Hawk HPS and massive squeeking....

ajrettke · 11-08-2018, 12:57 PM

So I have [strike] m performance[/strike] m sport brakes on my 335i and the pads were ready for changing. I didn't have the rotors turned (didn't think I needed too)...but I installed the new Hawk HPS pads. I followed the bed in process on the first drive and at first they seemed to work fine. There was a very slight squeak at a low speed.

I installed the grease on the back of the pads like suggested, they went in just fine and had no issues during the install.

I've put about 200 miles on the new pads and it's just gotten progressively worse and now:

Now there's pretty much squeaking at any speed, any temp and anything but extremely hard braking (which also seems soft and not grabbing near the OEM).

What are my options at this point? Its embarrassing to drive the vehicle now (my wife refuses to drive it)....it's that bad.

Pdxway · 11-08-2018, 01:14 PM

I also have M Performance brake and going to change pads soon. I am going to follow this guide:https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...rakes/J7O1UV0e

Based on the guides, you might want to do a little cleaning and also add lubes on the side of the pads too. See by putting lubes on sides of pads helps or not.

I am interested in your feedback as I don't want my new pads to squeal either.

PS: Are your rotors thickness above minimum requirements?

ajrettke · 11-08-2018, 01:57 PM

I didn't apply to the sides only the back...I'll pull them tomorrow and re-seat and check rotor thickness. Vehicle has ~50k miles

Pdxway · 11-08-2018, 02:01 PM

Mine is less than 40k miles and my rotors are only 0.1 mm above minimum. What I read is that we should not put new pads on below minimum rotors. I do wonder if your rotors are below minimum and need to be replaced.

ajrettke · 11-09-2018, 12:46 PM

rotors are 29.5mm, 1mm above min spec of 28.4mm.,...changin pads now...

Pdxway · 11-09-2018, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajrettke

rotors are 29.5mm, 1mm above min spec of 28.4mm.,...changin pads now...

Wow! 50k miles and only 0.5mm down. I do lots of stop and go and less than 40k and I am already about 1.5mm down.

You said changing pads. You meant with new pads or just to add grease to back and sides of pads?

Good luck!

ajrettke · 11-09-2018, 01:20 PM

Changed one side *edit...just scrubbed and added grease, same pads*, scrubbed the hell out of the pistons and guides with brake cleaner and applied new grease to the pads and sides of the pads as well and the squeel is still there....one thing I did notice though is the pads aren't wearing evening at all....on either side (of the rotor, and the looking at the disc on the other side same thing).....

I ordered F80 M3 pads...I was told they're the same pads as on the F30 M performance brakes (blue)....was that wrong and I have the wrong pads?
Hawk - Front And Rear HPS 5.0 Performance Brake Pad Kit - hb765b.664KT
Checked ECS tuning...that's the same part they offer for my F30 so the pads should be correct.

I can't remember if it's normal for that uneven of wear....almost seams my pistons are shot? When i added grease to the pads I noticed the pistons were making a semi circle...meaning they weren't pushing evenly on the back....how do all of a sudden 8 pistons start pushing incorrectly?

I'd just buy akebono's but I'm not sure if it's the calipers that are jacked..it doesn't make sense, how both brakes just all of sudden do the same thing?

Pdxway · 11-09-2018, 02:30 PM

Your rotors do not look like M Performance rotors. Mine has slots and drilled holes. Are you sure you have M Performance brake kits?

See https://www.shopbmwusa.com/PRODUCT/3...E-BRAKE-SYSTEM.

Also, the M Performance brake calipers come in orange, red, or yellow color. Blue calipers M Sport brakes are not M Performance, but should use same pads.

What colors are your calipers? How many pistons per caliper, for both front and back?

ajrettke · 11-09-2018, 02:36 PM

so the M on those are just for show as part of the M sport package?...either way the part number is the same for pads.

