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      01-11-2020, 01:00 AM   #1
Astone22
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Brembo caliper install

Does anyone know what steps would need to be taken to install m sport brakes ? I currently have the Bosch brakes
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      01-11-2020, 01:39 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Astone22 View Post
Does anyone know what steps would need to be taken to install m sport brakes ? I currently have the Bosch brakes
You don't provide any details about what year or model car you have? Do you already understand what parts are needed and just want to understand the installation? Or need advice on both? I've done a couple brake upgrades so I understand the issues.

There can be caveats on what parts are needed depending on which car you are starting with. Do you have 17" wheels or 18" wheels? The brakes are dependent on which size wheels because the largest only fit under 18" wheels.

Watch the Kies Motorsports videos where Bryan replaces brake rotors and pads. That's essentially the installation part. Again with some caveats.

Google "Kies Motorsports brake rotors videos"
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      01-11-2020, 04:51 AM   #3
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I'll also be upgrading mine soon I'm just waiting for front pads to arrive, I'm upgrading mine to the 340mm up front and 345mm rears ( currently juts have the single piston sliding calipers front and rear). From what I've read it seem to be a straight forward swap and fingers crossed it is! I think bleeding them might be the trickiest part, I'm putting in braided brake lines aswell so I will have a lot of air in my system.

Interesting to hear from people aswell who have done the swap, is it as simple as it seems?
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      01-11-2020, 07:39 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by kmall10 View Post
I'll also be upgrading mine soon I'm just waiting for front pads to arrive, I'm upgrading mine to the 340mm up front and 345mm rears ( currently juts have the single piston sliding calipers front and rear). From what I've read it seem to be a straight forward swap and fingers crossed it is! I think bleeding them might be the trickiest part, I'm putting in braided brake lines aswell so I will have a lot of air in my system.

Interesting to hear from people aswell who have done the swap, is it as simple as it seems?
340/345 (front/rear in mm) is a great combination that doesn't nose dive under very hard braking like 340/330. The car will squat more controllably. However note that 345mm in rear requires an 18" wheel minimum.

Check part numbers in realoem website to see if dust shields also need to be changed for larger brakes that are being installed.

Please see photo. Make sure that you order the correct rear 345mm x 24mm rotors for your car, either small rotor hat or large rotor hat. Need to check realoem website, plug in your VIN to see if your car has the smaller 160mm emergency brake drum built inside the rotor hat or the larger 185mm emergency brake. (No, it's not cost effective to attempt to change the size of the EB on a car. Just buy the correct rear rotor.)

Highly recommend stainless steel brake line upgrade. It gives the brake pedal a much more solid feel. The proper order to install is to:

1) screw the new line into the back of new caliper while they are on the bench.

2) keep the brake hose attached to the car and to the old caliper while removing old clips and pads, unbolting the old caliper and hanging it with an old wire coat hanger, string, etc from the suspension spring to get it up and out of the way.

3) Remove old brake rotor.

Note: Often the small rotor screw rusts to hub. Do NOT damage the screw head by hand or with an impact gun. Spray with rust penetrator and let stand. Tap around it with a metal hammer to try to vibrate rusted threads free. Use a handheld impact tool and handheld sledgehammer to free it. (See photos) You have to hit once and reset as it drives in and twists with each hit. I used to put a small amount never-seize compound on threads of new rotor screw but now I install stainless screws from ECS/Turner in the US.

Bolt on the new caliper and install brake pads and clips.

4) unscrew old brake hose from car and screw in new stainless line.

5) install all four new calipers, then completely replace fluid as you bleed the brakes using a pressure bleeder. Always start at rear wheel furthest from the brake fluid reservoir under the hood and work your way closer with each wheel. Remember that the front 4-piston Brembo calipers have two bleeder screws that must be done separately.

Be careful not to allow fluid level in reservoir to get low and allow air in. If bleeding brakes doesn't eliminate air from system that means that micro air bubbles are inside system and specific process has to be used to connect an analyzer to make it vibrate the ABS system to shake bubbles loose so they will bleed out. Check newtis website for process.

6) Make sure to follow the proper brake pad bedding process.

I highly recommend Zimmermann & StopTech rotors, Hawk 5.0 pads, StopTech stainless steel brake lines (~$106 for F30), and G2USA Caliper Paint.

