[Sennen]

Had a rare free day on Friday so my son and I thought we would pay a visit as it is not too far away.

Maybe it is a function of looking back with 'rose tinted' glasses but it was very 'school fete' compared with the event at the NEC back in the 80s and 90s. Hardly any Manufacturers there and it was mainly Dealers, Kit Cars and Custom set ups attending.

I did have trouble getting past this little beauty without getting the Debit card out though

https://www.premiergt.com/used/cars/...er-display-962

[KRS_SN]

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/opinio...-luxury-brands

[Sennen]

Originally Posted by KRS_SN

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/opinio...-luxury-brands

An Interesting article.

I have always considered JLR product with maybe the exception of the FFRR & RRS to be a rung slightly below BMW, Audi & Merc. Having said that imo the German triumvirate lost alot of kudos when they decided to compete in the 'Golf" market.

For truly luxury brands now you need to be looking at Ferrari, Lambo, Bentley, Aston, etc I think.

[MashinBenzin]

I'd go the other way, and say that my time owing a LR felt like I owned a true premium vehicle and the dealership experience was very reflective of that - from the earliest pre-sale encounter through to service. It was all much, much better than my decade in BMWs.

No way are they Aston or Bentley equivalent luxury vehicles though. Bar perhaps the FFRR SV.

[KRS_SN]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

dealership experience was very reflective of that -
It was all much, much better than my decade in BMWs.

I think bmw service and dealerships deal with people with 10 year old 118d's and new x7's.
LR dealerships I guess have a different clientele probably richer and more tolerant of things needing fixed and ££ needing spent etc.
I agree that I've never enjoyed visiting the BMW dealerships to buy a car or the service center which is mobbed and the SA's seem exhausted. The cars(some not all) are alright though and thankfully touch wood been lucky except the f 335d which I think I was unlucky with as I needed a few issues under warranty and the dealership experience was shoddy.

[KRS_SN]

Originally Posted by Sennen

German triumvirate lost alot of kudos when they decided to compete in the 'Golf" market.

For truly luxury brands now you need to be looking at Ferrari, Lambo, Bentley, Aston, etc I think.

Isn't the former so true. From premium to mass market the corners cut weren't worthy of a premium manufacturer.

The latter seem safe bets. I gather(maybe I'm wrong) that despite the initial costs they seem to keep their value and are long term reliable too.
I'm hoping my next buy would be an 'upgrade' if you can call it that into a luxury brand and hopefully they do a boring 7 seat with some sort of a plug in option so I can be kind to the planet too.

[SimonBMW1]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

I'd go the other way, and say that my time owing a LR felt like I owned a true premium vehicle and the dealership experience was very reflective of that - from the earliest pre-sale encounter through to service. It was all much, much better than my decade in BMWs.

No way are they Aston or Bentley equivalent luxury vehicles though. Bar perhaps the FFRR SV.

Most JLR cars still use a ford derv engine, to me that's not a premium brand. Id class JLR in the same category as Volvo and VW. Has all the right equipment but still not as good as the top offering's like Porsche/Bentley etc. Still better brand then a Telsa though so thats a bonus

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by SimonBMW1

Most JLR cars still use a ford derv engine, to me that's not a premium brand. Id class JLR in the same category as Volvo and VW. Has all the right equipment but still not as good as the top offering's like Porsche/Bentley etc. Still better brand then a Telsa though so thats a bonus

The Ford derv engine is long retired. But it was a very good engine, preferable to the BMW 30d imho.

Like everything else you troll about, you're full of opinion with incorrect facts and no experience.

Already said that they are no Bentley across 99.9% of the range, that's obvious. Porsche is a different market too, the Cayenne is great.

[Sennen]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

I'd go the other way, and say that my time owing a LR felt like I owned a true premium vehicle and the dealership experience was very reflective of that - from the earliest pre-sale encounter through to service. It was all much, much better than my decade in BMWs.

No way are they Aston or Bentley equivalent luxury vehicles though. Bar perhaps the FFRR SV.

This is a very good point that I actually dont consider when evaluating a Brands strength and maybe I should.

Out of the 'German Triumvirate' from my Dealer experience I would say Audi come bottom of the heap followed by Merc and BMW being the best.

