[BunkerJ]

Originally Posted by nemobanks

finally an informational thread

Not to downplay his thread ofc, but I did make one not too long ago: http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1461851

I need to go update it though.

Someone else made another thread, but I couldn't find it for some reason.

[take1step]

You can get around the worry of having ethanol degradation in your fuel lines by running a methanol kit. It has a similar effect as mixing ethanol in your fuel tank.

If you're trying to hit 300whp, you could probably do it on a stock turbo without ethanol/methanol, just by upping the boost and advanced timing. But it wouldn't be very reliable, the first thing to fail would probably be the turbo because of overheating. The stock turbo maxes out around 24psi, which is were you need to be at 5500 rpm for 300whp (which it won't be able to do for very long lol).

The best way to get 300whp reliably would be upgraded turbo, you'll be fine on the stock internals also.

I dynod 300whp at 24psi on a pure stage 2 turbo. I increased the boost to 28psi, to put it around 360whp and I had a ringland failure (I think the stock pistons have a weak spot in the ringland). So my block is currently being built and heads ported, aiming for 425whp

[BunkerJ]

Originally Posted by take1step

You can get around the worry of having ethanol degradation in your fuel lines by running a methanol kit. It has a similar effect as mixing ethanol in your fuel tank.

If you're trying to hit 300whp, you could probably do it on a stock turbo without ethanol/methanol, just by upping the boost and advanced timing. But it wouldn't be very reliable, the first thing to fail would probably be the turbo because of overheating. The stock turbo maxes out around 24psi, which is were you need to be at 5500 rpm for 300whp (which it won't be able to do for very long lol).

The best way to get 300whp reliably would be upgraded turbo, you'll be fine on the stock internals also.

I dynod 300whp at 24psi on a pure stage 2 turbo. I increased the boost to 28psi, to put it around 360whp and I had a ringland failure (I think the stock pistons have a weak spot in the ringland). So my block is currently being built and heads ported, aiming for 425whp

Can't wait for this! I pushed the turbo at 23PSI and it began fail after about 15k miles. My car is at 85k, so age was a factor as well I'm sure. New turbo going in right now, but we're gonna cap her at 300whp for now.

[rjd_F30]

Originally Posted by take1step

You can get around the worry of having ethanol degradation in your fuel lines by running a methanol kit. It has a similar effect as mixing ethanol in your fuel tank.

If you're trying to hit 300whp, you could probably do it on a stock turbo without ethanol/methanol, just by upping the boost and advanced timing. But it wouldn't be very reliable, the first thing to fail would probably be the turbo because of overheating. The stock turbo maxes out around 24psi, which is were you need to be at 5500 rpm for 300whp (which it won't be able to do for very long lol).

The best way to get 300whp reliably would be upgraded turbo, you'll be fine on the stock internals also.

I dynod 300whp at 24psi on a pure stage 2 turbo. I increased the boost to 28psi, to put it around 360whp and I had a ringland failure (I think the stock pistons have a weak spot in the ringland). So my block is currently being built and heads ported, aiming for 425whp

425whp on an N20!? that's got to be one of the highest around right? can't wait to hear about it when you get it finished up.

[BunkerJ]

Originally Posted by rjdnyy224

425whp on an N20!? that's got to be one of the highest around right? can't wait to hear about it when you get it finished up.

If he hits those numbers, it'll be the quickest in a non-track sense. The N20/N26's have been built for the track (Bimmerworld and CarBahn have done a few) and I'm sure have pushed the numbers much higher. I think the highest that we know of street car wise was in Brazil, pushing 380whp off PS2. Not much more on that and if it wasn't built, that was likely a one off dyno before it was tuned back down for safer numbers.

[M2_MEDUSA]

To shed some light on this, When I'd run anything above e25 I'd have idle issues e25 is about the limit of the stock pump before you notice any idle issues, E30 and my car would stall. E25 and it would buck at idle but not stall. E23 is the sweet spot and I've found that e23 is about the absolute highest you can go on stock fuel pump in this engine which is around 2.7 gallons of ethanol and 13.1 gallons of 91/93 since our tanks are 15.8 gallons.

I've ran E40 with the Fuel-it LPFP, no issues. I will advise you that ethanol on my stock pump above e25 has caused bucking to the point where my idle control valve actually malfunctioned and went out. Now it only operated properly half of the time.

If your planning on running ethanol I wouldn't even attempt it without a stage 2 LPFP like what me and BunkerJ have or else you may experience the same issues.

[BunkerJ]

Originally Posted by IssaF32

To shed some light on this, When I'd run anything above e25 I'd have idle issues e25 is about the limit of the stock pump before you notice any idle issues, E30 and my car would stall. E25 and it would buck at idle but not stall. E23 is the sweet spot and I've found that e23 is about the absolute highest you can go on stock fuel pump in this engine which is around 2.7 gallons of ethanol and 13.1 gallons of 91/93 since our tanks are 15.8 gallons.

I've ran E40 with the Fuel-it LPFP, no issues. I will advise you that ethanol on my stock pump above e25 has caused bucking to the point where my idle control valve actually malfunctioned and went out. Now it only operated properly half of the time.