Hope this helps!
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      01-11-2020, 04:22 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnung View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmall10 View Post
I'll also be upgrading mine soon I'm just waiting for front pads to arrive, I'm upgrading mine to the 340mm up front and 345mm rears ( currently juts have the single piston sliding calipers front and rear). From what I've read it seem to be a straight forward swap and fingers crossed it is! I think bleeding them might be the trickiest part, I'm putting in braided brake lines aswell so I will have a lot of air in my system.

Interesting to hear from people aswell who have done the swap, is it as simple as it seems?
340/345 (front/rear in mm) is a great combination that doesn't nose dive under very hard braking like 340/330. The car will squat more controllably. However note that 345mm in rear requires an 18" wheel minimum.

Check part numbers in realoem website to see if dust shields also need to be changed for larger brakes that are being installed.

Please see photo. Make sure that you order the correct rear 345mm x 24mm rotors for your car, either small rotor hat or large rotor hat. Need to check realoem website, plug in your VIN to see if your car has the smaller 160mm emergency brake drum built inside the rotor hat or the larger 185mm emergency brake. (No, it's not cost effective to attempt to change the size of the EB on a car. Just buy the correct rear rotor.)

Highly recommend stainless steel brake line upgrade. It gives the brake pedal a much more solid feel. The proper order to install is to:

1) screw the new line into the back of new caliper while they are on the bench.

2) keep the brake hose attached to the car and to the old caliper while removing old clips and pads, unbolting the old caliper and hanging it with an old wire coat hanger, string, etc from the suspension spring to get it up and out of the way.

3) Remove old brake rotor.

Note: Often the small rotor screw rusts to hub. Do NOT damage the screw head by hand or with an impact gun. Spray with rust penetrator and let stand. Tap around it with a metal hammer to try to vibrate rusted threads free. Use a handheld impact tool and handheld sledgehammer to free it. (See photos) You have to hit once and reset as it drives in and twists with each hit. I used to put a small amount never-seize compound on threads of new rotor screw but now I install stainless screws from ECS/Turner in the US.

Bolt on the new caliper and install brake pads and clips.

4) unscrew old brake hose from car and screw in new stainless line.

5) install all four new calipers, then completely replace fluid as you bleed the brakes using a pressure bleeder. Always start at rear wheel furthest from the brake fluid reservoir under the hood and work your way closer with each wheel. Remember that the front 4-piston Brembo calipers have two bleeder screws that must be done separately.

Be careful not to allow fluid level in reservoir to get low and allow air in. If bleeding brakes doesn't eliminate air from system that means that micro air bubbles are inside system and specific process has to be used to connect an analyzer to make it vibrate the ABS system to shake bubbles loose so they will bleed out. Check newtis website for process.

6) Make sure to follow the proper brake pad bedding process.

I highly recommend Zimmermann & StopTech rotors, Hawk 5.0 pads, StopTech stainless steel brake lines (~$106 for F30), and G2USA Caliper Paint.

Hope this helps!
Thanks Johnung good write up and will be a good help when swapping over! My current 4 series brakes have 312mm discs up front and 300mm rears so this upgrade should definitely be a noticable difference going forward. I have front and rear drilled discs, ebc redstuff pads and goodridge stainless brake pipes to go in, I'm spraying the calipers red and still waiting on pads to arrive before I can install them.

Couple of other questions if you don't mind?

Did you code the brakes after upgrade? reading lots of mixed views on this and the only coding I've done so far is through the bimmercode app

What grade brake fluid did you use? I'm not going to change the fluid as I don't have a proper bleeder system so I will be buying a bottle to top up as I go and I'd imagine I will be losing quite a bit between losing whatever will be in the existing caliper and brake line and then once I change over I will leak fluid changing the pipe and then need extra to fill all voids.
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      01-11-2020, 11:02 PM   #6
johnung
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmall10 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnung View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmall10 View Post
I'll also be upgrading mine soon I'm just waiting for front pads to arrive, I'm upgrading mine to the 340mm up front and 345mm rears ( currently juts have the single piston sliding calipers front and rear). From what I've read it seem to be a straight forward swap and fingers crossed it is! I think bleeding them might be the trickiest part, I'm putting in braided brake lines aswell so I will have a lot of air in my system.

