Awesome build BunkerJ, love these kinds of threads. Curious as to what you think since I'm starting out close to how you did. In my 6mt 428i, I got Injen CAI, 435i MPE, and running the Dinan Sport at race mode with our good old San Diego 91 octane. What kind of hp gains do you believe I have on my N20? Certainly feels way better then stock, and she performs well at the track for what she is.

I also have my VRSF HD intercooler and Charge pipe on the way! Excited to put that in, I should feel a little more gain right?

[rjd_F30]

Originally Posted by JG_Coupe88

Awesome build BunkerJ, love these kinds of threads. Curious as to what you think since I'm starting out close to how you did. In my 6mt 428i, I got Injen CAI, 435i MPE, and running the Dinan Sport at race mode with our good old San Diego 91 octane. What kind of hp gains do you believe I have on my N20? Certainly feels way better then stock, and she performs well at the track for what she is.

I also have my VRSF HD intercooler and Charge pipe on the way! Excited to put that in, I should feel a little more gain right?

You're probably at around 290-300 crank. A nice bump from stock. As for the FMIC and CP install, I just did the VRSF HD intercooler, and felt no noticeable bump in power, which is what I expected. Intercoolers aren't really designed for more power, just constant power i.e. eliminating heat soak, to the best of it's abilities. Chargepipe of course will not add power, that's just a durability thing.

[iamnofear]

Originally Posted by BunkerJ

Good to hear! I think you'll enjoy it. It's a well-priced turbo considering how much of it you actually get to use.

Do you have any recommendation upgrade together with the turbo for safety to the engine internals? I'm not going to bump boost higher than 22 psi. engine 20i has higher compression ratio on piston although I believe it has same part as 28i.

[iamnofear]

I found this part in Bimmerworld website and saying this must be replaced if I upgrade the MHI turbo. Also it mentioned that with old part there might be a oil leak.

http://www.bimmerworld.com/Exhaust/B...-X3-X4-Z4.html

[ilivas]

Originally Posted by rjdnyy224

You're probably at around 290-300 crank. A nice bump from stock. As for the FMIC and CP install, I just did the VRSF HD intercooler, and felt no noticeable bump in power, which is what I expected. Intercoolers aren't really designed for more power, just constant power i.e. eliminating heat soak, to the best of it's abilities. Chargepipe of course will not add power, that's just a durability thing.

A fmic is generally a good idea to upgrade when your current intercooler becomes a restriction and isn’t able to flow enough air for your turbo. Upgrading an intercooler when it’s not needed can actually increase lag and cause a small drop in power because of the additional pressure drop.

[rjd_F30]

Originally Posted by ilivas

A fmic is generally a good idea to upgrade when your current intercooler becomes a restriction and isn’t able to flow enough air for your turbo. Upgrading an intercooler when it’s not needed can actually increase lag and cause a small drop in power because of the additional pressure drop.

Yessir. More volume in the FMIC = more space to fill which can lead to lag without the tune to support the FMIC. Just learned that in another thread, forums at their finest . That being said, I've been running an upgraded FMIC on a BM3 stg. 1 for a couple days now while I've been waiting for the time to tackle the DP to go stg. 2, and I noticed absolutely no decrease in low rpm oomph, or any rpm oomph for that matter. That's probably because the VRSF FMIC isn't too too large (still significantly bigger than stock though), so it presents less opportunity for lag. I'm sure if I went with an ER comp intercooler, I'd be feeling that lag.

[BunkerJ]

Originally Posted by rjdnyy224

Can you link where you got your MHI turbski from? Not that I'm in the market right now, just want to see.

http://www.bimmerworld.com/Exhaust/B...-F22-228i.html

Originally Posted by JG_Coupe88

Awesome build BunkerJ, love these kinds of threads. Curious as to what you think since I'm starting out close to how you did. In my 6mt 428i, I got Injen CAI, 435i MPE, and running the Dinan Sport at race mode with our good old San Diego 91 octane. What kind of hp gains do you believe I have on my N20? Certainly feels way better then stock, and she performs well at the track for what she is.

I also have my VRSF HD intercooler and Charge pipe on the way! Excited to put that in, I should feel a little more gain right?

Everybody pretty much covered your questions, so I won't rehash it, but you're on the right track. The FMIC will come in handy once you get to a stage 2 tune but you will still see the IAT benefits. Not sure of the volume on the VRSF HD FMIC, but if it's significantly bigger, don't freak out if you get a little lag due to the increased space.

Otherwise, since you're in San Diego, we will likely see each other around either on the street or at a meet. Just look for the MG F30 with quad tips, BM3 decals, and a skull mask on the passenger seat headrest.