Pdxway · 11-09-2018, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajrettke

so the M on those are just for show as part of the M sport package?...either way the part number is the same for pads.

Yeah, l think means M Sport if yours is blue.

Something is seriously wrong. A big part of your rotors are not covered by the pads.

I will let other experts comment...

M2Rush · 11-09-2018, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajrettke

so the M on those are just for show as part of the M sport package?...either way the part number is the same for pads.

Here's some info if you want to get to the bottom of it, shows the difference between pads as well.

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-b...ke-differences

My car has blue calipers. (click to expand)
In Canada and Europe, the M Sport brake option (option code 2NH) came with blue Brembo calipers in the front and rear and larger rotors. This kit has the same specs as the M Performance accessory kit but with the blank rotor design and blue calipers instead of red, orange, or yellow. Officially the US did not get the blue calipers in our M Sport upgrade until the 2014 model year. All 2014 models (including F32 Coupe and F22 2-series) with the M Sport Brakes Upgrade (still called S2NHA and $650) used the same components as the rest of the world. These are the same brakes as what was standard on the M235i/iX.
Specs:
Front: Brembo 4-piston calipers, painted blue with an ///M logo; 370mm blank brake rotors
Rear: Brembo 2-piston calipers, painted blue with an ///M logo; 345mm blank brake rotors

Since the M Sport shares the same specs as the M Performance, the parts are interchangeable. You can add M Performance dimpled/slotted rotors to an M Sport car and they will be a direct fit. They are also a little lighter than the standard blank design. Pads are also interchangeable among the calipers. The M Sport pads are more aggressive and give more bite and feel than the M Performance pads.

Pdxway · 11-09-2018, 03:34 PM

Is there a noticeable lip on the inner edge (hub side) of rotors? Maybe the pads are riding on the lip of the inner edge of rotors. This will most likely cause noise.

Also, when you measure your rotors, did you account for the lips on the outer edge of rotors? You need to minus the lips thickness to calculate the correct thickness of rotors. You can use the coins trick to get pass the lips issue.

.5 mm down from 50k miles does not sound right to me. There appears to be noticeable lips on your rotors. The surface that actually meet your brake pads may be already is below minimum.

I think it is time to replace your rotors.

ajrettke · 11-09-2018, 04:17 PM

I did see the lip...it was small, so I took 2 button batteries(they're 10.5mm thick together) put them on the rotor surfaced and measured.... the lip is fairly small as well so I think there still in spec....

So thinking back now, when I pulled the original OEM pads they did have indentations on the back (machined out) which seemed odd to me. maybe the pistons are supposed to be on a slight angle and with OEM pads they fit correctly.

But this would make sense for one end or the other to wear unevenly....not the top and bottom...

Pdxway · 11-09-2018, 05:40 PM

All I can think of is that the new pads are very slightly larger than old pads. Thus the buttom of the new pads extends over to the inner lips of the rotor.

Pdxway · 11-09-2018, 06:23 PM

Note that you are doing the following at your own risk!!!!

If I am you, I will test out the assumption that the new pads are a bit larger than old pad. I will use a filer tool to grind down the bottom edge of the new pads, and try again to check if the pads now fit into the groove better and if that helps with the noise.

If that helps, you are still using pads that are no longer flat. You might still need new pads. : (

ajrettke · 11-10-2018, 02:18 PM

well I'm gonna order some akebono euro ceramics and give them a shot...if those don't work I'll have to find some OEM's....

Pdxway · 11-12-2018, 02:11 PM

I just installed PowerStop pads from Amazon:

Front:*https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01LY...op_mb_pd_title

Back:*https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01CF...op_mb_pd_title

Pads only cost me $80 as the back pads was on sale. I installed front pads two days ago and back pads yesterday.

After properly cleaning the calipers and lube all contact parts, for 3 days of driving not a single noise.

Will see how long it will remain noise free.