Interesting to hear from people aswell who have done the swap, is it as simple as it seems?
340/345 (front/rear in mm) is a great combination that doesn't nose dive under very hard braking like 340/330. The car will squat more controllably. However note that 345mm in rear requires an 18" wheel minimum.

Check part numbers in realoem website to see if dust shields also need to be changed for larger brakes that are being installed.

Please see photo. Make sure that you order the correct rear 345mm x 24mm rotors for your car, either small rotor hat or large rotor hat. Need to check realoem website, plug in your VIN to see if your car has the smaller 160mm emergency brake drum built inside the rotor hat or the larger 185mm emergency brake. (No, it's not cost effective to attempt to change the size of the EB on a car. Just buy the correct rear rotor.)

Highly recommend stainless steel brake line upgrade. It gives the brake pedal a much more solid feel. The proper order to install is to:

1) screw the new line into the back of new caliper while they are on the bench.

2) keep the brake hose attached to the car and to the old caliper while removing old clips and pads, unbolting the old caliper and hanging it with an old wire coat hanger, string, etc from the suspension spring to get it up and out of the way.

3) Remove old brake rotor.

Note: Often the small rotor screw rusts to hub. Do NOT damage the screw head by hand or with an impact gun. Spray with rust penetrator and let stand. Tap around it with a metal hammer to try to vibrate rusted threads free. Use a handheld impact tool and handheld sledgehammer to free it. (See photos) You have to hit once and reset as it drives in and twists with each hit. I used to put a small amount never-seize compound on threads of new rotor screw but now I install stainless screws from ECS/Turner in the US.

Bolt on the new caliper and install brake pads and clips.

4) unscrew old brake hose from car and screw in new stainless line.

5) install all four new calipers, then completely replace fluid as you bleed the brakes using a pressure bleeder. Always start at rear wheel furthest from the brake fluid reservoir under the hood and work your way closer with each wheel. Remember that the front 4-piston Brembo calipers have two bleeder screws that must be done separately.

Be careful not to allow fluid level in reservoir to get low and allow air in. If bleeding brakes doesn't eliminate air from system that means that micro air bubbles are inside system and specific process has to be used to connect an analyzer to make it vibrate the ABS system to shake bubbles loose so they will bleed out. Check newtis website for process.

6) Make sure to follow the proper brake pad bedding process.

I highly recommend Zimmermann & StopTech rotors, Hawk 5.0 pads, StopTech stainless steel brake lines (~$106 for F30), and G2USA Caliper Paint.

Hope this helps!
Thanks Johnung good write up and will be a good help when swapping over! My current 4 series brakes have 312mm discs up front and 300mm rears so this upgrade should definitely be a noticable difference going forward. I have front and rear drilled discs, ebc redstuff pads and goodridge stainless brake pipes to go in, I'm spraying the calipers red and still waiting on pads to arrive before I can install them.

Couple of other questions if you don't mind?

Did you code the brakes after upgrade? reading lots of mixed views on this and the only coding I've done so far is through the bimmercode app

What grade brake fluid did you use? I'm not going to change the fluid as I don't have a proper bleeder system so I will be buying a bottle to top up as I go and I'd imagine I will be losing quite a bit between losing whatever will be in the existing caliper and brake line and then once I change over I will leak fluid changing the pipe and then need extra to fill all voids.
This will be a huge upgrade that you can really feel. I really recommend G2USA Caliper Paint over anything that you can spray. It's a two part epoxy-like coating like you brush on and it levels out as it dries, eliminating brush marks and forming a hard finish that doesn't fade. It's much more chip resistant than the stock finishes on the M Sport and M Performance brake calipers. They have many stock colors and custom BMW colors too!

Just talked to a friend who said that front shields were easy to upgrade but rear shield replacement would require hub removal. There is a process to trim the metal on the existing rear shields to allow larger brakes to fit. Search and I'm sure that you will find descriptions or videos for trimming.

Try to gather as much information as you can. Not all DYI guys are actually providing the most accurate or best information. Better to make sure that you are hearing a consistent message. (HaHa, except for me of course!)

