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      08-03-2017, 09:25 AM   #23
jnecr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle_Figueroa View Post
A 320 has the same engine as a 328d....

320i he meant... not 320d. Right out of the box a 320i is faster than a 328d.
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      08-03-2017, 12:43 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnecr View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle_Figueroa View Post
A 320 has the same engine as a 328d....

320i he meant... not 320d. Right out of the box a 320i is faster than a 328d.
Actually it's not. If you read specs. Here you go

Same horse power but it takes he 320i higher RPMs to achieve that and the the low end torque on the 328d alone destroys it by 96 ft/lbs. Polus the 328d has a high top speed at 142 vs 130. The specs do show a 0.2 increase in 0-60 for the 320i but I've achieved 0-60 in 6.9s so I'm not sure with that. Even if the 320i has a 0.2s difference, beyond that at higher gears the diesel kicks in and would blow out the 320i. I thought you guys went by facts and not opinions?
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      08-03-2017, 01:55 PM   #25
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Facts? It's right there in your screenshots.

320i 0-60MPH = 7.1s
328d 0-60MPH = 7.3s

What more do you need? Yes, the diesel has better torque, but I'm guessing you don't have a good grasp on the difference between torque and horsepower and what exactly horsepower means. Look at the RPM for the peak HP for each of those. The 320i is way higher, which means they can gear the transmission lower and take advantage of the torque higher in the RPM range.

Don't forget that you're also comparing the lowest end of the N20 with the mid-range of the N47. In Europe there is also the 318d which uses the same N47. The straight comparison would be the EU 328d with the 328i.

328i: 240 hp @ 5,000–6,000 rpm
260 lbf·ft @ 1,250-4800

328d (EU): 181 hp @ 4,000 rpm
280 lbf·ft @ 1,750-2,750 rpm

Not hard to see which one of those is going to be faster....

Edit: I'd also like to say, I love a diesel, I've only owned diesel cars since 2004 and have no interest in going back. But, on pure speed, gas engines will dominate because of their increased RPM range. Diesels may feel faster because of that low end torque, but when you're limited to 4,000 RPM you're never going win any races.

Second edit: I've found multiple sources that list the top speed of the 320i to be higher than 130MPH.
Car and Driver lists it at 155MPH (I don't believe that)
Topspeed.com lists it as 146 (more believable)
Top Gear also lists it as 146MPH.
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      08-03-2017, 02:41 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnecr View Post
Facts? It's right there in your screenshots.

320i 0-60MPH = 7.1s
328d 0-60MPH = 7.3s

What more do you need? Yes, the diesel has better torque, but I'm guessing you don't have a good grasp on the difference between torque and horsepower and what exactly horsepower means. Look at the RPM for the peak HP for each of those. The 320i is way higher, which means they can gear the transmission lower and take advantage of the torque higher in the RPM range.

Don't forget that you're also comparing the lowest end of the N20 with the mid-range of the N47. In Europe there is also the 318d which uses the same N47. The straight comparison would be the EU 328d with the 328i.

328i: 240 hp @ 5,000–6,000 rpm
260 lbf·ft @ 1,250-4800

328d (EU): 181 hp @ 4,000 rpm
280 lbf·ft @ 1,750-2,750 rpm

Not hard to see which one of those is going to be faster....

Edit: I'd also like to say, I love a diesel, I've only owned diesel cars since 2004 and have no interest in going back. But, on pure speed, gas engines will dominate because of their increased RPM range. Diesels may feel faster because of that low end torque, but when you're limited to 4,000 RPM you're never going win any races.

Second edit: I've found multiple sources that list the top speed of the 320i to be higher than 130MPH.
Car and Driver lists it at 155MPH (I don't believe that)
Topspeed.com lists it as 146 (more believable)
Top Gear also lists it as 146MPH.
Well I know the 328i is clearly faster. But someone above was trying to compare the 320i. I'm not trying to say that diesels are the ultimate race car. They are not most of the time. I just don't tolerate people claiming all they are is economic options. Also I'm getting facts directly from BMW genius. I just personally think that there are much more pros than con cons when t comes to diesel. Gasoline you get more speed up to a limit, not economic, corrosive short life engines, more maintenance, etc. I also think when arguing a point like this it's hard to do it with diesel cars, yes Europe has way more diesel car innovation. The market here is just so little because of green freaks. I didn't buy a 328d for a race car, I built for a reliable, economic, and still performance based vehicle. I'm already going to get a DPF delete to get rid of all the emission bullshit they stuff in that car. All this segueing and nobody has answered me on my actual question. Therefore I will not be responding back until someone can provide me with useful information.
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      08-03-2017, 02:57 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle_Figueroa View Post
I'm familiar with pickup trucks that add coal switches and wondered about cars doing it. I have seen a lot of high performance diesel cars that do it but I've also seen some stock VW diesels doing it. Granted it does not produce much smoke for such a small car but it does increase your launch speed and adds some Power. Has anyone attempted this modification on a BMW and would this void any manufacturer warranties or cause and error codes?
Ok, to answer your question.