If your planning on running ethanol I wouldn't even attempt it without a stage 2 LPFP like what me and BunkerJ have or else you may experience the same issues.

Phil2thejay is running E30 on a stock pump and runs fine, but still unsure of long term wear. I would assess it does speed up failure time due to stress.

[M2_MEDUSA]

Originally Posted by BunkerJ

Phil2thejay is running E30 on a stock pump and runs fine, but still unsure of long term wear. I would assess it does speed up failure time due to stress.

The first few times I put in E30 on a stock pump is buck violently and I'd stall, if it can happen to one n20/6 it can happen to another at some point


* Edit *

When I put in E30 the first few tanks ( given it was washed out by a full tank of 91 every few full tanks of e30 ) after a few tanks that's when the idles got worse and more violent to the stalling and my car sounding like it is cammed because the idle control valve went out due to onset acceleration of the ethanol at high levels, is only experience issues close to idle

So yes he may have not experienced issues with E30 because I didn't until a few more tanks, E23 is about what I could run consistently without idle issues. But this could also be due to my idle control valve being fucked from the few tanks of E30

[valetudo81]

I appreciate that input ISSAF32. I am really considering going this route. Now that you have the Stage 2 LPFP do you run a E40 blend all the time? Or is this something you only do on track days or something? I imagine your tune dictates when to use it. Meaning if you are running that particular MAP then you use it. Is that correct?

Can someone with a stock tune still see any HP or performance increases using this blend without a tune?

[valetudo81]

Originally Posted by take1step

You can get around the worry of having ethanol degradation in your fuel lines by running a methanol kit. It has a similar effect as mixing ethanol in your fuel tank.

If you're trying to hit 300whp, you could probably do it on a stock turbo without ethanol/methanol, just by upping the boost and advanced timing. But it wouldn't be very reliable, the first thing to fail would probably be the turbo because of overheating. The stock turbo maxes out around 24psi, which is were you need to be at 5500 rpm for 300whp (which it won't be able to do for very long lol).

The best way to get 300whp reliably would be upgraded turbo, you'll be fine on the stock internals also.

I dynod 300whp at 24psi on a pure stage 2 turbo. I increased the boost to 28psi, to put it around 360whp and I had a ringland failure (I think the stock pistons have a weak spot in the ringland). So my block is currently being built and heads ported, aiming for 425whp

If you build the bottom and top end up I don't see why your HP cap is at 425. I think you could see that no problem with the right tune and not have to worry about any failures anywhere. I imagine the Pure Stage 2 can handle that no problem.

[BunkerJ]

Originally Posted by valetudo81

I appreciate that input ISSAF32. I am really considering going this route. Now that you have the Stage 2 LPFP do you run a E40 blend all the time? Or is this something you only do on track days or something? I imagine your tune dictates when to use it. Meaning if you are running that particular MAP then you use it. Is that correct?

Can someone with a stock tune still see any HP or performance increases using this blend without a tune?

I would imagine you would see gains, but not to the full extent a tune would provide.

As for the limit, that may not be the limit of the engine, but the limit of the transmission. Ours is rated for 337ft-lbs. I know people have pushed it to 500+, but no indication of long term reliability.

[take1step]

Originally Posted by valetudo81

If you build the bottom and top end up I don't see why your HP cap is at 425. I think you could see that no problem with the right tune and not have to worry about any failures anywhere. I imagine the Pure Stage 2 can handle that no problem.

The issue with pushing an open deck block to hard is, it's not the most robust platform. So you might start to have contortions/warping of the block, which could lead to catastrophic failure

I'm not planning on closing or semi closing the deck, I didn't think it was going to be worth it for the money/time. I wasn't planning on changing the turbo/manifold in the near future either because I like the responsiveness of the PS2.

So that's why I'm 'capping' myself around 425whp, because I'm assuming the PS2 will not be able to get much further past 33psi. I think it'll be a great setup for road & track use.

[BunkerJ]

Originally Posted by take1step

The issue with pushing an open deck block to hard is, it's not the most robust platform. So you might start to have contortions/warping of the block, which could lead to catastrophic failure

I'm not planning on closing or semi closing the deck, I didn't think it was going to be worth it for the money/time. I wasn't planning on changing the turbo/manifold in the near future either because I like the responsiveness of the PS2.

So that's why I'm 'capping' myself around 425whp, because I'm assuming the PS2 will not be able to get much further past 33psi. I think it'll be a great setup for road & track use.

Agreed. It will be for sure!

[M2_MEDUSA]

Originally Posted by valetudo81

I appreciate that input ISSAF32. I am really considering going this route. Now that you have the Stage 2 LPFP do you run a E40 blend all the time? Or is this something you only do on track days or something? I imagine your tune dictates when to use it. Meaning if you are running that particular MAP then you use it. Is that correct?

Can someone with a stock tune still see any HP or performance increases using this blend without a tune?

I Run E35 Usually on days of car meets so maybe 3 times a week because I race on " closed roads " I'm currently running it right now actually.

