[designatedposter]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

It's pretty necessary if you care at all about how the car is performing and responding to the tune. Yes, it's well proven and the DME is very good at protecting the engine but not logging at all is just a bad idea IMO... Its not hard or complicated really, and you can post logs there and/or email PTF support to confirm all looks good.

If you want more of a set it and forget it tune i would recommend MHD over BM3. But regardless of the tune, i still recommend logging at least intermittently - a couple logs after the flash to make sure it looks good, then if you are making no changes at all maybe once a month or a couple times a year. Consider it like a check-up on your car; it checks not only the tune but hardware to an extent as well and can be used as a diagnostic tool.

I also wrote a detailed thread on datalogging and you can read that here: https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1732327

why are you suggesting the MHD tune is more set and forget than bootmod3 tune?

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by designatedposter

why are you suggesting the MHD tune is more set and forget than bootmod3 tune?

In brief, its a little more conservative, it's a load-based tune, and it doesn't push hardware to the limit as much as BM3 does. I suppose this is less of a concern for a pump gas stage 1 tune, but the fact remains. It's overall more stock like in operation. I am in no way implying that BM3 doesn't / can't work, but for the layperson who doesn't even want to datalog in the first place i think MHD is the better option. For such a person, I would say it's also more user friendly to work with, from install to logging.

On the other hand if someone wants to extract every ounce of power they can from a OTS tune and doesnt mind datalogging to make sure they arent crashing HPFP, getting clutch slip, etc, then i would say they can go BM3 for that.

[Pray for Mojo]

No matter which tune you run everyone should be datalogging. There is so much variability in fuel quality it's a gamble to flash and full send.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by Pray for Mojo

No matter which tune you run everyone should be datalogging. There is so much variability in fuel quality it's a gamble to flash and full send.

Agree totally as i said in my original response here: https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...postcount=3365

[itsrichierich]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

In brief, its a little more conservative, it's a load-based tune, and it doesn't push hardware to the limit as much as BM3 does. I suppose this is less of a concern for a pump gas stage 1 tune, but the fact remains. It's overall more stock like in operation. I am in no way implying that BM3 doesn't / can't work, but for the layperson who doesn't even want to datalog in the first place i think MHD is the better option. For such a person, I would say it's also more user friendly to work with, from install to logging.

On the other hand if someone wants to extract every ounce of power they can from a OTS tune and doesnt mind datalogging to make sure they arent crashing HPFP, getting clutch slip, etc, then i would say they can go BM3 for that.

With that being said, tacos or burgers? Sushi or pizza?

[oranga]

Thanks for the thoughtful responses!

That makes me reconsider things then. I don't mind getting my hands dirty with a DIY project here and there, but i don't have time to be chasing down and figuring out potential issues on a regular basis, especially not on a daily driver.

[itsrichierich]

Originally Posted by oranga

Thanks for the thoughtful responses!

That makes me reconsider things then. I don't mind getting my hands dirty with a DIY project here and there, but i don't have time to be chasing down and figuring out potential issues on a regular basis, especially not on a daily driver.

Should of stayed away from modifying a car. Heck, should of stayed away from a BMW

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by oranga

Thanks for the thoughtful responses!

That makes me reconsider things then. I don't mind getting my hands dirty with a DIY project here and there, but i don't have time to be chasing down and figuring out potential issues on a regular basis, especially not on a daily driver.

I don't want to discourage you from running a tune by giving you the impression it's going to cause issues. You asked about datalogging not whether or not the tune is going to cause issues; those are two different things. The recommendation to datalog is to make sure everything is running as it should, not necessarily to chase down issues that may be caused by a tune. The datalogging may reveal issues, but it could reveal issues even on your stock car... Not datalogging because you dont want to see potential issues is basically just turning a blind eye, lol. And as i said before, datalogging is very easy and you can learn a lot in the process.

My 335 is my daily and i run MHD stage 2+ E20 map which requires mixing fuel at every fillup, with a ever-growing list of mods.

[MTWO]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

It's pretty necessary if you care at all about how the car is performing and responding to the tune. Yes, it's well proven and the DME is very good at protecting the engine but not logging at all is just a bad idea IMO... Its not hard or complicated really, and you can post logs there and/or email PTF support to confirm all looks good.

