[BimBimM2]

Originally Posted by kern417

Wow, you're really missing the point. No one is saying you can't run colder plugs. But both 94201 and 97506 are in the 8 heat range on NGK's scale. NGK makes a bunch of plugs in the same heat range. Just because they screw in doesn't mean they're the right plug.

Take some time to look up the plugs yourself. All of the details are public knowledge. Just looking at them, you can see that they are physically different. Only one matches the OEM design for the terminal and longer insulator.

And again, ask BMS why they recommend the 97506 over the 94201. I'm sure their highly educated response will surprise all of us.

There is pattern that I started noticing some time ago with both local tuning shops in Minneapolis, and I believe a similar pattern follows with places like BMS, Mission etc.

It goes like: these shops, though are now used to tuning the B58 platform, still cannot escape the mindset of recommending what they thought was correct way to do things with the N54/N55 platform.

For instance, I received the same rhetoric around 94201 vs 95756 plugs from a local shop in Minneapolis: "Yes! We recommend going with the 95756 plugs as they are an upgrade to stock 94201 profile!" Of course I am paraphrasing the gentleman I spoke with, but you get the idea.

[j1980mac]

Originally Posted by BimBimM2

There is pattern that I started noticing some time ago with both local tuning shops in Minneapolis, and I believe a similar pattern follows with places like BMS, Mission etc.

It goes like: these shops, though are now used to tuning the B58 platform, still cannot escape the mindset of recommending what they thought was correct way to do things with the N54/N55 platform.

For instance, I received the same rhetoric around 94201 vs 95756 plugs from a local shop in Minneapolis: "Yes! We recommend going with the 95756 plugs as they are an upgrade to stock 94201 profile!" Of course I am paraphrasing the gentleman I spoke with, but you get the idea.

I can tell you that Alex from Mission Tuning does not recommend the 97506 form factor.

[Fuel-It!]

Originally Posted by j1980mac

This NGK (that BMS sells) is the same exact heat range as the OEM Champions. They are also the same heat range as the new NGKs that actually belong in the car.

There ARE differences in the older NGKs vs the new NGKs. There are a few mm difference in size, in addition, to the form factor also being different at the terminal.

So yes, quit buying the WRONG plugs!

Have a side by side photo of the electrode and strap of each plug?

[kern417]

Originally Posted by Fuel-It!

Have a side by side photo of the electrode and strap of each plug?

94201: https://www.ngk.com/product.aspx?zpid=57056
95706: https://www.ngk.com/product.aspx?zpid=41489

[j1980mac]

Originally Posted by Fuel-It!

Have a side by side photo of the electrode and strap of each plug?

Sure, but I don't have the 94201 to showcase. They are installed. Here are the differences in Champion and Beru plugs (that are made to fit the B58).

As you can see, the 97506 (when tight) would be at least 2-3mm closer to the piston.

Also, the 97506 isn't as insulated as the other plugs.

Additionally, the more obvious reason is the difference in terminal designs. The coil springs sit better in the intention.

[MissionPerformance]

I was just let aware of this thread and would like to offer an explanation and some more info on this.
blckz06, its very unfortunate that you have suffered the typical Champion (if we can even call those plugs that) failure, but don't worry about it just yet. There are 2 typical ways the stock Champions can fail.

First being 100% "harmless", where the plug cracks internally inside the insulator body. This usually happens on plug 5 and 6 on the F30 chassis as those plugs are hard to reach, and the tech will angle the extension a bit too much and introduce a hairline crack. Over time, this crack grows and plug starts to misfire. On stock tune, with low boost, you are not stressing the plugs as much and a lot of "defects" are not felt, but with a higher boost tune, you will stress that damaged plug and end up with drive train error. Since you said that after flashing to stock your car drove fine, then I would not worry much about this situation. Just swap the plugs to new NGKs and you are done.

Second way the plugs fails is a bit scarier, but still not fatal most of the times. The champion plugs are true garbage, and the negative electrode melts away due to high cylinder temperatures. The good news though, is that the extremely cheap champion plug metal composition actually ends up melting away instead of breaking off. and will escape from the exhaust ports 90% of the time. This has happened to at least 2 other people (they push their cars to the limits very often) as well as our own vehicle. When we tracked our test vehicle, the champion plugs would have to be changed out every few track days to avoid this failure as a cheap safety precaution. The original champion set lasted about 3hours (30 minutes per session of of pure torture) at which point cylinder 1,2 and 4 plugs melted away. After NGK finally released a proper plug for the new B58s, we have swapped to them and had zero failure running PS2 on track and daily for months now.

Here is how Champions end up looking when the Champion melts the "Typical" way. (picture of a plug from our customer):


To this day, we have not heard/seen this failure result in catastrophic engine damage. We are not saying that is not possible, as it for sure is, but the low quality metal used by Champion actually that ends up melting and escaping before damage is caused.