11-08-2018, 12:57 PM	#1
ajrettke Private First Class 20 Rep 175 Posts Drives: 2014 F30 335i Msport Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Dumfries, VA iTrader: (1)	Hawk HPS and massive squeeking.... So I have [strike] m performance[/strike] m sport brakes on my 335i and the pads were ready for changing. I didn't have the rotors turned (didn't think I needed too)...but I installed the new Hawk HPS pads. I followed the bed in process on the first drive and at first they seemed to work fine. There was a very slight squeak at a low speed. I installed the grease on the back of the pads like suggested, they went in just fine and had no issues during the install. I've put about 200 miles on the new pads and it's just gotten progressively worse and now: Now there's pretty much squeaking at any speed, any temp and anything but extremely hard braking (which also seems soft and not grabbing near the OEM). What are my options at this point? Its embarrassing to drive the vehicle now (my wife refuses to drive it)....it's that bad. Last edited by ajrettke; 11-09-2018 at 02:43 PM..
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11-08-2018, 01:14 PM	#2
Pdxway Private First Class 19 Rep 153 Posts Drives: 2013 328i Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Portland, Oregon iTrader: (0)	I also have M Performance brake and going to change pads soon. I am going to follow this guide:https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...rakes/J7O1UV0e Based on the guides, you might want to do a little cleaning and also add lubes on the side of the pads too. See by putting lubes on sides of pads helps or not. I am interested in your feedback as I don't want my new pads to squeal either. PS: Are your rotors thickness above minimum requirements? Last edited by Pdxway; 11-08-2018 at 01:32 PM..
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11-08-2018, 01:57 PM	#3
ajrettke Private First Class 20 Rep 175 Posts Drives: 2014 F30 335i Msport Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Dumfries, VA iTrader: (1)	I didn't apply to the sides only the back...I'll pull them tomorrow and re-seat and check rotor thickness. Vehicle has ~50k miles
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11-08-2018, 02:01 PM	#4
Pdxway Private First Class 19 Rep 153 Posts Drives: 2013 328i Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Portland, Oregon iTrader: (0)	Mine is less than 40k miles and my rotors are only 0.1 mm above minimum. What I read is that we should not put new pads on below minimum rotors. I do wonder if your rotors are below minimum and need to be replaced.
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11-09-2018, 12:46 PM	#5
ajrettke Private First Class 20 Rep 175 Posts Drives: 2014 F30 335i Msport Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Dumfries, VA iTrader: (1)	rotors are 29.5mm, 1mm above min spec of 28.4mm.,...changin pads now...
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11-09-2018, 01:20 PM	#7
ajrettke Private First Class 20 Rep 175 Posts Drives: 2014 F30 335i Msport Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Dumfries, VA iTrader: (1)	Changed one side edit...just scrubbed and added grease, same pads, scrubbed the hell out of the pistons and guides with brake cleaner and applied new grease to the pads and sides of the pads as well and the squeel is still there....one thing I did notice though is the pads aren't wearing evening at all....on either side (of the rotor, and the looking at the disc on the other side same thing)..... I ordered F80 M3 pads...I was told they're the same pads as on the F30 M performance brakes (blue)....was that wrong and I have the wrong pads? Hawk - Front And Rear HPS 5.0 Performance Brake Pad Kit - hb765b.664KT Checked ECS tuning...that's the same part they offer for my F30 so the pads should be correct. I can't remember if it's normal for that uneven of wear....almost seams my pistons are shot? When i added grease to the pads I noticed the pistons were making a semi circle...meaning they weren't pushing evenly on the back....how do all of a sudden 8 pistons start pushing incorrectly? I'd just buy akebono's but I'm not sure if it's the calipers that are jacked..it doesn't make sense, how both brakes just all of sudden do the same thing? Last edited by ajrettke; 11-09-2018 at 02:17 PM..
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11-09-2018, 02:30 PM	#8