If you want more of a set it and forget it tune i would recommend MHD over BM3. But regardless of the tune, i still recommend logging at least intermittently - a couple logs after the flash to make sure it looks good, then if you are making no changes at all maybe once a month or a couple times a year. Consider it like a check-up on your car; it checks not only the tune but hardware to an extent as well and can be used as a diagnostic tool.

I also wrote a detailed thread on datalogging and you can read that here: https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1732327

This makes exactly zero sense on set it and forget it. Both come with OTS maps and both, and any and all tunes ever made, should be logged as you never know how it may be doing on a given particular car in particular conditions and your particular octane quality.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by MTWO

This makes exactly zero sense on set it and forget it. Both come with OTS maps and both, and any and all tunes ever made, should be logged as you never know how it may be doing on a given particular car in particular conditions and your particular octane quality.

Um, did you not read my posts lol? I explicitly said no matter which tune you choose you need to log lol, and followed up on why i recommended MHD for this particuarly person. I never said you dont need to log with one tune or the other. And if you would have clicked on my datalogging thread link you know I for one am a strong advocate for datalogging in general...

[thatBimmerBloke]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Plugs should be fine then (Ozy had "perfect" timing, no corrections, on 93 map with stock plugs stock gap, using only 93 fuel).

Throttle closure not sure... I think i saw other one other time recently in a BM3 log but i assume they have not released a new version? It might go away with adaptations as well, especially because the catless DP compared to OEM is going to make boost more quickly/easily.

If you want to 'reset' your ethanol content in the tank and are worried about knock/timing, just flash the 91 map and run a full tank of 93 through. Then proceed to mix for E30 and flash that map.

So I adding 2.5 gallons of E85 next day and logged again. Don't see any knock in the two runs. Emailed PTF about the overboost in the beginning and they said it's only 1k over target and not an issue, he also said stock map has worse behavior.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f4e...729b12742251ad

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f4e...0b435e569cae4f

I'll log a few runs today and if it looks good then will go for E30 map. My pump tested 5% for 93 octane and exactly 85% for E85.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by thatBimmerBloke

So I adding 2.5 gallons of E85 next day and logged again. Don't see any knock in the two runs. Emailed PTF about the overboost in the beginning and they said it's only 1k over target and not an issue, he also said stock map has worse behavior.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f4e...729b12742251ad

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f4e...0b435e569cae4f

I'll log a few runs today and if it looks good then will go for E30 map. My pump tested 5% for 93 octane and exactly 85% for E85.

Did you actually mix enough to get E30 in the tank? 2.5 gallons wouldnlt do it with the rest 93 in a full tank even with the test results you got.

As far as the logs go, the timing does look pretty good overall. Some corrections but they recover.

Both of them have the weird overboost and boost oscillation in the beginning... BM3 basically always overboosts at the beginning of the pull, but the thing that is different about yours is (1) the throttle actually closes briefly because of the overboost, and (2) the oscillation happens 2-3 times. Usually its a overboost with no throttle closure and its a "smooth" overboost as the boost goes from slightly above to slightly below target as RPM increases. It will be interesting to see if that also happens on the E30 map. You can see it happens 3 times in a row in the second log. Are you at altitude? Your ambient pressure is -0.5 and that could be a factor.

Also, i have no idea that PTF is talking about that the stock map has worse behavior lol... Stock map does not overboost intentionally. That doesn't even make sense. I also haven't seen the oscillating throttle closure and boost in a stock map, although i havent looked at TOO many stock logs. I assume he meant 1psi over target not 1k...

[thatBimmerBloke]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Did you actually mix enough to get E30 in the tank? 2.5 gallons wouldnlt do it with the rest 93 in a full tank even with the test results you got.

As far as the logs go, the timing does look pretty good overall. Some corrections but they recover.

Both of them have the weird overboost and boost oscillation in the beginning... BM3 basically always overboosts at the beginning of the pull, but the thing that is different about yours is (1) the throttle actually closes briefly because of the overboost, and (2) the oscillation happens 2-3 times. Usually its a overboost with no throttle closure and its a "smooth" overboost as the boost goes from slightly above to slightly below target as RPM increases. It will be interesting to see if that also happens on the E30 map. You can see it happens 3 times in a row in the second log. Are you at altitude? Your ambient pressure is -0.5 and that could be a factor.

Also, i have no idea that PTF is talking about that the stock map has worse behavior lol... Stock map does not overboost intentionally. That doesn't even make sense. I also haven't seen the oscillating throttle closure and boost in a stock map, although i havent looked at TOO many stock logs. I assume he meant 1psi over target not 1k...