We have never recommended anyone to use Champion plugs over NGK, as NGK is what we use on all of our track or daily cars as long as that option exists. Until recently, we recommended all of our customers to replace (if possible) their stock champion plugs with a fresh set of Champions gapped to 0.022" as NGK was never an option. Some people ran the 97506 (plug from N55 platform) with decent success, but in reality this plug is worse or just as bad as the champion. The 97506 sits lower in the head and also has different terminal (top part) shape. On the 97506 plug, the coil clamps around the plugs while the B58 coils actually slid inside the plug and plug acts like a cup for the coil. Think of it as a 97506 plug having convex terminal and concave coil boot. Now, since the B58 is opposite of that, and plug is concave and coil boot is convex. If you put the 97506 plug into B58, you are combining a convex Plug with convex coil. This results in reduced surface area for the connection and you end up stressing out the electrical system. At first, you are stressing the factory coil, but over time you will be overloading the Computer's physical capacity to drive that setup and will melt the coil drivers.

But finally GOOD NEWS: As of just recently, NGK has finally released a PROPER plug for the B58, though stock is usually low and most stores are sold out. The part number is 95248. This is the BEST plug available at this moment and miles ahead of the factory Champion. On the new NGK setup, we even recommend 0.025" as that is sufficient enough for stock turbo setup.

Incorrect 97506 plug Vs Proper 95248



blckz06, if your car runs well and you don't have a missfire, then you are most likely fine. Your dealer is probably using a slight scoring to support their want to replace the motor. Remember, dealers do get paid to do warranty work so if they can use a missfire code combined with slight scoring marks, they will take advantage of a motor change claim.
A stock motor with 5K miles can have very slight scoring on cylinder walls which should not effect performance in any way. So unless your dealer changes your motor for free, I would suggest running compression and leak down test on all cylinders just for piece of mind.

[E90ROXS]

Based on MP comment about NGK's plugs. Can someone confirm if this is the right one?
https://www.ngk.com/product.aspx?zpid=57057


THanks!!!!

[BPAC306]

Originally Posted by E90ROXS

Based on MP comment about NGK's plugs. Can someone confirm if this is the right one?
https://www.ngk.com/product.aspx?zpid=57057


THanks!!!!

Just purchased plugs from the NGK website... 94201 is the OEM B58 Plug

Laser Iridium Spark Plug Laser Iridium Spark Plug SILZKGR8B8S
94201 Actual OE Part; 60,000 mi OE Mfr Recommended Service Interval
0.030" GAP Quantity 6

[j1980mac]

According to the NGK spec sheets, the 95248 is 2mm longer, which would therefore place it that much further in the head (vs 94201).

So essentially gapping the 95248 to .025 would be like gapping the 94201 to .022?

[j1980mac]

Originally Posted by E90ROXS

Based on MP comment about NGK's plugs. Can someone confirm if this is the right one?
https://www.ngk.com/product.aspx?zpid=57057


THanks!!!!

Not the right one.

[GT500R]

Originally Posted by BPAC306

Just purchased plugs from the NGK website... 94201 is the OEM B58 Plug

Laser Iridium Spark Plug Laser Iridium Spark Plug SILZKGR8B8S
94201 Actual OE Part; 60,000 mi OE Mfr Recommended Service Interval
0.030" GAP Quantity 6

https://www.ngk.com/product.aspx?zpid=57056

Correct?

[B58 parts]

Originally Posted by MissionPerformance

Second way the plugs fails is a bit scarier, but still not fatal most of the times. The champion plugs are true garbage, and the negative electrode melts away due to high cylinder temperatures. The good news though, is that the extremely cheap champion plug metal composition actually ends up melting away

So like I said on page 1, they are confirmed lawnmower plugs. In-spite of the fan boys thinking the brilliant engineers in Munich never make any bad decisions, nor ever do anything to keep costs down, nor never have golf course deals with a supplier. I couldn't believe what a difference the NGK plugs made, really it's like a different engine much more lively.

The part number is 95248.

As others have stated I think you've got that number wrong. Their website says the 95248 is for the "i8" which was that weird 3 cyl electric thing they tried to call a supercar.

The reach in on the 94201 and 97506 is the same 26.5mm, where as the 95248 reaches in 28.5mm .. so I'd be very afraid of the 95248 unless you know that's right. 2mm might just be enough to contact the piston. Do you know something we don't or should you edit that 95248 to 94201 so some poor reader who doesn't do homework doesn't end up pulling their engine.

I've been getting on fine with the 97506 but figured I'd be better off getting them out of there before things go bad. Bummer, BMS kinda misinformed me there....

I just ordered the last three 4 packs of 94201 on amazon, so I'll have 2 sets of 6. I didn't want to hog them all but I had to in order to get a set. If anyone is looking for a set of 94201 message me I can mail them to you as soon as they arrive.

[BPAC306]

Originally Posted by YuminNuman

So like I said on page 1, they are confirmed lawnmower plugs. In-spite of the fan boys thinking the brilliant engineers in Munich never make any bad decisions, nor ever do anything to keep costs down, nor never have golf course deals with a supplier. I couldn't believe what a difference the NGK plugs made, really it's like a different engine much more lively.