Pdxway Private First Class 19 Rep 153 Posts Drives: 2013 328i Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Portland, Oregon iTrader: (0)	Your rotors do not look like M Performance rotors. Mine has slots and drilled holes. Are you sure you have M Performance brake kits? See https://www.shopbmwusa.com/PRODUCT/3...E-BRAKE-SYSTEM. Also, the M Performance brake calipers come in orange, red, or yellow color. Blue calipers M Sport brakes are not M Performance, but should use same pads. What colors are your calipers? How many pistons per caliper, for both front and back? Last edited by Pdxway; 11-09-2018 at 02:37 PM..
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11-09-2018, 02:36 PM	#9
ajrettke Private First Class 20 Rep 175 Posts Drives: 2014 F30 335i Msport Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Dumfries, VA iTrader: (1)	so the M on those are just for show as part of the M sport package?...either way the part number is the same for pads.
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11-09-2018, 03:34 PM	#12
Pdxway Private First Class 19 Rep 153 Posts Drives: 2013 328i Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Portland, Oregon iTrader: (0)	Is there a noticeable lip on the inner edge (hub side) of rotors? Maybe the pads are riding on the lip of the inner edge of rotors. This will most likely cause noise. Also, when you measure your rotors, did you account for the lips on the outer edge of rotors? You need to minus the lips thickness to calculate the correct thickness of rotors. You can use the coins trick to get pass the lips issue. .5 mm down from 50k miles does not sound right to me. There appears to be noticeable lips on your rotors. The surface that actually meet your brake pads may be already is below minimum. I think it is time to replace your rotors. Last edited by Pdxway; 11-09-2018 at 03:48 PM..
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11-09-2018, 04:17 PM	#13
ajrettke Private First Class 20 Rep 175 Posts Drives: 2014 F30 335i Msport Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Dumfries, VA iTrader: (1)	I did see the lip...it was small, so I took 2 button batteries(they're 10.5mm thick together) put them on the rotor surfaced and measured.... the lip is fairly small as well so I think there still in spec.... So thinking back now, when I pulled the original OEM pads they did have indentations on the back (machined out) which seemed odd to me. maybe the pistons are supposed to be on a slight angle and with OEM pads they fit correctly. But this would make sense for one end or the other to wear unevenly....not the top and bottom...
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11-09-2018, 05:40 PM	#14
Pdxway Private First Class 19 Rep 153 Posts Drives: 2013 328i Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Portland, Oregon iTrader: (0)	All I can think of is that the new pads are very slightly larger than old pads. Thus the buttom of the new pads extends over to the inner lips of the rotor.
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11-09-2018, 06:23 PM	#15
Pdxway Private First Class 19 Rep 153 Posts Drives: 2013 328i Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Portland, Oregon iTrader: (0)	Note that you are doing the following at your own risk!!!! If I am you, I will test out the assumption that the new pads are a bit larger than old pad. I will use a filer tool to grind down the bottom edge of the new pads, and try again to check if the pads now fit into the groove better and if that helps with the noise. If that helps, you are still using pads that are no longer flat. You might still need new pads. : (
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11-10-2018, 02:18 PM	#16
ajrettke Private First Class 20 Rep 175 Posts Drives: 2014 F30 335i Msport Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Dumfries, VA iTrader: (1)	well I'm gonna order some akebono euro ceramics and give them a shot...if those don't work I'll have to find some OEM's....
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11-12-2018, 02:11 PM	#17
Pdxway Private First Class 19 Rep 153 Posts Drives: 2013 328i Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Portland, Oregon iTrader: (0)	I just installed PowerStop pads from Amazon: Front:https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01LY...op_mb_pd_title Back:https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01CF...op_mb_pd_title Pads only cost me $80 as the back pads was on sale. I installed front pads two days ago and back pads yesterday. After properly cleaning the calipers and lube all contact parts, for 3 days of driving not a single noise. Will see how long it will remain noise free.
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