Yes my bad, 0.5-1psi, it was about my older log with knock, I see that one didn't oscillate this bad, just once. This is what he said about the over-boost, I assumed he meant it's worse for stock "It’s not even overboost, it goes 0.5-1.0 psi over target, that’s nothing. Stock you should see how the throttle is across on these cars.". I'll send him more logs showing throttle oscillations.

I was targetting around E20-E25 for the 93 octane map. I should give it more time to adapt, I just can't stop logging, haha. I'll just do couple more tonight and send them to PTF also. Also, I don't think I'm at altitude(617 ft elevation), pretty close to sea level, -0.5 ambient pressure could be some issue? I just noticed my first few logs with stage 1 also had about minus 0.3-0.4 ambient pressure, probably car adapting to the tune?

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by thatBimmerBloke

Yes my bad, 0.5-1psi, it was about my older log with knock, I see that one didn't oscillate this bad, just once. This is what he said about the over-boost, I assumed he meant it's worse for stock "It’s not even overboost, it goes 0.5-1.0 psi over target, that’s nothing. Stock you should see how the throttle is across on these cars.". I'll send him more logs showing throttle oscillations.

I was targetting around E20-E25 for the 93 octane map. I should give it more time to adapt, I just can't stop logging, haha. I'll just do couple more tonight and send them to PTF also. Also, I don't think I'm at altitude(617 ft elevation), pretty close to sea level, -0.5 ambient pressure could be some issue? I just noticed my first few logs with stage 1 also had about minus 0.3-0.4 ambient pressure, probably car adapting to the tune?

I mean, maybe we are splitting hairs, but by definition is overboost not any amount of boost over target lol? In contrast, stock and MHD tune do not intentionally 'overboost' (i.e., allow boost over target without throttle closure). Sure, you can say 1 psi isn't a lot of overboost, but saying its not overboost just doesnt make sense.

I suppose i can see what he means with throttle closure on BM3 vs. stock tune (and MHD for that matter). Bm3 is very lax with throttle closure in the sense that it allows the 'overboost' without closing the throttle, and it targets 100% throttle ASAP. On the other hand stock tune gradually opens the throttle throughout the pull, and it closes the throttle with any amount of MAP overboost. MHD is sort of between the two in that it also targets 100% throttle asap (quick/strong power delivery) but it retains the stock tune sensitivity to overboost (closes throttle with even 0.1 psi overboost, although only closes throttle the minimum amount to get boost under control). These are the way the tunes behave, im not going to say which one is "better" (although i personally prefer the MHD approach).

AFIAK the ambient pressure is based on barometric pressure - so in other words, its density altitude and not necessarily elevation above sea level, meaning other atmospheric conditions could be factored in. I dont think its an issue. High temps could be a factor as well. But lower ambient pressure (higher density altitude) will make it more difficult to build boost, and potentially more difficult to control it as well.

I totally get the "can't stop logging" - i was there for a long time chasing boost leaks, installing parts, etc. Just dont get so focused on getting perfect logs you forget to enjoy the car!

[thatBimmerBloke]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

I totally get the "can't stop logging" - i was there for a long time chasing boost leaks, installing parts, etc. Just dont get so focused on getting perfect logs you forget to enjoy the car!

haha, thanks man, appreciate all the info. I'll just let it adapt for a while before logging again. There was a stock(most likely) M550ix on the road yesterday and he just walked past me with ease, haha. Then I looked up the specs and even an M3 would've had a hard time keeping up with it, didn't feel bad after that That thing was moving!
Car sounds great after going catless, paired with my MPE. Just the right amount of burbles, might have to tone it down a bit for Sport+. Will be interesting to see the improvement with Dragy. Also, the bumpy shifts in lower gears that I experienced for the first few days after going stage 1 is not present with stage 2. Is xHP worth it or should I give bm3 trans flash a try?

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by thatBimmerBloke

haha, thanks man, appreciate all the info. I'll just let it adapt for a while before logging again. There was a stock(most likely) M550ix on the road yesterday and he just walked past me with ease, haha. Then I looked up the specs and even an M3 would've had a hard time keeping up with it, didn't feel bad after that That thing was moving!
Car sounds great after going catless, paired with my MPE. Just the right amount of burbles, might have to tone it down a bit for Sport+. Will be interesting to see the improvement with Dragy. Also, the bumpy shifts in lower gears that I experienced for the first few days after going stage 1 is not present with stage 2. Is xHP worth it or should I give bm3 trans flash a try?