Assuming you could actually figure out how to do it, then yes, it will invalidate your warranty. You'll also almost certainly get EGR failure - which require the EGR to be replaced, at a cost of (at a guess) $400+ (In the UK, an EGR replacement on one of these is usually £300 or so). Again, your modifications will mean that your warranty will NOT cover EGR failures.
Please also read my other post regarding the car attempting to do active regens (it'll be picking up fault codes for pressure on the DPF, as it'll be expecting pressures to change, and they won't be), and enough active regens can lead to excess diesel being dumped into the sump. The oil level gets high enough, and the engine goes into a 'runaway', where it starts running on that diluted sump oil/diesel mix, and revs up to the limiter. Even switching off the engine won't help at that point, it will run, bouncing off the limiter, until it self-destructs.
So, you want to wreck your engine, with no warranty cover, and a $10k+ bill for a new engine : this is the perfect way to go about it.

Do come back and tell us how it all went in a few months.
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      08-03-2017, 03:02 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle_Figueroa View Post
All this segueing and nobody has answered me on my actual question.
Quote:
Has anyone attempted this modification on a BMW and would this void any manufacturer warranties or cause and error codes?
Yes, they did answer it.

No, nobody has done it.
Yes, it will completely 100% void any engine and emissions warranty.
Yes, it will clog your DPF the first time you use it and your car will go into limp mode, the error codes will be numerous. You will have to replace your DPF which one person listed as a $2500 part, it's likely more than that.

If you remove your DPF then you have voided your car's warranty already. So we can ignore that. I assume you'd block your car's EGR as well, if you didn't do this then you will clog your intake quite rapidly. Both of these require extensive coding to remove all the error codes and limp modes that would occur.

In short, you're completely on your own, I doubt any tuner would really be too interested in helping you install a "coal switch." However, they can definitely help in removing DPF/EGR and coding it properly.
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      08-03-2017, 03:22 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnecr View Post
Yes, they did answer it.

No, nobody has done it.
Yes, it will completely 100% void any engine and emissions warranty.
Yes, it will clog your DPF the first time you use it and your car will go into limp mode, the error codes will be numerous. You will have to replace your DPF which one person listed as a $2500 part, it's likely more than that.

If you remove your DPF then you have voided your car's warranty already. So we can ignore that. I assume you'd block your car's EGR as well, if you didn't do this then you will clog your intake quite rapidly. Both of these require extensive coding to remove all the error codes and limp modes that would occur.

