[Stan876]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

Yes they do, but unlike xDrive they have power to make up on the straight bits

Alright point taken I wish I could afford a 330

[Accelerometer]

Originally Posted by 300hp

Guys you can come up with all sorts of logical explanations you want, the reality is the 335i xdrive DOES NOT understeer. The experts have already said the RWD 335i and the S4 understeer. I would challenge you to look for any expert who says the xdrive F30 understeers. If anything MT said the xdrive oversteers.

Let it rest.

Sorry 300, this is completely false ANY car can understeer. If a driver's steering inputs exceeds the amount of available traction at the front wheels a car will "push" wide into a corner. I have experienced this both first hand in our AWD F30 335i xDrive and our RWD E90 M3. I can tell you without a doubt that the AWD F30 exhibited this behavior far more frequently.

Having said that I only experienced pronounced understeer on closed race tracks. Never really noticed any of this in spirited or normal street driving. So for most I think this is really a non issue.

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by Stan876

The electronics wont allow understeer like they wont allow oversteer there is no difference in the measurement of the slip that brings the traction control into action (the electronics don't completely eliminate either admittedly) your friction circle principal only holds water when there are no electronics interfering to stop the torque overpowering the front wheels again your argument does not stand up and as for marketing dribble you will find that sensors have come on quite a lot in the last few years ones capable of doing this job on both axles are a few pound to buy and yes they work in fractions of a second.

Of course his argument stands up. Sure the electronics intervene to stop slip, but works within the friction circle in the first place.

For example take a car and fit 4 space savers instead of the normal wheels. The cars ASC will control it from slipping and sliding about, it will just be going one hell of a lot slower before the electronics feel the need to intervene. Same as driving a car in icy conditions, ASC just cuts in at much lower speeds.

[300hp]

Originally Posted by Accelerometer

Sorry 300, this is completely false ANY car can understeer. If a driver's steering inputs exceeds the amount of available traction at the front wheels a car will "push" wide into a corner. I have experienced this both first hand in our AWD F30 335i xDrive and our RWD E90 M3. I can tell you without a doubt that the AWD F30 exhibited this behavior far more frequently.

Having said that I only experienced pronounced understeer on closed race tracks. Never really noticed any of this in spirited or normal street driving. So for most I think this is really a non issue.

All I know is when MT drove the car hard it oversteered. You are saying it understeers. Maybe it's the way you drive yours I don't know.

On a side note the xdrive is going to exhibit less positive attributes than an M3

[drob23]

Originally Posted by Stan876

The electronics wont allow understeer like they wont allow oversteer there is no difference in the measurement of the slip that brings the traction control into action (the electronics don't completely eliminate either admittedly) your friction circle principal only holds water when there are no electronics interfering to stop the torque overpowering the front wheels again your argument does not stand up and as for marketing dribble you will find that sensors have come on quite a lot in the last few years ones capable of doing this job on both axles are a few pound to buy and yes they work in fractions of a second.

Punctuation is your friend...

[Stan876]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

Of course his argument stands up. Sure the electronics intervene to stop slip, but works within the friction circle in the first place.

For example take a car and fit 4 space savers instead of the normal wheels. The cars ASC will control it from slipping and sliding about, it will just be going one hell of a lot slower before the electronics feel the need to intervene. Same as driving a car in icy conditions, ASC just cuts in at much lower speeds.

I am a bit clumsy with my posts not a lot of thought goes into them and i tend to do them on the fly I was not trying to dispute the laws of physics only that in the context of this discussion you can't use the friction circle principle as a justification to say that the Xdrive under steers any more than any other BMW. If the official blurb that BMW put out regarding the xdrive is correct and i have read nothing to say otherwise the engineers obviously thought oh shit if the xdrive understeers its going to get a right hammering so we better tune the suspension and electronics to make sure it is at least the same if not better than the rear wheel drive car. There is plenty of text about the RWD car understeering and very little about the xdrive understeering.

[Stan876]

Originally Posted by drob23

Punctuation is your friend...

Sorry, it's a good point well put! ,.:',!!,,..???? I talk without punctuation as well