[teezee]

Originally Posted by bimmerjph

Are we getting the 335i touring?

no

Originally Posted by rconti

Press release:
http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=714556

F31 328i8AT and F31 328xi8AT.

No manual transmission.

No diesel.

No 335.

No sale.

[Remonster]

A question about the M135i? Okay, how about "Why isn't it being sold in the United States?" We're your largest market and we're currently obsessed with gas mileage. We do not want hybrids that get us single-digit MPG improvements while forcing us to make other concessions (weight, long-term reliability, additional cost up front) and we would absolutely love a small hatch that can fit lots of people and stuff while still getting impressive gas mileage.

The STI sold like crazy when it went to the hatchback bodystyle and the Audi A3 is all over the place. These cars occupy the exact same market space that the M135i would fit into, and it would be the only rear wheel drive option and also the most powerful. I honestly cannot see a scenario where it will fail to sell like crazy over here. You'll certainly sell more 1 series hatches than you did 5 GTs or ActiveHybrid X6s...

Also, I know you're trying to push the hybrid nonsense in the US but we'd love a 320d instead. Why can't we have that?

[Booster]

Add another "lost sale" to the list if the F31 does not have a manual option...

That would be such a bummer

[javamon]

Originally Posted by rconti

Press release:
http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=714556

F31 328i8AT and F31 328xi8AT.

No manual transmission.

No diesel.

No 335.

No sale.

Is it totally confirmed that it's auto only? It's pretty clear that the auto is standard, and I know I'm clutching at straws here, but in the "Innovative 8-speed automatic transmission: efficient power transmission and optimal ratios" section, there's the following line at the end of the paragraph. Not sure if they're saying this just for comparison, or if it's a legitimate option for the US market:

This all helps to explain why, when fitted with the 8-speed automatic transmission, the new BMW 3 Series Sport Wagon’s even lower fuel consumption than models equipped with the 6-speed manual transmission.

[SCOTT26]

You only have to look at the market to see why BMW have not fullfilled your wish-list with the BMW 3er Touring.
In the state of the US Market regarding imported euro wagons we are almost at the end, BMW initially did not want to import the 3er Touring but were convinced to do so. But when you look at the X1 Many have asked why the early facelift? Has the X1 not been as successful as it is made out to be?

The answer is... the X1 refresh is effectively for introducing the car to the US Market . The X1 has had a successful establishment and maturity stage to determine what works and what did not , something which has been applied and rectified for the new X1 for launching in the US.
Make no mistake BMW are more focused on the X1 repeating its success in the North American market than the watching the 3er Touring struggle in a segment that is in severe decline. It is inevitable that US customers will seek solace in the X1 and X3 more so than the 3er Touring.
Something which not only BMW but Audi, Volvo and Mercedes-Benz have discovered when their equivalent Wagons are lined up with equivalent SUV's.

[ValeYellow46]

Originally Posted by BMWCali

Which dealership??

The BMW Store in Cincinnati Ohio. PM me if you would like more information!

[Red Bread]

Thanks all knowing Germans, we will not be buying another BMW because clearly you know better than ourselves what we'd like. X1, ha, eat it.

[BMWCali]

Originally Posted by ValeYellow46

The BMW Store in Cincinnati Ohio. PM me if you would like more information!

Thanks, Vale! It won't let me PM you until you have at least 10 posts. But I found their contact info online. Waiting until the end of today to see what allocation my CA can grab. If nothing in July, I'll give them a call and see if I can get that end of July prod date. Thanks!

[rconti]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Make no mistake BMW are more focused on the X1 repeating its success in the North American market than the watching the 3er Touring struggle in a segment that is in severe decline. It is inevitable that US customers will seek solace in the X1 and X3 more so than the 3er Touring.
Something which not only BMW but Audi, Volvo and Mercedes-Benz have discovered when their equivalent Wagons are lined up with equivalent SUV's.

I don't disagree with your assessment of what the manufacturers are doing, but is the Euro wagon segment, as you say, in severe decline? It seems to me that it has *never* done hugely well since wagons were brought back to the US in the late 90s. I haven't really seen evidence that sales went down; if anything, they're overall higher than they were 10 years ago, but not by much. I haven't seen the numbers, though, so I'd definitely be interested if anyone has a link to some.

The SUV market is the one that is in severe decline, finally, thank god. However, sales are still much higher than wagons, and the cute ute market is quite hot and largely picking up where SUVs left off It's a market for people who basically want a wagon, but either don't like the image of a wagon (as if the image of an SUV has less stigma!), or who want something that somehow makes their lifestyle look more "active".

Also, it's worth noting that CUVs appeal to the baby-hauling crowd, as it has the utility of a wagon, and today's ever-heavier and ever-larger baby seats, that barely fit in the backseat of anything smaller than an Excursion, are much easier to put into a higher vehicle that don't involve as much bending over to fit.