I tend to agree the initial purchasing experience from LandRover is superior to the German 3 and the after sales we have experienced over the past 5 years has been superior too. Still not convinced the 'mainstream' JLR product is as good as those offered by the Germans though.

[Ennoch]

My experience of most BMW's is that they're pretty low rent and no better than a Vauxhall inside. Cheap pleather, acres of black plastic and weedy engines unless you spend a ton of cash on upgrading everything. In contrast most JLR products do at least feel a little more special, even in basic spec. Spend more and the gap widens quite significantly, IMO. But then I've thought the interior of every BMW courtesy car I've had over the last two years and all the others I've sat in too have been ghastly. Very few cars seem to actually have style any more, they're closer to the Homer Simpson car by competing for every more unnecessary design features and gadgets. Indeed there seems to be greater focus on having changeable LED lighting colours rather than actually having a classy design with nice materials and good ergonomics but then I guess that's what the finance a new car every three years generation wants. The recent X1 was the worst of a fairly poor bunch, even the road manners were pretty poor. But then some people can only see quality if the badge is right.

My experience of the BMW dealer is also typical of any big chain; looks glamorous but you're still served by the same idiot who is only capable of charging you money, they know nothing about the cars or what's wrong with them and the mechanics are no better was they're just glorified fitters.

[KRS_SN]

I think once we reach 5/7 series or x3 upwards we begin to get a bit of premium.
Below that it can be pretty pedestrian especially the non G series. I'm a member of the pissed off f series 3/4/2 club too but the x5 30d's have been bang on economical and reliable and between the 2 of them 107k miles now with just £372 replacing a rear air suspension bag on the 7 year old f15.
Comparing JLR which only offers SUV's at a premium to BMW which offers something for everyone's affordability and generally is more durable and economical to run isn't Comparing apples with apples but I digress.
A diagram plotting reliability comfort and economy and affordability and some bmw models are right up there bang in the middle.

[rokut]

I think it's sad that we didn't take time to drool over the 812 for a bit. What. A. Car.

Dream material

[Sennen]

Originally Posted by Ennoch

My experience of most BMW's is that they're pretty low rent and no better than a Vauxhall inside. Cheap pleather, acres of black plastic and weedy engines unless you spend a ton of cash on upgrading everything. In contrast most JLR products do at least feel a little more special, even in basic spec. Spend more and the gap widens quite significantly, IMO. But then I've thought the interior of every BMW courtesy car I've had over the last two years and all the others I've sat in too have been ghastly. Very few cars seem to actually have style any more, they're closer to the Homer Simpson car by competing for every more unnecessary design features and gadgets. Indeed there seems to be greater focus on having changeable LED lighting colours rather than actually having a classy design with nice materials and good ergonomics but then I guess that's what the finance a new car every three years generation wants. The recent X1 was the worst of a fairly poor bunch, even the road manners were pretty poor. But then some people can only see quality if the badge is right.

My experience of the BMW dealer is also typical of any big chain; looks glamorous but you're still served by the same idiot who is only capable of charging you money, they know nothing about the cars or what's wrong with them and the mechanics are no better was they're just glorified fitters.

Yes the 1 series is particularly low rent and imo not a patch on similar priced product from Audi or even VW and the interior of my sons mothers 4x4 Merc is just plain vulgar....... I think out of the German 3, Audi do the best interiors by some margin but they can let themselves down on the driving dynamics.

[Sennen]

Originally Posted by rokut

I think it's sad that we didn't take time to drool over the 812 for a bit. What. A. Car.

Dream material

Yes nigh on 800 HP of naturally aspirated goodness with a redline of 9000, it doesnt get any better

I suspect at £260k it will look very cheap in 5 years time but not sure I can justify it to myself in the current climate.

[isleaiw1]

didnt someone say there was a recession coming and it would be mad to splash cash on anything expensive... before buying 3 new cars. I mean, if you say it enough you will be right one time!

[KCH1984]

Someone in the vicinity of my office has one, missing the gold wheels though so not for me. I'll stick with the Model Y.

[Sennen]

Originally Posted by KCH1984

Someone in the vicinity of my office has one, missing the gold wheels though so not for me. I'll stick with the Model Y.

Yes I quite understand