In short, you're completely on your own, I doubt any tuner would really be too interested in helping you install a "coal switch." However, they can definitely help in removing DPF/EGR and coding it properly.
As far as I'm aware, you can't do an EGR removal/blanking on these, like you could do on previous generations of car. The EGR has sensors, and as the valve closes and opens it expects to see changes in the airflow around those sensors. No change = fault code and limp mode.
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      08-03-2017, 04:08 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robbiep View Post
As far as I'm aware, you can't do an EGR removal/blanking on these, like you could do on previous generations of car. The EGR has sensors, and as the valve closes and opens it expects to see changes in the airflow around those sensors. No change = fault code and limp mode.
Just like any other car, you have to code out these fault codes. All VWs would throw fault codes but tuners could change the coding for the sensors. I'm assuming BMW would be the same way? I've heard people talk about doing that in the US with the E90 335d. For sure they aren't just putting a blocking plate on the EGR. It's always been more complicated than that.
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      08-03-2017, 04:14 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnecr View Post
Just like any other car, you have to code out these fault codes. All VWs would throw fault codes but tuners could change the coding for the sensors. I'm assuming BMW would be the same way? I've heard people talk about doing that in the US with the E90 335d. For sure they aren't just putting a blocking plate on the EGR. It's always been more complicated than that.
Over here (where diesels have been commonplace for a long time) people have been talking about doing EGR blanking and attempting to code out faults since the F3x came out. As far as I'm aware, nobody has managed it. None of the 'typical' DPF/EGR delete companies advertise it, and I've never heard of it being successfully done.
Basically, it was so easy to do that the emissions regulators forced the manufacturers to make it a lot more difficult. From what I understand from a couple of people who have looked at the software, it's really heavily integrated into the systems, and designed to catch deletes and put the car into limp mode.
In comparison, yes, it was relatively easy with the E90 models.
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      08-03-2017, 05:01 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robbiep View Post
Over here (where diesels have been commonplace for a long time) people have been talking about doing EGR blanking and attempting to code out faults since the F3x came out. As far as I'm aware, nobody has managed it. None of the 'typical' DPF/EGR delete companies advertise it, and I've never heard of it being successfully done.
Basically, it was so easy to do that the emissions regulators forced the manufacturers to make it a lot more difficult. From what I understand from a couple of people who have looked at the software, it's really heavily integrated into the systems, and designed to catch deletes and put the car into limp mode.
In comparison, yes, it was relatively easy with the E90 models.
That's pretty normal, happens with every refresh. Somebody will crack it, the thing holding it up for the N47 may be that the N57 is a much more popular tuning engine so not as many tuners would be working on the N47.
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      10-05-2017, 11:04 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adamr916 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle_Figueroa View Post
A 320 has the same engine as a 328d.... I didn't realize there were so many eco sensitive green freaks here. Welcome! I'm your worst enemy. If coal is such a waste of power, go watch videos of truck pulls and even or even high performance diesel races. They all roll coal. Also you keep saying that smoke doesn't provide power, you're right, it's the result of power. It's the result of feeding that hungry engine as much fuel as it can possible handle and more. Here's a video of a tuned 335d rolling coal on a dyno. Thought you might enjoy!
How does the 320/328 have the same engine as a 328d? Pretty sure the N20/N26/B26/B28 and the N47/B47 are two completely different engines from an engineering standpoint. Sure, they're both 2.0 liters, but that's about it. I wouldn't call us "green freaks", more like people who understand the engineering that goes into a good diesel engine. Rolling coal does not make power, building and tuning make the power. A properly built and tuned diesel engine, whether in car or truck form, will hardly produce any smoke. Now yes, you can delete all of the emissions stuff off of it and leave the tune stock and play with the injection pump to where it dumps the fuel into the chamber, but what's the point in that? Just to show off? No diesel engine is designed from factory to roll coal, even the older ones, it was more a byproduct of the engines of the time. But modern diesels are very clean, and if tuned properly, will emit less pollutants than the comparable gas engines, which is why they are so popular in Europe, that and the tax break on diesel fuel.
I didn?t mean that it was the same engine lol oops and smoke is for show of course
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      11-05-2017, 01:25 AM   #34
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Gotta say, I got behind a Golf TDI yesterday. It had a fart can size exhaust, and was just pooring out black smoke. I mean the slightest goose, and it poored out. Silver car, but the whole back end was just sooty black.

Between the 4" plus exhaust, having a black butt, and all the smoke, I couldn't stop laughing. People really think that looks cool?
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      05-16-2018, 02:13 PM   #35
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"Rolling coal" adds ZERO power to it from the point before additional fueling even starts to register visible smoke.. Costs you a big fuel penalty and skyhigh EGT's, enough to damage many diesels quickly (not many can actually tolerate it).

I like as much power as I can get like the next guy, and am no enviro-nazi. But rolling coal even without emissions equipment to damage...just doesn't make any sense.
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      05-16-2018, 03:35 PM   #36
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eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek!!!

Well done, folks. This...............literally brought tears to my eyes. I do not possess the patience to even attempt to rectify all the astronomical ASSumptions incorrectly made by ole 'coal-roller-billy'.

I stumbled upon this thread while searching for something else and even decided to join just so I can add a comment.
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      05-16-2018, 03:44 PM   #37
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Don't bother with the Dinan sport. I have it on my 328d wagon and gained a measly 9hp at the wheels (BTW the "race" mode doesn't really do anything over stock and the "sport+" mode gives the largest "gain"). Even the butt dyno can barely tell a difference.

For bench tunes FixMyVW in GA does the JR Canadian tune in the US. There's also Mission Performance in SoCal.
Rocketchip in Red Lion PA also tunes these cars
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      05-16-2018, 08:10 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by mpm01 View Post
Well done, folks. This...............literally brought tears to my eyes. I do not possess the patience to even attempt to rectify all the astronomical ASSumptions incorrectly made by ole 'coal-roller-billy'.

I stumbled upon this thread while searching for something else and even decided to join just so I can add a comment.
Same here. I wish I had popcorn to watch this shit show.
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      06-11-2018, 03:34 PM   #39
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Gotta love rednecks Always good for a laugh....
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      06-15-2018, 10:20 PM   #40
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I thought this was pretty spot on.
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