For me? I grew up taking roadtrips in the family station wagon, which was FAR from cool. Sure, in 1992, the Ford Explorer looked cool and rugged to me as a male of almost-driving age. I got over it over the years, though, after realizing how miserably these piles of crap drove. To be sure, BMW and other makers have done amazing things with the SUV's handling, but the still-comparatively poor handling of an SUV is hardly compensated for by the poor mileage and mommy-mobile looks. The wagon does everything a sedan does, with all of the space of an SUV for bikes, skis, and other "lifestyle equipment" inside, an easier-to-load low roof rack (might even be able to fit a bike on the roof in your garage -- try that with an SUV!) Not to mention, to my eye, a much better sleek look that stands out among a sea of generic boring sedans (which includes BMWs in an area where they're as common as a Camry.. we all want our cars to look a bit unique, yeah?).

Ok, didn't intend for that to turn into a screed/rant/ode to the wagon. I'm done

[ValeYellow46]

Originally Posted by BMWCali

Thanks, Vale! It won't let me PM you until you have at least 10 posts. But I found their contact info online. Waiting until the end of today to see what allocation my CA can grab. If nothing in July, I'll give them a call and see if I can get that end of July prod date. Thanks!

Ask for Chris, I am new car CA here at the dealer.

[BMWCali]

Originally Posted by ValeYellow46

Ask for Chris, I am new car CA here at the dealer.

Will do. Thanks!

[dorkus]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Thanks all knowing Germans, we will not be buying another BMW because clearly you know better than ourselves what we'd like. X1, ha, eat it.

actually, they do have a way of knowing. it's called sales numbers.

Scott26 is absolutely correct. have you guys even looked at touring sales numbers over the years? i believe neither the 5 nor 3 touring have broken 2000 units per annum in recent times. the 5 didn't even break 1k units in 2009, so it's easy to see why it was canceled. it is expensive bringing a car to market (homologation costs, sales support etc.). it is pretty much a sunk marketing cost at this point selling a touring in the States just to appease a handful of enthusiasts and niche buyers who are serve as product evangelists. that's the only reason i could see BMW keeping any touring on the market here. even Audi gave up and canceled the A4 Avant, replacing it with the hopped-up Allroad in an attempt to capture the upscale Subaru Outback segment (which btw itself survived the cancellation of the Legacy Wagon).

personally, i am very, very grateful BMW is bringing the F31 in any form at all Stateside. i honestly thought it was not going to make it, and i'm pretty sure it won't last very long and the X1 will take over.

ok, so now i have a question: will any dealer actually have one of these on the showroom floor in the spring?? finances permitting, i'm 99.99% certain i will be ordering one for ED, and am willing to do it sight unseen... but it would be nice to be able to check out a $45k car before i buy it.

cheers,
dorkus

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by dorkus

actually, they do have a way of knowing. it's called sales numbers.

Scott26 is absolutely correct. have you guys even looked at touring sales numbers over the years? i believe neither the 5 nor 3 touring have broken 2000 units per annum in recent times. the 5 didn't even break 1k units in 2009, so it's easy to see why it was canceled. it is expensive bringing a car to market (homologation costs, sales support etc.). it is pretty much a sunk marketing cost at this point selling a touring in the States just to appease a handful of enthusiasts and niche buyers who are serve as product evangelists. that's the only reason i could see BMW keeping any touring on the market here. even Audi gave up and canceled the A4 Avant, replacing it with the hopped-up Allroad in an attempt to capture the upscale Subaru Outback segment (which btw itself survived the cancellation of the Legacy Wagon).

I agree that any wagon is better than no wagon, but they create their own reality. The E90 was 328i only, and that was just a weak motor for many buyers. The E61 was xDrive only, which added more weight, expense and complexity to what was already a heavy, expensive and complex car. If BMW made more engine choices available for wagons, including an efficient diesel (not the silly 335d) and a choice of a manual, they'd sell more cars. Instead they handicap their offering and claim post facto that we don't buy their cars. No, we just don't buy what you offer, some of us gladly buy things BMW builds, but tells us we don't really want.

As with many of my pointless rants, I recognize there aren't really many good alternatives, so there's that. But finally giving us a decent motor (N20) in the 3er Touring and withholding the manual for arbitrary reasons is just bad business.

[Blake P]

Don't forget the fact that they (this includes BMW, Audi, MB) NEVER advertise wagons or try to discuss the benefits of owning one. It's a pretty half-assed attempt, IMHO.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Blake P

Don't forget the fact that they (this includes BMW, Audi, MB) NEVER advertise wagons or try to discuss the benefits of owning one. It's a pretty half-assed attempt, IMHO.