No personal experience with BM3 trans tune vs XHP but i believe the general consensus is that the XHP tune is much more refined. IMO there's alot of unknowns about the BM3 trans tune (is there even any documentation on it? is it outside of beta?) so i personally wouldnt even run it at all on my car. I know some people also had paddle and other issues with BM3.

XHP in itself is well worth the money IMO. When you get the itch for the next mod and need to scratch it, XHP should fit the bill.

[MTWO]

BM3 flash for the N55 lifts up torque limiters for cars where 3rd and 6th gear are limited from the factory. I don’t have a clue why BMW did that torque limiting in 3rd and 6th gears, very odd, but that’s what it fixes and it raises line pressure so shifts feel much better. Its a great option and freely included and tons of people run it.

[Tpriest7893]

Originally Posted by itsrichierich

Should of stayed away from modifying a car. Heck, should of stayed away from a BMW

Ha I told myself this once I started modding my car lol. Love my car but I would be lying if I didn't regret it a few times here n there

[paimon.soror]

Originally Posted by MTWO

BM3 flash for the N55 lifts up torque limiters for cars where 3rd and 6th gear are limited from the factory. I don’t have a clue why BMW did that torque limiting in 3rd and 6th gears, very odd, but that’s what it fixes and it raises line pressure so shifts feel much better. Its a great option and freely included and tons of people run it.

Longevity- if i remember correctly, 6th gear engages all 3 clutches, so the limitation was imposed for longevity. It and 3rd gear are the only ones I believe that engage both C and E packs which are the more common drive gears.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by MTWO

BM3 flash for the N55 lifts up torque limiters for cars where 3rd and 6th gear are limited from the factory. I don’t have a clue why BMW did that torque limiting in 3rd and 6th gears, very odd, but that’s what it fixes and it raises line pressure so shifts feel much better. Its a great option and freely included and tons of people run it.

Yes, it will remove the 3rd/6th torque limits, which are intentionally put in place by BMW due to the clutch engagement as mentioned above. But is there any documentation to show that it actually raises line pressure or what else the BM3 trans flash does?

There's an older post that says it only removes the torque limits, nothing else. Just curious what information is out there, if any... https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1668774

[TK335iMSPT]

2014 335i Xdrive BM3 Stage 1 91oct 58k miles
VRSF 5inch HD intercooler
VRSF Charge Pipe
OEM Plugs/Coils gapped to .030 with 3k miles on them
AFE Pro dry drop in air filter
Running Wawa 93oct gas

Refueled at a different gas station (WAWA). Was going to try Costco but did not have the opportunity to due to timing. With the new gas, I have noticed now that only 1 out of 4 logs shows a knock and its only one time instead of multiple. Even though the timing isn't the cleanest, the logs no longer go into negative timing which is good. Overall I am pretty satisfied with how these logs look compared to my previous ones. I am going to try octane booster next tank and see if they improve even more.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f56...729b53eb61772e

Log 2: Knock at 2547 RPM's
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f56...729b53eb617731


https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f56...0b4351832ddc06


https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f56...0b4351832ddc07

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by TK335iMSPT

2014 335i Xdrive BM3 Stage 1 91oct 58k miles
VRSF 5inch HD intercooler
VRSF Charge Pipe
OEM Plugs/Coils gapped to .030 with 3k miles on them
AFE Pro dry drop in air filter
Running Wawa 93oct gas

Refueled at a different gas station (WAWA). Was going to try Costco but did not have the opportunity to due to timing. With the new gas, I have noticed now that only 1 out of 4 logs shows a knock and its only one time instead of multiple. Even though the timing isn't the cleanest, the logs no longer go into negative timing which is good. Overall I am pretty satisfied with how these logs look compared to my previous ones. I am going to try octane booster next tank and see if they improve even more.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f56...729b53eb61772e

Log 2: Knock at 2547 RPM's
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f56...729b53eb617731


https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f56...0b4351832ddc06


https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f56...0b4351832ddc07

Took a quick look through focused on timing. First, there's actually 2 knocks in the 2nd log (again at 5k). But having said that i agree the timing in these logs is totally fine. Having 1 or 2 cyl with small corrections is normal and more or less unavoidable unless your fuel quality is excellent for the tune you are running (or running meth/booster), and when you do have corrections it generally recovers quickly. So yeah, much better than what you had before.