Your brakes will definitely have to be coded so that the car uses the appropriate front/rear brake bias. You can still drive after installation but it won't be at its optimal setting.

Unfortunately it's not a BimmerCode type of coding. I haven't seen it done, only described. It's as simple as adding the brake option code such as "S2NHA" (code for M Sport Brakes) to a list of what the car has installed. But you need the appropriate application and connection and obviously need to know what you are doing.

It turned out that I didn't need to be recoded when I upgraded from 340/330 to 340/345, or when I upgraded again from 340/345 to 370/345. I was told that BMW codes this all at the M Sport level. But I've been told that F30 upgrades from lower brakes definitely need coding. By asking around on local BMW forums I was able to find a couple local guys who would have coded for me if needed. They both told me that I didn't need it. They said it would have only taken a few minutes.

Just use stock BMW brake fluid. No need for any different unless you are tracking the car which can have requirements such as a specific level of fluid within the past six months. You really should use a pressure bleeder to avoid getting air into the system. Otherwise you will have no choice but to pay a dealer or Indy to do it with that ABS vibration method. I just remembered that I have a brand new German pressure bleeder on my shelf that I've never used. I was going to bleed mine but decided to let an Indy who was installing my LSD to just swap my brakes at the same time. You are welcome to it at half price if you want. See photo.

Hope this helps!
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      11-30-2021, 11:32 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnung View Post
You don't provide any details about what year or model car you have? Do you already understand what parts are needed and just want to understand the installation? Or need advice on both? I've done a couple brake upgrades so I understand the issues.

There can be caveats on what parts are needed depending on which car you are starting with. Do you have 17" wheels or 18" wheels? The brakes are dependent on which size wheels because the largest only fit under 18" wheels.

Watch the Kies Motorsports videos where Bryan replaces brake rotors and pads. That's essentially the installation part. Again with some caveats.

Google "Kies Motorsports brake rotors videos"
You really need to watch Kies (or kids') video with a grain of salt.
Double check it with your BMW service manual to verify the steps.

In his video, 2 important steps were skipped or altered:
1. using a brake pedal depressor is recommended, so it will stop the brake fluid bleeding. The stopper is OK but it will continue to bleed when you remove the stopper.
2. you SHOULD remove the brake hose connected to the caliper . The threads to the caliper are flared and they cross thread easily. Installing or uninstalling the caliper without removing the brake line runs a high risk of messing up the thread on the hose and/or the caliper. Don't ask me how I know.
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      11-30-2021, 12:54 PM   #8
johnung
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrivingPassion View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnung View Post
You don't provide any details about what year or model car you have? Do you already understand what parts are needed and just want to understand the installation? Or need advice on both? I've done a couple brake upgrades so I understand the issues.

There can be caveats on what parts are needed depending on which car you are starting with. Do you have 17" wheels or 18" wheels? The brakes are dependent on which size wheels because the largest only fit under 18" wheels.

Watch the Kies Motorsports videos where Bryan replaces brake rotors and pads. That's essentially the installation part. Again with some caveats.

Google "Kies Motorsports brake rotors videos"
You really need to watch Kies (or kids') video with a grain of salt.
Double check it with your BMW service manual to verify the steps.

In his video, 2 important steps were skipped or altered:
1. using a brake pedal depressor is recommended, so it will stop the brake fluid bleeding. The stopper is OK but it will continue to bleed when you remove the stopper.
2. you SHOULD remove the brake hose connected to the caliper . The threads to the caliper are flared and they cross thread easily. Installing or uninstalling the caliper without removing the brake line runs a high risk of messing up the thread on the hose and/or the caliper. Don't ask me how I know.
Wow, my two year old post. Glad it's still making the rounds! 😀

You make some good points. I've seen Bryan depress the brake pedal on his subsequent brake videos.

The brake line connections can be delicate. My experienced BMW Indy shop mechanic avoids disconnecting a brake hose from the back of caliper while it's on the car. He disconnects the other end and then puts the caliper on a workbench to remove the brake hose and install a new stainless steel brake line.

I don't get too concerned about completely stoppering the old brake fluid except to prevent a mess. Usually if brake work is being done it's time for a complete brake fluid replacement and factory bleed procedure, which should be done every two years for safety.
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