Originally Posted by iamnofear

Do you have any recommendation upgrade together with the turbo for safety to the engine internals? I'm not going to bump boost higher than 22 psi. engine 20i has higher compression ratio on piston although I believe it has same part as 28i.

As of right now, one other member has upgraded the rod bolts to ARP ones. The rod bolts put in our engines stretch several times during the torquing of them. While it's not bulletproof, the new bolts will provide another layer of protection and likely allow you to reach higher power numbers. Your rods are still the same old weak ones of course but as of this message, there are no none rods being thrown due to the rod itself snapping. It has always been a bolt breaking and then snapping a piece of the rod (Even then, it's usually the 'broken' cap).

[D041987]

Pretty much on par with Bunker J reply and others. All research I have done has shown the bolts stretch due to heat cycles which cause the rod/ cap to break. I feel confident that the motor will be good for around the high 300 to around low 400 HP mark once Bolts are upgraded and you have all the proper bolt-ons to support the motor and you don't beat on it till fully warmed up with a solid flash tune. If you can add meth or go E85 it all helps with Detonation and add another layer of protection for the motor.

Past low to mid 400HP the cylinder walls will start to egg shape and flex eventually, potentially cracking as with any open deck motor I have encountered. At that point motor will need to be either sleeved or the deck will need to be pressed/ closed or do both at the same time to have a bullet proof 4 banger. If you doing all this, might as well get all the internals done at the same time and go all out, haha.

Limiting factor will be the 6 speed and at this time I am not sure if the 335I trans will bolt up as I have not gone down this route yet. My trans at 450TRQ with a stage 2 clutch rated for 540lbs has had 2nd gear whine and eventually broke apart. For Auto boys you should be good for around 500HP but will require a Valve body in near future and possibly Trans ECM flash to handle more power as you will begin to slip sooner than later.

[JG_Coupe88]

Originally Posted by BunkerJ

Everybody pretty much covered your questions, so I won't rehash it, but you're on the right track. The FMIC will come in handy once you get to a stage 2 tune but you will still see the IAT benefits. Not sure of the volume on the VRSF HD FMIC, but if it's significantly bigger, don't freak out if you get a little lag due to the increased space.

Otherwise, since you're in San Diego, we will likely see each other around either on the street or at a meet. Just look for the MG F30 with quad tips, BM3 decals, and a skull mask on the passenger seat headrest.

The new HD intercooler is the old street and 5' HD combined into one, certainly bigger than stock but I shouldn't feel lag from what I've been told and researched.

Look for an all blacked out BSM 428i with the rear 428i emblem black ,with 435i MPE on MP rear diffuser. I'll be on the lookout for ya , if you go to car's and coffees, a SD BMWCAA member, or track with Speed District hopefully I'll see your sick F30 around. I'll be at tomorrows autoX event. To anyone on here, you see me come say what up haha.

And everyone else, thanks a lot for further input. I was feeling like I was somewhere around 270-290 and 300+ lb/ft crank currently so glad to read the responses.

[iamnofear]

Originally Posted by BunkerJ

As of right now, one other member has upgraded the rod bolts to ARP ones. The rod bolts put in our engines stretch several times during the torquing of them. While it's not bulletproof, the new bolts will provide another layer of protection and likely allow you to reach higher power numbers. Your rods are still the same old weak ones of course but as of this message, there are no none rods being thrown due to the rod itself snapping. It has always been a bolt breaking and then snapping a piece of the rod (Even then, it's usually the 'broken' cap).

Thanks for the advice. I also heard that pistons and rods are also different between 20i and 28i so i am not sure they can handle new bigger turbo.

[D041987]

Originally Posted by iamnofear

Thanks for the advice. I also heard that pistons and rods are also different between 20i and 28i so i am not sure they can handle new bigger turbo.

Same material used but compression is different. You can go big turbo and make same or more power on less boost/PSI because of Higher Compression.

I love higher compression builds when going very big turbos as it aids in daily driving and creates less lag. You will be fine. You can make some power just do the same upgrades as any 328 motor. Your tune will be the only thing different.

[iamnofear]

Originally Posted by D041987

Same material used but compression is different. You can go big turbo and make same or more power on less boost/PSI because of Higher Compression.

I love higher compression builds when going very big turbos as it aids in daily driving and creates less lag. You will be fine. You can make some power just do the same upgrades as any 328 motor. Your tune will be the only thing different.

I'm glad to hear. So briefly: MHI turbo upgrade + GFB DV+ and Rod bolts and it should be fine. Thank you mate