I'm sure the margin on SUV's is higher, it must be astronomical on SAV's.

I fully admit that part of the blame is on boomers loving them some big, gas guzzling trucks, but I don't want one. Never have, never well.

[dorkus]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

If BMW made more engine choices available for wagons, including an efficient diesel (not the silly 335d) and a choice of a manual, they'd sell more cars.

it could be a chicken-and-egg problem like that, but i highly doubt it. again, look at the sales numbers. the vast majority of 3 series sold are of the 328i variant. of those, in the Northeast at least, a very high percentage are x-drive. in Cali i'm sure it's different, but the Northeast is a huge market, and i see many more 328i x-drives than 335i's. way way many more. add to that the higher cost of the touring, and you've got a $50k+ small station wagon. yeah, that'll sell well.

let's be honest really. it's not because BMW sucks. it's because Americans' taste for SUVs sucks. or put more charitably... the touring is simply not a good fit for our market.

Originally Posted by Red Bread

I'm sure the margin on SUV's is higher, it must be astronomical on SAV's.

I fully admit that part of the blame is on boomers loving them some big, gas guzzling trucks.

well, there you go. pretty simple law of supply and demand, really.

[dorkus]

p.s. i'd hardly call the E90 328i underpowered. in x-drive form, yes, it could be peppier (i really don't like x-drive). but w/RWD, it has plenty enough power for most people - had a loaner once and i was having a hoot revving it up in passing maneuvers and onramps. but then, i'm coming from a wimpy E46 325i, so my bar is set a little lower.

i'd love to have the 320d touring here too btw, but i'm not holding my breath. i'll take the first non-xdrive touring i can get!

[dorkus]

Originally Posted by Blake P

Don't forget the fact that they (this includes BMW, Audi, MB) NEVER advertise wagons or try to discuss the benefits of owning one. It's a pretty half-assed attempt, IMHO.

says the person driving an X3!

[ynguldyn]

Some data that may be useful in this conversation.

328Xi auto:

2009: 1118 (A539600 - A540717)
2010: 533 (A540718 - A541250)
2011: 1861 (A541251 - A543111)
2012: 741 (A543112 - A543852)

328Xi manual:

2009: 175 (A544600 - A544774)
2010: 131 (A544775 - A544905)
2011: 357 (A544906 - A545099, A950900 - A951162)
2012: 166 (A951163 - A951328)

328i auto:

2009: 553 (A190700 - A191252)
2010: 177 (A191253 - A191429)
2011: 720 (A191430 - A192149)
2012: 294 (A192150 - A192443)

328i manual:

2009: 53 (A189700 - A189752)
2010: 32 (A189753 - A189784)
2011: 124 (A189785 - A189908)
2012: 37 (A189909 - A189945)

[rconti]

2009 328Xi manual take rate: 13.5%
2010: 19.7%
2011: 16.1%
2012: 18.3%

2009 328i manual take rate: 8.7%
2010: 15.3%
2011: 14.7%
2012: 11.2%

Interesting. If these numbers are for the touring only (and they must be, since the total numbers are quite low), the take rate is higher than I would have expected. Furthermore, they don't seem to decline over time in a meaningful way. Granted, a few years is a small time horizon.

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

Some data that may be useful in this conversation.

328Xi auto:

2009: 1118 (A539600 - A540717)
2010: 533 (A540718 - A541250)
2011: 1861 (A541251 - A543111)
2012: 741 (A543112 - A543852)

328Xi manual:

2009: 175 (A544600 - A544774)
2010: 131 (A544775 - A544905)
2011: 357 (A544906 - A545099, A950900 - A951162)
2012: 166 (A951163 - A951328)

328i auto:

2009: 553 (A190700 - A191252)
2010: 177 (A191253 - A191429)
2011: 720 (A191430 - A192149)
2012: 294 (A192150 - A192443)

328i manual:

2009: 53 (A189700 - A189752)
2010: 32 (A189753 - A189784)
2011: 124 (A189785 - A189908)
2012: 37 (A189909 - A189945)

[Booster]

Soooo....

Final answer if we are getting a manual option in the US for the F31?

[rconti]

Originally Posted by Booster

Soooo....

Final answer if we are getting a manual option in the US for the F31?

My reading of the press release is "no."

Others are holding out hope based on the vague wording and the fact that the official decisions haven't been finalized.

I just got an email response to my inquiry from last week:

"Our BMW engineering and design teams are dedicated to creating vehicles that move today’s consumers and their demand for enhanced utility and more versatility. Customer feedback plays an integral role in improving product design and development. We appreciate the time you have taken to share your thoughts; your sentiments will be heard and considered."

so, the answer is, nobody really knows.