Wagner VS MTC VS eBay special???

K3v_C · 11-30-2020, 05:42 AM

Hi I'm ready to make a purchase on a new I/C for my F32 435d.

I just want to know if spending the extra on a Wagner EVO 2 (£700) is really worth it? over a MTC one as they cost less than half at £300, and looking on eBay there's some Chyna specials around £250 which is even cheaper.

I know old saying you pay for what you get, cheap and nasty etc, but if anyone could shed some extra light that would be great and appreciated, or if anyone has any experiences with either of the intercoolers?

Cheers!

t5pilot · 11-30-2020, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K3v_C

Hi I'm ready to make a purchase on a new I/C for my F32 435d.

I just want to know if spending the extra on a Wagner EVO 2 (£700) is really worth it? over a MTC one as they cost less than half at £300, and looking on eBay there's some Chyna specials around £250 which is even cheaper.

I know old saying you pay for what you get, cheap and nasty etc, but if anyone could shed some extra light that would be great and appreciated, or if anyone has any experiences with either of the intercoolers?

Cheers!

Unless there's something wrong with your stock intercooler, don't bother.
They're a complete waste of money if you're thinking you're going to get any more power from one. Even if you're mapped. You're not. This discussion has been done to death over the years.
If you're replacing a broken one, MTC do make good stuff. I've bought from them before.

K3v_C · 11-30-2020, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t5pilot

Unless there's something wrong with your stock intercooler, don't bother.
They're a complete waste of money if you're thinking you're going to get any more power from one. Even if you're mapped. You're not. This discussion has been done to death over the years.
If you're replacing a broken one, MTC do make good stuff. I've bought from them before.

I appreciate your reply

so you are saying a an identical spec car with a stock OEM intercooler vs a car with either a MTC or Wagner intercooler will run the same BHP and Torque figures based on the same dyno? I appreciate your reply / info but I find that hard to believe. Do any previous posts have any figures or power run graphs to back this info up?

t5pilot · 11-30-2020, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K3v_C

Quote:

Originally Posted by t5pilot

Unless there's something wrong with your stock intercooler, don't bother.
They're a complete waste of money if you're thinking you're going to get any more power from one. Even if you're mapped. You're not. This discussion has been done to death over the years.
If you're replacing a broken one, MTC do make good stuff. I've bought from them before.

I appreciate your reply

so you are saying a an identical spec car with a stock OEM intercooler vs a car with either a MTC or Wagner intercooler will run the same BHP and Torque figures based on the same dyno? I appreciate your reply / info but I find that hard to believe. Do any previous posts have any figures or power run graphs to back this info up?

There's no specific posts spring to mind. I looked into it when I had my F30 335d mapped years ago, and my E90 before that.
No benefit in this country at all.
Someone with some technical knowledge will be able to explain. Possibly Tengocity ?
His old F31 335d was heavily modified.

K3v_C · 11-30-2020, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t5pilot

There's no specific posts spring to mind. I looked into it when I had my F30 335d mapped years ago, and my E90 before that.
No benefit in this country at all.
Someone with some technical knowledge will be able to explain. Possibly Tengocity ?
His old F31 335d was heavily modified.

Ok thanks

Watsey · 11-30-2020, 01:32 PM

Why do you feel that you want to change the IC ? As a purely stand alone mod it won't make a significant difference unless your car is remapped and you're working it hard on a hot day (track session etc).

Before doing anything I'd install an OBD data logger (OBD Fusion is one option) and record/plot the IAT and AT for several sustained full throttle pulls through all of the gears. You'll need a very long stretch of quiet road and your eyes peeled for the boys in blue. Or a track.

My car is remapped and has the IC from a 35d which was part of the MPPK kit which I had fitted for a short while. There's typically a 3-5°C temperature difference between the IAT and AT and although this can increase slightly if I'm working the card hard I've not seen runaway temps which might indicate heat soak.

If you really want to change the IC then I'd recommend you do your homework. There's a lot to consider in terms of tube & fin, bar & plate, size, airflow routing, pressure loss & lag, manufacturer & price.

If I was in the market I'd most likely go with ATM or Evolution Raceworks.

TiredGeek · 12-02-2020, 02:14 PM

If you're really set on changing then have a look at Darkside, they do a Wagner clone for a lot less.....

https://www.darksidedevelopments.co....x-f3x-f87.html

Watsey · 12-02-2020, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiredGeek

If you're really set on changing then have a look at Darkside, they do a Wagner clone for a lot less.....

https://www.darksidedevelopments.co....x-f3x-f87.html

Scroll down and look at the installation time/cost => 4 hours and £240

20 minutes more like.