[M2_MEDUSA]

I don't see this platform pushing 400whp unless you got about 10 grand dumped into it and sure engine might not go but now everything around it is going boom, tranny, driveshafts etc.

[take1step]

Originally Posted by IssaF32

I don't see this platform pushing 400whp unless you got about 10 grand dumped into it and sure engine might not go but now everything around it is going boom, tranny, driveshafts etc.

The ZF 8HP45 trans is rated for 330-375 ft∙lb torque. I think it'll get between 400-420awhp without a problem.

After everything it'll be more than 10k, the build went further than I expected. But I think it happens to the best of us lol I've learned a lot and had a lot of fun doing it, so I'm not complaining.

[BunkerJ]

Originally Posted by take1step

The ZF 8HP45 trans is rated for 330-375 ft∙lb torque. I think it'll get between 400-420awhp without a problem.

After everything it'll be more than 10k, the build went further than I expected. But I think it happens to the best of us lol I've learned a lot and had a lot of fun doing it, so I'm not complaining.

I'll see if I can track down those putting down more power, but there have been reports of 500+ftlbs on our transmission and no issues. Might speed up degradation though.

[D041987]

Bare min recipe for 300WHP!

Custom Flash Tune not an off the shelf plug and play map.
Catless Downpipe
Intercooler
E85 if you have access. If not you will want to get a Methanol setup to run with pump gas.

Safer Options to add but not required:

1 step colder plugs gaped around 0.018
GFB DV+ to keep boost longer as stock diverter bleeds sometimes.
FTP Intercooler pipes as stock break sometimes
LPFP stage 2 fuel it kit
Bigger Turbo: Stage 2 Pure, Hexon Stage 2, or do Custom big turbo.
Also factor in if you run e85 you will shortly need to replace your fuel filter and injectors as it has high detergents and will more than likely clog those items as it cleans your gas tank and lines etc.


So this should get you there if not close. Might not be the safest option as the turbo is taxed cause it's so small and its peaky. Safest bet would be to go bigger turbo as it helps free up some air and also will be a lot safer for the motor by moving the power band to the upper RPM range which will prevent the rods from stress!
Also intake and exhaust add close to nothing but sound.

[BunkerJ]

Originally Posted by D041987

Bare min recipe for 300WHP!

Custom Flash Tune not an off the shelf plug and play map.
Catless Downpipe
Intercooler
E85 if you have access. If not you will want to get a Methanol setup to run with pump gas.

Safer Options to add but not required:

1 step colder plugs gaped around 0.018
GFB DV+ to keep boost longer as stock diverter bleeds sometimes.
FTP Intercooler pipes as stock break sometimes
LPFP stage 2 fuel it kit
Bigger Turbo: Stage 2 Pure, Hexon Stage 2, or do Custom big turbo.
Also factor in if you run e85 you will shortly need to replace your fuel filter and injectors as it has high detergents and will more than likely clog those items as it cleans your gas tank and lines etc.


So this should get you there if not close. Might not be the safest option as the turbo is taxed cause it's so small and its peaky. Safest bet would be to go bigger turbo as it helps free up some air and also will be a lot safer for the motor by moving the power band to the upper RPM range which will prevent the rods from stress!
Also intake and exhaust add close to nothing but sound.

Yeah,I learned about the turbo for sure haha. Pushed it at 23 and seals started to give after 15k miles. Just slapped a new one in.

[nemobanks]

Originally Posted by D041987

Bare min recipe for 300WHP!

Custom Flash Tune not an off the shelf plug and play map.
Catless Downpipe
Intercooler
E85 if you have access. If not you will want to get a Methanol setup to run with pump gas.

Safer Options to add but not required:

1 step colder plugs gaped around 0.018
GFB DV+ to keep boost longer as stock diverter bleeds sometimes.
FTP Intercooler pipes as stock break sometimes
LPFP stage 2 fuel it kit
Bigger Turbo: Stage 2 Pure, Hexon Stage 2, or do Custom big turbo.
Also factor in if you run e85 you will shortly need to replace your fuel filter and injectors as it has high detergents and will more than likely clog those items as it cleans your gas tank and lines etc.


So this should get you there if not close. Might not be the safest option as the turbo is taxed cause it's so small and its peaky. Safest bet would be to go bigger turbo as it helps free up some air and also will be a lot safer for the motor by moving the power band to the upper RPM range which will prevent the rods from stress!
Also intake and exhaust add close to nothing but sound.

Bigger Turbo: Stage 2 Pure, Hexon Stage 2, or do Custom big turbo. Do you have picutures of your set up. or have custom manifold for sell?

[valetudo81]

Not quite in the 350 club yet. But thanks to BunkerJ I have a Stage 2 LPFP on order and then a bigger turbo in May.

[BunkerJ]

Originally Posted by valetudo81

Not quite in the 350 club yet. But thanks to BunkerJ I have a Stage 2 LPFP on order and then a bigger turbo in May.

Good to hear man! What turbo will you be going with?

Not that you have to, but I'm going to do stronger rod bolts and new bearings like another member, just as a precaution. After that, I'll push it to 350whp and clamp that for now... Considering the built engine, but I haven't abandoned my senses yet lol.