As others have stated I think you've got that number wrong. Their website says the 95248 is for the "i8" which was that weird 3 cyl electric thing they tried to call a supercar.

The reach in on the 94201 and 97506 is the same 26.5mm, where as the 95248 reaches in 28.5mm .. so I'd be very afraid of the 95248 unless you know that's right. 2mm might just be enough to contact the piston. Do you know something we don't or should you edit that 95248 to 94201 so some poor reader who doesn't do homework doesn't end up pulling their engine.

I've been getting on fine with the 97506 but figured I'd be better off getting them out of there before things go bad. Bummer, BMS kinda misinformed me there....

I just ordered the last three 4 packs of 94201 on amazon, so I'll have 2 sets of 6. I didn't want to hog them all but I had to in order to get a set. If anyone is looking for a set of 94201 message me I can mail them to you as soon as they arrive.

ugh... why in the world, with all these fakes, trust amazon at this point and not just buy direct from the NGK website? I got mine in 2 days.

[kern417]

Originally Posted by YuminNuman

So like I said on page 1, they are confirmed lawnmower plugs. In-spite of the fan boys thinking the brilliant engineers in Munich never make any bad decisions, nor ever do anything to keep costs down, nor never have golf course deals with a supplier. I couldn't believe what a difference the NGK plugs made, really it's like a different engine much more lively.



As others have stated I think you've got that number wrong. Their website says the 95248 is for the "i8" which was that weird 3 cyl electric thing they tried to call a supercar.

The reach in on the 94201 and 97506 is the same 26.5mm, where as the 95248 reaches in 28.5mm .. so I'd be very afraid of the 95248 unless you know that's right. 2mm might just be enough to contact the piston. Do you know something we don't or should you edit that 95248 to 94201 so some poor reader who doesn't do homework doesn't end up pulling their engine.

I've been getting on fine with the 97506 but figured I'd be better off getting them out of there before things go bad. Bummer, BMS kinda misinformed me there....

I just ordered the last three 4 packs of 94201 on amazon, so I'll have 2 sets of 6. I didn't want to hog them all but I had to in order to get a set. If anyone is looking for a set of 94201 message me I can mail them to you as soon as they arrive.

no one is saying they aren't lawn mower plugs, just that you can't blame a tuner for recommending OEM.

and i second the amazon comment. double and triple check the stock gap when you get them. also read the link i posted and do what you can to verify they are genuine before installing them.

[j1980mac]

I'm very happy with the stock .029 gap on the 94201 NGKs (BM3 Stage 2 93).

I don't believe that the extra 2mm on the 95248 would be equivalent to gapping (shorten the distance) .025 as Alex suggested, but may be the perfect recipe?

MissionPerformance, care to add more value?

[Fuel-It!]

Be careful, a lot of the NGK plugs on amazon are fakes. I ordered in a set of 94201's for our B58 PS2 car to test. If they are good I'll talk BMS in to carrying them and suggesting them for B58 models. I also have a set of B58 Brisk plugs coming in that look promising.

[j1980mac]

Dude, Brisk look awesome! They cropped up in my search when I was on the hunt for better plugs, but I never did find a part number.

[Fuel-It!]

Originally Posted by j1980mac

Dude, Brisk look awesome! They cropped up in my search when I was on the hunt for better plugs, but I never did find a part number.

I'll post it after I test.. Don't want to do it before I know and someone ends up blowing up.

[j1980mac]

Definitely. Hope your testing is a success.

[PURE340i]

Originally Posted by Fuel-It!

Be careful, a lot of the NGK plugs on amazon are fakes. I ordered in a set of 94201's for our B58 PS2 car to test. If they are good I'll talk BMS in to carrying them and suggesting them for B58 models. I also have a set of B58 Brisk plugs coming in that look promising.

I use to run the Brisk silver plugs on my 2016 GTI. Which model or part # did you end up with? I looked on their website before going NGK and never found any.

[CntryClub007]

Originally Posted by Fuel-It!

Be careful, a lot of the NGK plugs on amazon are fakes. I ordered in a set of 94201's for our B58 PS2 car to test. If they are good I'll talk BMS in to carrying them and suggesting them for B58 models. I also have a set of B58 Brisk plugs coming in that look promising.

Thanks - Still slightly confused, 94201 or 95248 is what I would need? FBO. Stock turbo, MHD BEF w/ JB4 & WMI. Downpipe/Exhaust. Intake etc...

Going to pull my champion plugs. TBH, I would love to install a plug and not deal with all of this gapping.

Sorry for the newb questions in advance.

[kern417]

Originally Posted by CntryClub007

Thanks - Still slightly confused, 94201 or 95248 is what I would need? FBO. Stock turbo, MHD BEF w/ JB4 & WMI. Downpipe/Exhaust. Intake etc...

Going to pull my champion plugs. TBH, I would love to install a plug and not deal with all of this gapping.

Sorry for the newb questions in advance.

94201

No matter what, gapping is recommended. But you can try to run without a tighter gap and see if there are no issues in your logs. I didn't regap my plugs until I started seeing timing issues.