For £250 the IC itself looks OK from the outside, and being bar & plate it'll be robust, but without further details about the internals (i.e. airflow routing) it's hard to know how effective it'd be.

WillLowe · 12-02-2020, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiredGeek

If you're really set on changing then have a look at Darkside, they do a Wagner clone for a lot less.....

https://www.darksidedevelopments.co....x-f3x-f87.html

I've got this fitted on mine. It pulled a healthy 422bhp after the remap was tweaked. And the quality seemed perfectly acceptable.

TiredGeek · 12-03-2020, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Watsey

Scroll down and look at the installation time/cost => 4 hours and £240

20 minutes more like.

For £250 the IC itself looks OK from the outside, and being bar & plate it'll be robust, but without further details about the internals (i.e. airflow routing) it's hard to know how effective it'd be.

Yeh, I'd never have the thing installed, it looks pretty damn easy if a tad fiddly. Plus, I can't take that Barnsley accent seriously, hi tech tuning by someone who sounds like they've just come outa tha pit, ecky thump

Snowflakes: I'm from Yorkshire so I can take the p*ss out of the accent if I want

Watsey · 12-03-2020, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillLowe

I've got this fitted on mine. It pulled a healthy 422bhp after the remap was tweaked. And the quality seemed perfectly acceptable.

Interested to know whether you had dyno runs before and after the IC was fitted, plus a further run for the new IC and the tweaked map.

Can be tricky, but useful nevertheless, to know what gains are attributable purely to the IC.

WillLowe · 12-03-2020, 03:07 PM

Yeah I havnt got a direct comparison as the two maps were done nearly a year apart. Albeit by the same place but with different temperatures etc, its not to easy to compare. The first map pulled 397bhp then the next map was applied and achieved 422 with the cooler. the pre dyno run on that occasion pulled 409bhp

11-30-2020, 05:42 AM	#1
K3v_C Enlisted Member 8 Rep 39 Posts Drives: BMW F32 435d Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Leeds iTrader: (0)	Wagner VS MTC VS eBay special??? Hi I'm ready to make a purchase on a new I/C for my F32 435d. I just want to know if spending the extra on a Wagner EVO 2 (£700) is really worth it? over a MTC one as they cost less than half at £300, and looking on eBay there's some Chyna specials around £250 which is even cheaper. I know old saying you pay for what you get, cheap and nasty etc, but if anyone could shed some extra light that would be great and appreciated, or if anyone has any experiences with either of the intercoolers? Cheers!
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11-30-2020, 01:32 PM	#6
Watsey Major General 6407 Rep 8,493 Posts Drives: F31 330D sDrive M Sport Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: On sabbatical. iTrader: (1)	Why do you feel that you want to change the IC ? As a purely stand alone mod it won't make a significant difference unless your car is remapped and you're working it hard on a hot day (track session etc). Before doing anything I'd install an OBD data logger (OBD Fusion is one option) and record/plot the IAT and AT for several sustained full throttle pulls through all of the gears. You'll need a very long stretch of quiet road and your eyes peeled for the boys in blue. Or a track. My car is remapped and has the IC from a 35d which was part of the MPPK kit which I had fitted for a short while. There's typically a 3-5°C temperature difference between the IAT and AT and although this can increase slightly if I'm working the card hard I've not seen runaway temps which might indicate heat soak. If you really want to change the IC then I'd recommend you do your homework. There's a lot to consider in terms of tube & fin, bar & plate, size, airflow routing, pressure loss & lag, manufacturer & price. If I was in the market I'd most likely go with ATM or Evolution Raceworks. __________________ Current : F31 330sD, remapped, Ohlins Road & Track, Millway camber plates, Quaife LSD, Stoptech brakes + Pagid RSL1 pads all round, Weichers front strut brace, Eibach front & rear anti-roll bars, Michelin MP4S.
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12-02-2020, 02:14 PM	#7
TiredGeek Old Fart 361 Rep 693 Posts Drives: 335dx F31 Shadow EB Join Date: May 2018 Location: Leeds & Strathnaver iTrader: (0)	If you're really set on changing then have a look at Darkside, they do a Wagner clone for a lot less..... https://www.darksidedevelopments.co....x-f3x-f87.html __________________ The doctors said it's OK to listen to the voices..... just don't do what they tell me
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12-03-2020, 03:07 PM	#12
WillLowe Lieutenant 300 Rep 595 Posts Drives: F32 435d Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Newcastle upon Tyne iTrader: (0)	Yeah I havnt got a direct comparison as the two maps were done nearly a year apart. Albeit by the same place but with different temperatures etc, its not to easy to compare. The first map pulled 397bhp then the next map was applied and achieved 422 with the cooler. the pre dyno run on that occasion pulled 409bhp
	Appreciate 0 Quote